Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Ahwatukee]

there’s no distinction between Jew and gentile your idea is flawed what Jesus offered israel is exactly what he offers us until the end the gospel is our inclusion into the kingdom promosed all along

Jew and gentile are
No different to God

There are different groups.

The church = made up of both Jew and Gentile believers

The Nation of Israel = Do not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, yet.

The 144,000 = The first fruits of believing Israelites, who will come out of unbelieving Israel

The great tribulation saints = A group of Gentiles who will become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath.

It is unbelieving Israel whom God is going to deal with during the tribulation, fulfilling that last seven years of the seventy sevens that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, as proclaimed in Daniel 9:24-27

 

[cv5]

when people have no good argument , they begin to look for petty insults , then it just declines from there I’ve learned

Yup it's declining alright. Definitely declining. But not due to the efforts of the sincere posters on this thread that's for certain.

 

[ewq1938]

Yup it's declining alright. Definitely declining. But not due to the efforts of the sincere posters on this thread that's for certain.

You are the one who used a petty insult. You are part of the declining process the other member was speaking about.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is just a diversion from what I have revealed to you. I gave you all the scriptures. So if you truly believe the scriptures, then you will be believe what I have presented because I got the information from them.



That is false! Anyone reading along with these posts can see that I answered every one of your questions. Please provide one question that you asked that I did not answer.



The only conclusion then, is that you are not reading my responses. CV5 agrees with what I have been telling you.



Are you ready? Here is the answer to what you posted above, so that you can't say that I didn't answer:

The above is from Matt.24:29-31, which is referring to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millenial kingdom. This is not the event of the gathering of the church.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31[/quote]

Here again is my response to what you posted:

Once the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will send out His angels and they will first gather the wicked. Those that are being gathered will be living people who will have made it through the entire wrath of God. This is not, I repeat, not the gathering of the church. Angels do not gather believers when the resurrection takes place and the living are changed.

There will be a group of Gentiles who will become believers after the gathering of the church and during the time of God's wrath, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. The elder tells John that these are those who will have come out of the great tribulation. ‬ ‭[/QUOTE]

yes right those who went through this and overcome


“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If any man have an ear, let him hear.

He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:7-10‬ ‭

believers go through the tribulation , those your seeing I heaven that came out of it were those who believe the gospel and went through the tribulation “ they loved not their lives into death “ they are the people Satan overcame on earth like Paul who was beheaded under order of Nero . He overcame the world because of his belief in Christ and his dedication to walking in truth while he lives in this world but Paul had a crown of righteousness awaiting him in the heavenly kingdom of God and he knew it he didn’t shrink back from the tribulation he pressed on in faith and was killed for it , but Paul is alove
And well he just hasn’t received his new body for the new earth yet .

everyone must die but for the last generation of church members that’s a fact from Peter and Paul to you and I unless he comes back before we part this world .

You and I will both die many Christians will suffer terribly in this world some have diseases terrible ones but believers keep faith and they receive the promises after they go through the world

the church in the end times will be much like today the world will be happening and then there he will
Be. Revelation is a spiritual book I think fundamentally people think it’s a tangeqble predictor and timeline of the future I don’t agree but we’ve done this before

I mean no offense I am frustrated about something totally unrelated to this I sincerely apologize for
Any bad tone I sent , but I just don’t agree with your views , I think that’s ok and it’s very okay if you don’t hold
My views I’m good with it no lingering issues

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yup it's declining alright. Definitely declining. But not due to the efforts of the sincere posters on this thread that's for certain.

Yup it's declining alright. Definitely declining. But not due to the efforts of the sincere posters on this thread that's for certain.

sure I agree , there are people here sincerely looking to discuss scripture with others and some who seem to want to convince people not to actually
Learn and believe the scripture I try to post a lot of scripture that actually shares what is there hoping to discuss it and really really really hoping someone would think to add scriptures to their thoughts and ideas because it’s necessary for me I don’t follow the dictionaries and everything theological words ect but I do follow what scripture says I wish people would add some to the discussion

 

[Truth7t7]

The first resurrection does not mean 'only resurrection.' It is first in relation to the resurrection which takes place at the end of the thousand years. The first resurrection will take place in phases or stages:

* Jesus the first fruits - Already took place

* The Church at His appearing - Is about to take place

* The two witnesses - Takes place in the middle of the seven years

* The male child/144,000 - Takes place in the middle of the seven years

* The great tribulation saints - Takes place after Jesus returns to the earth to end the age

* There will also be a resurrection of the OT saints of Israel

The first resurrection made up in stages, are in opposition to the resurrection of the unrighteous dead which takes place at the end of the thousand years at the great white throne judgment. Those who take part in the first resurrection, the second death has not power over them. It is those who take part in the resurrection at the great white throne judgement that the second death has power over.

Scripture Clearly States Your Claim Of Multiple Resurrections Is (False)

There Is "One" Future Resurrection Of "All", This Takes Place On "The Last Day" At The Time Of "Final Judgement"

(The Last Day Resurrection, Judgement)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The Last Day Resurrection)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(The Last Day Judgement)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[ewq1938]

There Is "One" Future Resurrection Of "All",

No, scripture says there are two resurrections:

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"



What we learn from both verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt.

 

[GaryA]

What you have said here is mostly true, but it is not the full picture. There really is more to it than that.

I will plan to elaborate and explain later - I do not have enough time now.

The following is copied from previous posts of mine:

2 Peter 3:7-13 is actually describing a 1000-year span of time that is the Second Coming of Christ (including the 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth).

ALL of the things mentioned in the passage - to the ultimate extent that is described - do not occur on the very first day when Christ appears.

Of course, there definitely will be some serious "burning" take place when Christ appears (at the beginning of His 1000-year reign). However, the complete destruction of the old heaven and earth do not take place until after the 1000 years.

This is made known to us to help us to understand it properly by/in verse 8. It is telling us that "the day of the Lord" is both - 1000 years - and - the first day of that 1000 years.

All of the things described in 2 Peter 3:10 do not happen immediately upon the Second Coming of Christ. Verse 8 in that chapter is telling us that - in the context of that passage - the 'day' it refers to is actually 1000 years in length. Some of the things described occur at the end of that 'day' - at the end of the 1000-year reign of Christ.

The earth is not "totally destroyed" until the end of that 'day' - the 1000 years - before the new heaven and the new earth are put in place.

 

[Absolutely]

please explain how Rev 14 refutes my view. And your last statement is patently false. I don't have what you falsely claim.

But go ahead and explain yourself please.

I already did
You can not have the living PRECEDE the dead in Christ.

Your doctrine does just that

Rev 14 forever ruins any hope you have for the church to go through the gt.

Impossible.

 

[Truth7t7]

You completely failed to apprehend the point that I was making.
And it was pertinent. Very much so.

Let me put it this way: A scholarly messianic Jew has a leg up on a gentile believer any day of the week. Like it or not believe it or not. We gentiles are grafted onto the olive tree Rom 11:24.
Never ever forget that.

Does that include the majority of Jews that are adherents of the (Kabbalah) Occult and the (Talmud) traditional Rabbinical teachings, full of filth concerning Jesus Christ and Gentiles (Goyim)?

So much for your claims of a person being chosen, based upon race or ethnic heritage!

 

[Truth7t7]

No, scripture says there are two resurrections:

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

First resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"



What we learn from both verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt.

I fully agree, as I stated

"ONE" future resurrection of all, and I posted John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2 is its parallel teaching.

I have went into great detail explaining this

Yes there are "Two" resurrections on "The Last Day" as I posted this "Many Times" the righteous "First" the wicked "Second"

There are not multiple different resurrections as many claim, there is "One" of "All" on "The Last Day" at the "Final Judgement"

 

[Truth7t7]

The following is copied from previous posts of mine:

2 Peter 3:7-13 is actually describing a 1000-year span of time that is the Second Coming of Christ (including the 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth).

ALL of the things mentioned in the passage - to the ultimate extent that is described - do not occur on the very first day when Christ appears.

Of course, there definitely will be some serious "burning" take place when Christ appears (at the beginning of His 1000-year reign). However, the complete destruction of the old heaven and earth do not take place until after the 1000 years.

This is made known to us to help us to understand it properly by/in verse 8. It is telling us that "the day of the Lord" is both - 1000 years - and - the first day of that 1000 years.

All of the things described in 2 Peter 3:10 do not happen immediately upon the Second Coming of Christ. Verse 8 in that chapter is telling us that - in the context of that passage - the 'day' it refers to is actually 1000 years in length. Some of the things described occur at the end of that 'day' - at the end of the 1000-year reign of Christ.

The earth is not "totally destroyed" until the end of that 'day' - the 1000 years - before the new heaven and the new earth are put in place.

2 Peter 3:8 below is showing nothing more than there is no physical earthly time in the Lords eternal spiritual realm, Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in this spiritual realm of no literal time

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[ewq1938]

"ONE" future resurrection of all

No, that is wrong. There are TWO future resurrections.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, that is wrong. There are TWO future resurrections.

There is "one" future resurrection of "all" on the last day, where the end result is in two different places.

It's all yours, not gonna argue over the minor issue concerning "the last day" and resurrection of "All"

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[ewq1938]

There are still two different resurrections and they don't happen on the same day either.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first.

"The rest of the dead lived not again" until after the thousand years means they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.

There is "one" future resurrection of "all" on the last day, where the end result is in two different places.

It's all yours, not gonna argue over the minor issue concerning "the last day" and resurrection of "All"

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Truth7t7]

There are still two different resurrections and they don't happen on the same day either.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first.

"The rest of the dead lived not again" until after the thousand years means they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.

I strongly disagree

"All That Are In The Graves"!

There is one future resurrection of "All" that have lived, and this takes place at the same time, on (The Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

There will be no 1,000 year Millennial kingdom on this earth, the Lord (Dissolves) this earth by fire at his appearance in the second coming

There Is "One" Future Resurrection Of "All", This Takes Place On "The Last Day" At The Time Of "Final Judgement"

(The Last Day Resurrection, Judgement)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The Last Day Resurrection)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(The Last Day Judgement)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

There are still two different resurrections and they don't happen on the same day either.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first.

"The rest of the dead lived not again" until after the thousand years means they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[ewq1938]

There will be no 1,000 year Millennial kingdom on this earth

You apparently don't even know your own doctrine very well since Amillennialism teaches that the Millennium is happening right now on the Earth. Amillennialism is wrong about it happening now but at least it understands a Millennium does in fact happen on the Earth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You completely failed to apprehend the point that I was making.
And it was pertinent. Very much so.

Let me put it this way: A scholarly messianic Jew has a leg up on a gentile believer any day of the week. Like it or not believe it or not. We gentiles are grafted onto the olive tree Rom 11:24.
Never ever forget that.

lol like what or not ? It’s as if you have no acknowledgement of the things in the gospel do you know anything about the Holy Spirit ? Or what spiritual gifts are ? Why they are the order of the church ect ?

I totally disagree I don’t think being a Jew has anything to do with it I think God chooses people for things and race has zero to do with anything

this isn’t an intellectual thing , it’s a Jesus thing if someone wants understanding Jew or gentile (as if that is even a thing in Christ ) anyone who wants to understand should pray for that and seek his word

it doesn’t matter Jew or gentile that’s my own view I don’t “not like” what you said I disagree that the flesh of a Jew or gentile has anything to do with it anymore it’s now solely faith

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This is just a diversion from what I have revealed to you. I gave you all the scriptures. So if you truly believe the scriptures, then you will be believe what I have presented because I got the information from them.



That is false! Anyone reading along with these posts can see that I answered every one of your questions. Please provide one question that you asked that I did not answer.



The only conclusion then, is that you are not reading my responses. CV5 agrees with what I have been telling you.



Are you ready? Here is the answer to what you posted above, so that you can't say that I didn't answer:

The above is from Matt.24:29-31, which is referring to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millenial kingdom. This is not the event of the gathering of the church.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31[/quote]

Here again is my response to what you posted:

Once the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will send out His angels and they will first gather the wicked. Those that are being gathered will be living people who will have made it through the entire wrath of God. This is not, I repeat, not the gathering of the church. Angels do not gather believers when the resurrection takes place and the living are changed.

There will be a group of Gentiles who will become believers after the gathering of the church and during the time of God's wrath, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. The elder tells John that these are those who will have come out of the great tribulation. ‬ ‭[/QUOTE]

yes again I’ve read it twice and disagree with your interpretations , again no offenses intended. I just don’t agree with your interpretations there’s too
Many scriptures explaining other things

again not an intended offense but we just don’t agree I know for sure after I think maybe the third time we have had this discussion about the rapture that you believe fully you are 100 percent correct about this

I’m simply telling you I disagree with that conclusion on this matter only
And not every point the rapture part I don’t think you understand like you think you do but it’s okay I don’t think it’s worth continually debating you because we kind of have stated our positions several times

I respect and aprreciste you I just don’t agree I don’t think you have it quite as figured out as you are
Convinced