Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Truth7t7]

You claim that one is a parable, I don't, I interpret them literally.

They are separate judgements.

One takes place before the 1000 years begin.

The other takes place after the 1000 years and after the final battle where Satan is released.

There is only one future judgement of all, it takes place when Jesus Christ returns, just as Matthew 25:31-46 teaches, that will result in the wicked to the Lake of Fire, and the righteous into Eternal Life, in the Eternal Kingdom

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Truth7t7]

You claim that one is a parable, I don't, I interpret them literally.

A "Parable" is a simplified teaching of a literal event that will take place in the great white throne judgement, it appears your ignorant of this fact

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Again... Rev19:21 "remnant were SLAIN":


Keep in mind the word "PIT" (from the PARALLEL PASSAGE Isa24:21-22a, quoted in my previous post) used like the following:

Isaiah 38:18 -
"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."

Ezekiel 28:8 -
"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."

Ezekiel 31:14 -
"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."



[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]

 

[Truth7t7]

^ The point in time that that Matt25:31-34 (and context) passage is referring to, is parallel to the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in the Isaiah 24:21-22[23] passage, quoted below:

21 In that day the LORD will punish [1]

the host of heaven above

and the kings of the earth below [/kings of the earth upon the earth; Parallel with Rev19:19,21 "remnant were SLAIN" / 16:14-16 / 20:5]

22 They will be gathered together

like prisoners in a pit.

They will be confined to a dungeon/prison

and [2] punished after many days. [aka "after the MK age"; at the LATER GWTj in Rev20:11-15]




23 The moon will be confounded

and the sun will be ashamed;

for the LORD of Hosts will reign

on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,

and before His elders with great glory. [that is, while they are "shut up in the prison / gathered in a pit" (during the 1000 yrs)]

Chaos in distraction

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[i.e. "THE DEAD" that Rev20:11-15 GWTj speaks of... along with "the dead [/unsaved]" of ALL TIMES]

 

[Guojing]

A "Parable" is a simplified teaching of a literal event that will take place in the great white throne judgement, it appears your ignorant of this fact

Guess you have yet to learn that, just because you believe in something, does not make that something a fact.

It is your opinion, your interpretation, which you are of course entitled to have.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

They are separate judgements.

One takes place before the 1000 years begin.

The other takes place after the 1000 years and after the final battle where Satan is released.

Correct.

Before the 1000 years begin, Satan is "shut up in the prison".

After the 1000 years are concluded, Satan is "loosed out from his prison"




[the "Amill-teachings" disregard nearly all of the timing and chronology issues, deeming it as unimportant "fluff"]

 

[Truth7t7]

[i.e. "THE DEAD" that Rev20:11-15 GWTj speaks of... along with "the dead [/unsaved]" of ALL TIMES]

The Great White Throne Judgement Seen Below

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

TheDivineWatermark said:
[i.e. "THE DEAD" that Rev20:11-15 GWTj speaks of... along with "the dead [/unsaved]" of ALL TIMES]

The Great White Throne Judgement Seen Below
Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

At the GWTj, it says, "I saw the DEAD small and great stand before God..." and "the sea gave up the DEAD which were in it..." and "death and hell delivered up the DEAD which were in them...," would you say this pertains to the "resurrection OF JUDGMENT" (as opposed to "resurrection OF LIFE")? IOW, the "dead [/unsaved]" are being "resurrected" for this particular "judgment" (aka "cast into the lake of fire"), right? Meaning, they had been physically dead (as well as "unsaved / lost")... but now at this GWTj will participate in "resurrection of JUDGMENT" (to be: "cast into the lake of fire").



Well, in the Matt25:31-34 passage and context (Sheep and goat judgment of the nations [/Gentiles]), no one is being "resurrected" from the dead (same as in the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 parallel passage). They are all "still-living" persons at the time-slot being referenced (same time-slot referred to as found in Matt19:28--a verse showing what is subsequent to this point in the chronology).

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What I can't explain is whether any of the motrals who survive the trib will believe during Christ's reign. If so, do they receive resurrection bodies, and when?

We gentiles who are saved now are in the Body of Christ, so we are Christian, but not Jews. We will receive a redeemed body and will be living in the heaven during the 1000 years.

I read Rev 20 literally. And this doesn't address my question.

Gentiles who will be saved during the Tribulation, are not in the Body of Christ. If they are deemed to be sheep during Matthew 25:31-46, they will be living on Earth during the same 1000 years in their earthly bodies.

I have to disagree. EVERYONE who believes in Christ for salvation (the only way to be saved) "belong to Him" (1 Cor 15:23) and will be part of the FIRST resurrection (Rev 20:5). That means both Jews and Gentiles.

In fact EVERY saved person from Adam through the final believer in human history ALL "belong to Him".

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The human mortals are the ones who have survived the Trib. Do you think every unbeliever was destroyed by the end of the Trib? Why?

Why do you defy the simple words of God, that you have been shown "Several Times"?

I asked a question and you give a silly non answer. What I defy is your spritualized fantasies.

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Uh, excuse me, but this already occurred, way back in Genesis. And yes, all of S & G were destroyed.

And all unbelievers wlll be destroyed after the GWT judgment in Rev 20:15.

Or have you spritualized the GWT as well?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Truth7t7 said:
A "Parable" is a simplified teaching of a literal event that will take place in the great white throne judgement, it appears your ignorant of this fact

Guess you have yet to learn that, just because you believe in something, does not make that something a fact.

It is your opinion, your interpretation, which you are of course entitled to have.

I would add 'fantasy' to the list.

 

[Jordan]

I will add further Scriptures as the thread progresses. There are some interesting OT verses that hint at the Rapture.

https://barrysetterfield.org/Rapture.html

1 Thess 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come.

2 Thess 1:6-8
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
and to give YOU who are troubled REST with us WHEN the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
in flaming fire taking vengeance (which is the purpose of the GT......a purpose not accorded to the Bride) on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord, doesnt deliver us from the fire, but puts us into the fire to make us truly wwhite and pure. {Purely HIS under fire. He doesnt like cop outs, but the brave and courageous thru HIM. The wrath p[eriod after the rapture is different than the wrath quoted above, know the difference IMO

 

[Jordan]

Exactly many people survive, and populate the Earth for the Millinium ruled by the LORD

 

[Guojing]

FreeGrace2 said:
What I can't explain is whether any of the motrals who survive the trib will believe during Christ's reign. If so, do they receive resurrection bodies, and when?

I read Rev 20 literally. And this doesn't address my question.


I have to disagree. EVERYONE who believes in Christ for salvation (the only way to be saved) "belong to Him" (1 Cor 15:23) and will be part of the FIRST resurrection (Rev 20:5). That means both Jews and Gentiles.

In fact EVERY saved person from Adam through the final believer in human history ALL "belong to Him".

How do you think the earth will be populated during the 1000 year reign? Who will form the group of people that will be deceived by Satan after he is released during the 1000 years?

If everyone who believes in the Tribulation are in the Body of Christ and have redeemed bodies, then no one will be available for Satan to deceive later on.

 

[Truth7t7]

FreeGrace2 said:
Uh, excuse me, but this already occurred, way back in Genesis. And yes, all of S & G were destroyed.

You defy the simple words of God below, ignoring the truth of the Lords destruction at his return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Jordan]

How do you think the earth will be populated during the 1000 year reign? Who will form the group of people that will be deceived by Satan after he is released during the 1000 years?

If everyone who believes in the Tribulation are in the Body of Christ and have redeemed bodies, then no one will be available for Satan to deceive later on.

Well said, logical and scripturial

 

[Absolutely]

The Lord, doesnt deliver us from the fire, but puts us into the fire to make us truly wwhite and pure. {Purely HIS under fire. He doesnt like cop outs, but the brave and courageous thru HIM. The wrath p[eriod after the rapture is different than the wrath quoted above, know the difference IMO

Not true.
The 3 hebrew children said their God was able to deliver them and He did.
Lot was delivered and never saw the city burn. HE ESCAPED.
The baby Jesus was gathered up PRIOR to the slaughter and removed.
Noah left the earth over a mile into the first heaven and was sage in the ark ( ark is a type of heaven)....DURING THE FLOOD.
( NO REMOVAL AFTER THE FLOOD)
Every rapture verse are peacetime.
No rapture verse in a postrib setting ( destroyed earth, famine,with the ac chasing down those refusing the mark.)
Nope every rapture verse is peacetime and without a doubt pretrib.

Btw my challenge for years is ..." Show me a postrib rapture verse"

No takers.

Maybe you know of one.

Lot....pretrib
Noah....pretrib
One taken/left...pretrib
10 virgins....pretrib
Baby Jesus removed to egypt...pretrib

 

[Absolutely]

Well said, logical and scripturial

YES
Plenty of mortals survive the trib after the pretrib rapture and the Jewish belivers raptured in rev 14.

 

[Absolutely]

You openly state there will be a future Millennial Kingdom on earth, with mortal wicked humans present?

By all means, please show me where this Literal Kingdom on this earth is found, with mortal humans present for 1,000 years, waiting

Jesus Is Gonna Redeem The Earth, By (Fire)!

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Great case you made for a pretrib rapture and postrib return with the saints in power.

Thanks