"3. 2 Thess 2:1 shows that the "gathering" follows the Second Coming."
I disagree, in that, I believe the Subject of verse 1 is SOLELY about "our Rapture" and its timing (that is, when we are "SNATCHED UP" to "
our episynagoges UNTO HIM" [
IN THE AIR])
No to you. The verse speaks of "the coming of our Lord". That the SECOND Coming. There are 2 of them. First Advent when He came to earth, born of a virgin and went to the cross. Second Advent is when He returns (the second time) as King of kings, and Lord of lords, to reign for 1,000 years, before the GWT judgment.
Okay... so we're up to
POINT #3... whoo!
Hmmm... I covered that in past posts (somewhere)... that even in what we call Jesus' FIRST advent, there was:
--Micah 5:2 speaks of the
COMING FORTH at Bethlehem,
--and Zechariah 9:9 speaks of the
COMING UNTO Jerusalem.
...which one of these two passages speak of it (coming/advent)?
Or do both of them speak of His "First Advent" happenings?
--one being His "BIRTH" ['[out of you (Bethlehem) to Me] SHALL COME FORTH'];
--the other being what took place on the very day that the "69 Weeks" CONCLUDED [on Palm Sunday and what is commonly called 'the Triumphal Entry'],
when He
SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing [parallel the wording in both Lk21:20,23 and Matt22:7 (re: the 70ad events)],
and when He
DID the Zech9:9 thing ['thy King
COMETH UNTO *thee* [speaking of Jerusalem / the city]'])
--
Micah 5:2 -
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah,
though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee
SHALL HE COME FORTH unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth
have been from of old, from everlasting."
--
Zechariah 9:9 - [see also Lk19:41-44 and context]
"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of
Jerusalem: behold, thy King
COMETH UNTO thee: he
is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."
____________
As for your other idea (about "there are 2 of them" and "SECOND"), I'm going to guess you've gotten this idea from Hebrews 9:28, right?
Well, I made a post about that, some time back:
[quoting old post]
[Response to the idea that
Heb9:28 refers to how Jesus
only comes at His Second Coming
to the earth, not
a separate time for our Rapture ('
IN THE AIR')--But
Heb9:28 refers to neither of these,
as I see it, when we consider the following...]
From
Hebrews 9:28 (where the
"passive" form of
G3708 ['appear'] is used)... out of the
684 occurrences of "G3708," TEN times that "[G3708] appear [
PASSIVE]" is used
regarding Jesus, and
ALL TEN of them refer events taking place
AFTER His death/resurrection (and it was only to carefully chosen witnesses, not to every person everywhere).
Of those 10x,
5x it refers to the 40-day interval
between His resurrection and His later "VISIBLE" ascension [specifically, "he was taken up"] in Acts 1 [note: however, His earlier "[active] I ascend" having taken place ON Firstfruit His Resurrection Day, after speaking with Mary Magdalene, in John 20:17, where He had said to her, "Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and SAY UNTO THEM [i.e verbal testimony], I ascend [active] unto My Father and your Father; and
to My God, and your God."
Whereas later that SAME EVENING (per Lk24:33,36,39 and context), He tells the disciples who were gathered together, in v.39 (something now
the opposite from what He'd earlier-in-the-day said to MM), now "HANDLE ME, and see...". And preceding this late evening setting, an earlier scene (approaching "toward evening" per v.29) reports Him to have "VANISHED out from their sight" (<--speaking of the "2 walkers on the road to Emmaus" when they had "sat at meat" together, per vv.29-31);
...so (without listing them)
these 5x where "G3708 passive" is used of Him,
all 5 of these are shown to be speaking of His
"post-resurrection appearances" ON THE EARTH (
over the course of some "40 days") in the presence of carefully chosen witnesses, in His resurrected Body:
--(and even the word "appeared [G5316] FIRST unto MM," per Mark 16:9, is not one of these "G3708" mentions [like Heb9:28 is speaking of in particular], so this is not among the 5 occurrences "G3708 passive" is speaking of, there);
--
the main thing I want to point out here, is that, within those "40 days" [during which, the "
5 mentions of G3708 passive" took place, re: Jesus], John 21:14 informs us "This is now the
THIRD TIME that Jesus showed Himself to His disciples, after that He was risen from the dead."
So MULTIPLE times, over the course of a "40-day period" was this the case.
--
the OTHER 5 occurrences (of "G3708 passive" when speaking of Jesus) ALL took place
AFTER HIS "VISIBLE" ascension took place in Acts 1;
--
so ALL 5 of *THESE* mentions took place [
whilst in His position]
"FROM HEAVEN" (
AFTER His visible ascension, thus some time AFTER the 40-day period;
ALL of *THESE* 5 mentions are speaking of when He appeared unto Paul
from His position "FROM HEAVEN" after having visibly ascended before His disciples in Acts 1);
--
so my main overall point being:
...
NOT ONE of those "10 occurrences of 'G3708 passive' [re: Jesus]" speaks of ANYTHING regarding the events BEFORE His death on the Cross, during the time of His earthly ministry (of 3.5 yrs or however long that was).
NONE of those TEN "mentions" speak OF THAT.
...ALL TEN speak of what took place FOLLOWING His resurrection (and FIVE of them speak of events occurring FOLLOWING His visible ascension in Acts 1, AFTER those "40 days" and "FROM HEAVEN"); AND this "G3708 passive" (re: Jesus)
was NOT LIMITED to only "ONE TIME" ONLY, but MULTIPLE times, thus I believe the argument being put forth falls flat, as I see it.
Hebrews 9:28 [and note, this is the epistle to the Hebrews] -
"
so also Christ, having been offered once in order to bear the sins of [the] many,
will appear [G3708 passive] for a second time apart from sin[/I],...
[the FIRST time "
He appeared apart from sin" was spoken of in those 10 mentions, ALL FOLLOWING His death/resurrection; at least one version puts it like, "
a second time apart from a sin-offering shall appear [G3708 passive]" (note: the FIRST time "
apart from a sin-offering" that He "appeared [G3708 passive (like Heb9:28 is speaking of)]" was ALL FOLLOWING His death/resurrection, and five of those 10 "mentions" was FOLLOWING His ascension in Acts 1, so "FROM HEAVEN" (these 5 mentions in particular are found in Paul's epistles, speaking of his/Paul's own experience)]
...
to those awaiting Him for salvation."
[again,
5x (mentions) was referring to His post-resurrection tangible appearances to His disciples/carefully-chosen-witnesses (and
not speaking of merely a "ONE TIME" happening);...
...5x (mentions) was referring to His post-ascension (Acts1
later ascension), the
"FROM HEAVEN" one (so a separate one still, from the others)]
That particular "argument" remains wholly unconvincing to me, for these reasons.
[end quoting old post]
__________
[try harder??]
