LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

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kennethcadwell

Guest
This is what Jesus said of the Pharisees:

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. Matt23:2&3

Would you like to state if you uphold all of Christ's commandments, bearing in mind your opening comments?

The Pharisees taught the law, which is what the Lord is saying to those at that point because the new covenant had not yet be instituted by His crucifixion. So those He was speaking to where still under the old covenant with the Mosaic laws preached. Jesus was telling them to obey the laws they taught, but do not do as they did because they used the law for greed, power, self recognition, and self righteousness.

Instead of repeating yourself and trying to make or catch others into stating things you want them stated, turn and put more focus on loving and trusting in His words. You still walk as the Apostles did early in their faith with doubt and misunderstanding on how the Lord our God with His Holy Spirit will guide you to walk in love and obedience.
You still doubt His ability and are still basing things on your own understanding if you put limitations on God and the Holy Spirit. Remember the bible says their will be some who will profess a form of godliness, but will deny the power there of. This is exactly what is going on today by those who preach against what He is, can, and will do in our lives.
 
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The_highwayman

Guest
its a thread where many of us have been debating the issue of law and grace for days now...should we not be allowed to have a debate on a topic and try to keep the topic in view? I think that's generally the rule on these forums?
The issue is you are not debating in any of your topics....once again I will state this to you...

The day you figure out you are not the Holy Spirit is the day the Spirit of Truth will come upon you...

DO you accuse your pastors and people in your church this way too?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
The issue is you are not debating in any of your topics....once again I will state this to you...

The day you figure out you are not the Holy Spirit is the day the Spirit of Truth will come upon you...

DO you accuse your pastors and people in your church this way too?
Do you have any points on the issue of the thread?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be obedient to God, the problem for those who claim to honor and keep the legal code of the law is that they are not being honest about their obedience and the true standard they are claiming to keep? If one really hears and believes the law they will see that its can only be kept through the Spirit by faith and love, that the flesh is completely unable to keep even the first commandment of God. In this they reject the testimony of the law and the testimony of the gospel.
Honesty is a hard thing for some...to be honest about our own flesh and admit "that nothing good lives in me, that is my flesh" is a divine revelation that only the Holy Spirit can show a person. Those who see good in themselves are often very angry that their law-keeping is a abomination to God and He will not accept the flesh of any man.

Its is written all our righteousness is as filthy rags...it didn't say all are sin...its says all our goodness before God is filthy before Him.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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The Pharisees taught the law, which is what the Lord is saying to those at that point because the new covenant had not yet be instituted by His crucifixion. So those He was speaking to where still under the old covenant with the Mosaic laws preached. Jesus was telling them to obey the laws they taught, but do not do as they did because they used the law for greed, power, self recognition, and self righteousness.

Instead of repeating yourself and trying to make or catch others into stating things you want them stated, turn and put more focus on loving and trusting in His words. You still walk as the Apostles did early in their faith with doubt and misunderstanding on how the Lord our God with His Holy Spirit will guide you to walk in love and obedience.
You still doubt His ability and are still basing things on your own understanding if you put limitations on God and the Holy Spirit. Remember the bible says their will be some who will profess a form of godliness, but will deny the power there of. This is exactly what is going on today by those who preach against what He is, can, and will do in our lives.

How do you know you walk in more love and obedience than me? Who is putting limitations on God and His Holy Spirit?

It isn't a case of trying to catch anyone out. Just emphasising that it is easy to preach, but far harder it seems to put that preaching into practise.

It is good people see that, then they will not be so crushed by the demands of others
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
Mit ...

I think we need this on this thread.


Troll_B_Gone.jpg
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
How do you know you walk in more love and obedience than me? Who is putting limitations on God and His Holy Spirit?

It isn't a case of trying to catch anyone out. Just emphasising that it is easy to preach, but far harder it seems to put that preaching into practise.

It is good people see that, then they will not be so crushed by the demands of others


You put limitations on God if you tell others we still can not live up to His commands, even though He is in our lives doing the working in and through us.
The Lord can not deny Himself is what Paul says in 2 Timothy 2:13, so if we allow Him to do the working in us how can He have us continue in sin or disobedience ? That would be Him denying His own teachings.

I admit that we alone can not live up to His commands and teachings, but there is a greater hope and message that we are not alone. He is with us, in us, and guides us to confirm our lives to His righteousness.
People have been bending and confirming His teachings to the world, instead of doing what was intended for us to move away from the world and confirm to His teachings and commands.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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You put limitations on God if you tell others we still can not live up to His commands, even though He is in our lives doing the working in and through us.
The Lord can not deny Himself is what Paul says in 2 Timothy 2:13, so if we allow Him to do the working in us how can He have us continue in sin or disobedience ? That would be Him denying His own teachings.

I admit that we alone can not live up to His commands and teachings, but there is a greater hope and message that we are not alone. He is with us, in us, and guides us to confirm our lives to His righteousness.
People have been bending and confirming His teachings to the world, instead of doing what was intended for us to move away from the world and confirm to His teachings and commands.
If you are not obeying all of Christ's commands I imagine you believe you are living in sin and disobedience according to what you write.

For myself, I believe Christ's teaching has a central theme of love God and love your neighbour, and his teaching is examples of that. Paul of course knew that, hence:

Carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ Gal 6:2

But according to your view, I imagine you must daily confess your sins in respect of not fully obeying Christ's commands as otherwise you will lose your justification before God
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
If you are not obeying all of Christ's commands I imagine you believe you are living in sin and disobedience according to what you write.

For myself, I believe Christ's teaching has a central theme of love God and love your neighbour, and his teaching is examples of that. Paul of course knew that, hence:

Carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ Gal 6:2

But according to your view, I imagine you must daily confess your sins in respect of not fully obeying Christ's commands as otherwise you will lose your justification before God


We must take the whole bible, and all the scriptures into account as Paul did preach on baptism and confession.
1 John 1:9 does say we have to confess our sins, when we do sin again to be forgiven and cleansed of that sin. The bible nowhere teaches the false teaching getting thrown widely around that your future sins are automatically forgiven and covered at the time you accepted Christ.
Peter in 2 Peter 1:9 and Paul in Romans 3:25 both say only past sins for forgiven at our conversion, and 1 John gives the answer on how future sins are forgiven by confessing them. These are God's words through the writings of the Apostles, not mine.

This leads to exactly what I was saying before, as people are confirming the word to fit their ways and wants instead of confirming themselves to the Lord's ways. It is easier for those who love their lives to twist His words to fit their life, then to change their life to fit His standards. Lord Jesus clearly says do not love this world or the things in this world, as He was making a point that if you love this world and its things more then Him then you can not fully give your self to Him. Only those who take up their (cross) issues and give them completely to Him to take care of will be His disciples.

Being a disciple means a student and follower of that Teacher, but some have lost sight on the following part...........
 
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The_highwayman

Guest
Do you have any points on the issue of the thread?
DO you have any? or are you just going to continue vomiting back milk you call meat?
 
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Sophia

Guest
The Grace of God, given to us through the shed Blood of Christ,
is sufficient to cover all our sins, and grants us righteousness in the sight of God.
Repentance, confession, and pursuing holiness is a right attitude,
but is not what maintains your salvation. When we "right our hearts before the Lord", it is dealing with our motivation. Are we pursuing sin, or holiness?
When we do good works, is it for the sake of good works, or the sake of Christ?
Are we motivated by fear or by love? - God uses both, but once we are in Christ, we live in love.
Fear of wrath is for the unbeliever, to turn them to God.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
DO you have any? or are you just going to continue vomiting back milk you call meat?
Well just debate the issue according to scripture and not by making personal attacks and lets see if this milk is from God :)

Your right in a way that obedience in faith and love is true obedience and legalism is just hypocrisy, should be very basic teaching!
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Let me try to explain it this way to some....
If I don't steal because Gods Spirit has caused me to love and in that love I look to give and not take...
But someone under the law is trying to justify themselves by not stealing, yet in their heart they covet what others have?
and they don't love.....Who is God pleased with?
Try to bring this point forward...God is not looking for obedience based on keeping a written rule of the law...He is looking for obedience based upon the New heart of Love He has given to those who are His Children.

"I will write My Law upon their hearts, and I will cause them to walk in My ways"
1Jo 4:7 ¶ Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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We must take the whole bible, and all the scriptures into account as Paul did preach on baptism and confession.
1 John 1:9 does say we have to confess our sins, when we do sin again to be forgiven and cleansed of that sin. The bible nowhere teaches the false teaching getting thrown widely around that your future sins are automatically forgiven and covered at the time you accepted Christ.
Peter in 2 Peter 1:9 and Paul in Romans 3:25 both say only past sins for forgiven at our conversion, and 1 John gives the answer on how future sins are forgiven by confessing them. These are God's words through the writings of the Apostles, not mine.

This leads to exactly what I was saying before, as people are confirming the word to fit their ways and wants instead of confirming themselves to the Lord's ways. It is easier for those who love their lives to twist His words to fit their life, then to change their life to fit His standards. Lord Jesus clearly says do not love this world or the things in this world, as He was making a point that if you love this world and its things more then Him then you can not fully give your self to Him. Only those who take up their (cross) issues and give them completely to Him to take care of will be His disciples.

Being a disciple means a student and follower of that Teacher, but some have lost sight on the following part...........
Here we have the problem that leaves many churches half empty, others lacking the power available and people believing they are shut out of the kingdom. Jesus not just die to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion. You have to stop just believing what a minister tells you(or infers) or your notions of what sounds correct to your natural reasoning. God does not reason as man does. If Jesus only died to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, the Christian MUST live under a law of righteousness before God, can you not see that?

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom 3:20-22

The Christian has a righteousness before God APART from works of the law(or observing the law) When you observe the law you do not sin. Therefore, if you have a righteousness before God apart from observing the law, you have a righteousness before God that does not depend on your sin. Therefore Jesus did not just die at Calvary to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, he died for all your sin. To emphasise the point:

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[SUP][e][/SUP] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[SUP][ Rom 1:17

[/SUP]That righteousness is from first to last, the whole of your Christian life.

I do not set aside the grace of God, if righteousness could be gained through the law Christ died for nothing Gal 2:21

If Jesus only died to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, you are under a righteousness before God of obedience to the law, either you obey the law or you are condemned.

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP][a][/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith Phil3:9

And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all Heb10:10

But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy Heb 10:13&14

I hope you get into the new covenant, most do not accept it who go to church sadly. But biblically speaking, it is the only way to overcome sin.

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace(through faith in Christ Rom 6:14

If Jesus died only to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, you do live under the law, and you can only be righteous in God's sight/justified by obedience to it once saved.

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say ''the old is better''
Luke 5:39
 
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Feb 5, 2015
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We must take the whole bible, and all the scriptures into account as Paul did preach on baptism and confession.
1 John 1:9 does say we have to confess our sins, when we do sin again to be forgiven and cleansed of that sin. The bible nowhere teaches the false teaching getting thrown widely around that your future sins are automatically forgiven and covered at the time you accepted Christ.
Peter in 2 Peter 1:9 and Paul in Romans 3:25 both say only past sins for forgiven at our conversion, and 1 John gives the answer on how future sins are forgiven by confessing them. These are God's words through the writings of the Apostles, not mine.

This leads to exactly what I was saying before, as people are confirming the word to fit their ways and wants instead of confirming themselves to the Lord's ways. It is easier for those who love their lives to twist His words to fit their life, then to change their life to fit His standards. Lord Jesus clearly says do not love this world or the things in this world, as He was making a point that if you love this world and its things more then Him then you can not fully give your self to Him. Only those who take up their (cross) issues and give them completely to Him to take care of will be His disciples.

Being a disciple means a student and follower of that Teacher, but some have lost sight on the following part...........
BTW

Romans 3:25 is referring to people who lived before Christ walked this earth. No one could attain to Heaven without his sacrifice at Calvary, for no one was TRULY righteous under the law, for they could not perfectly obey it
 
Jan 25, 2015
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What do you do, just ignore the whole of The New Testament?

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Not at all, I never said that... but you are trying to ignore the old testament my friend. And you still couldn't answer the question why a God that is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow will change His mind about his word. The Bible teaches us that Yeshua is the Word. So was he confused in the Old Testament? I don't think.

The law cannot save you but it shows you the character of the God you serve. It is like you saying I am an American but I am not going to adhere to the traffic laws of the country because my dad is a judge and he has got a "get out of jail free" card.

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.