LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,195
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You say that you still understand the subject the same as previously, but you keep making statements that are simply not based in Scripture.

"Even illerate (sic) men became preachers in New Testament times." Really? Which verse tells you that?

"I don't see that the order for women not to preach or teach publicly...." Which order is that? It doesn't exist. Paul says to Timothy, "I suffer not a woman to teach or to usurp authority over a man." Nothing about "preaching"; nothing about "publicly", and nothing about teaching others.

"The woman at the well - for example - didn't preach or teach publicly." Really? John 4:28-29 says, "So the woman left her waterpot, and went in to the city and said to the men, "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ, is it?" That looks like "preaching publicly" to me.

Maybe it's time to examine what you believe in light of what Scripture actually says instead of adding words and making up a belief that is "sorta like" what Scripture says. :)

The woman in that parable represents the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church. Having drank of the "living water" of eternal life (gospel). A result of hearing the words of the father spoken by His prophet and apostle Jesus. She was moved by faith working in her (not of her)

God who knows the hearts of all men as words of prophecy then with her new tongue (the gospel) She preached in a hope that our Saviors labor of love or work of faith would also empower those who heard the message. That they would also believe as a anchor of living hope.

Call no man or woman on earth. Teacher, Master Rabbi no man can serve two Good Masters as one Lord.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,523
7,833
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The woman in that parable represents the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church. Having drank of the "living water" of eternal life (gospel). A result of hearing the words of the father spoken by His prophet and apostle Jesus. She was moved by faith working in her (not of her)

God who knows the hearts of all men as words of prophecy then with her new tongue (the gospel) She preached in a hope that our Saviors labor of love or work of faith would also empower those who heard the message. That they would also believe as a anchor of living hope.

Call no man or woman on earth. Teacher, Master Rabbi no man can serve two Good Masters as one Lord.
Paul's words to Timothy absolutely are not a parable. They absolutely do not refer to "the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church."

Also,

PLEASE TAKE A CLASS IN BASIC ENGLISH.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
15,195
1,424
113
Paul's words to Timothy absolutely are not a parable. They absolutely do not refer to "the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church."

Also,

PLEASE TAKE A CLASS IN BASIC ENGLISH.
Paul acting as a surrogate mother of us all (the free woman) .labored in pains of birth with a living hope Christ would be formed in him just as Christ was formed in Paul, by faith the unseen eternal not seen.

This was so he signified a mother could present Timothy as a member of the chaste virgin bride the church . Without parables Christ spoke not.

Will you learn how to rightly divide the parables .They teach us how to walk by faith(the unseen eternal) . God's name is Jealous he will not share his power to create anew with those who live in a body of death.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
1,394
440
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1 Corinthians 14:35 is about the husband and wife relationship - marriage.

1 Corinthians 14:35 is addressing women with learned believing husbands.
An unbelieving husband could not answer his wife questions. An unlearned husband could not answer his wife's questions.

There is no verse in the Bible instructing unmarried women to go home and ask their fathers. God In his infinite wisdom could have inspired men to write such a verse into scripture, but he did not.

Telling unmarried women to go home and ask their fathers is presumptuous.
It presumes that the unmarried woman's father is a learned believer. Many fathers are not devout Christians. They don't study the bible or attend church. Many fathers are not believers at all.

Timothy learned about the faith from his grandmother Lois and his mother Eunice
2 Tim 1:5

Telling an unmarried woman to go home and ask her father also presumes that the unmarried woman still lives under the same roof as her father. Not all unmarried women still live under the same roof as their father for any number of reasons.

Some unmarried women's fathers have passed away.

Some unmarried women's fathers have left the home in search of greener pastures (trading the wife in for a newer model).

Telling unmarried women to ask their male pastor or elder has proven problematic on more than one occasion. There have been numerous scandals about pastors and elders involved in extra marital affairs with women that they were supposedly teaching or counseling. Billy Graham was aware of this problem, and he set a personal boundary for himself known as the Billy Graham rule. Billy Graham never met with women, who were not his wife, alone.

Billy Graham's grandson, pastor Tullian Tchividjian, failed to follow his grandfather's example and has been involved in extra-marital affairs and church scandal.
A Man is the leader in the Church and His Home, this is plain biblical teaching.
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
634
213
43
A Man is the leader in the Church and His Home, this is plain biblical teaching.
The biggest issue is men are called to lead as Jesus lead, but most men who insist on the right to lead want to lead as a sovereign. That's not the type of leadership Jesus showed, such as in John 13 where He took on a role so lowly that it was seen as unfit for anyone but a house servant. So if you want to be the leader then you must place those under your cares needs above your own and serve.

And that's the rub which is apparent that the men who demand the right to lead expect their women to serve them and cater to their needs.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
1,394
440
83
The biggest issue is men are called to lead as Jesus lead, but most men who insist on the right to lead want to lead as a sovereign. That's not the type of leadership Jesus showed, such as in John 13 where He took on a role so lowly that it was seen as unfit for anyone but a house servant. So if you want to be the leader then you must place those under your cares needs above your own and serve.

And that's the rub which is apparent that the men who demand the right to lead expect their women to serve them and cater to their needs.
Ephesians 5:22-29KJV
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
 

Bbrdrd

Active member
Apr 2, 2020
634
213
43
Ephesians 5:22-29KJV
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Yep, as men are called to Christ-like service towards their wives. Christ loved the church not simply by giving Himself but by serving our needs.

That is very different from what most men who only read 5:22-23 try to enforce since they want to sit on high and have their needs catered to.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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440
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Yep, as men are called to Christ-like service towards their wives. Christ loved the church not simply by giving Himself but by serving our needs.

That is very different from what most men who only read 5:22-23 try to enforce since they want to sit on high and have their needs catered to.
My wife Cooks food, washes my feet, hand feeds me fruit as I sit by the pool, waving a palm branch to keep me cool?












Then I woke up from my dream, to the shouts of why aren't the dishes done :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,523
7,833
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Paul acting as a surrogate mother of us all (the free woman) .labored in pains of birth with a living hope Christ would be formed in him just as Christ was formed in Paul, by faith the unseen eternal not seen.
No. Paul was talking about a literal flesh-and-blood woman. You would see this if you read the verse as plain text instead of assuming that it was a parable. It isn't. Paul wrote, "I do not permit a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man." If "a woman" referred to the bride of Christ, how would "I don't permit the Church to teach or usurp authority over a man" make any sense at all?

This was so he signified a mother could present Timothy as a member of the chaste virgin bride the church .
Please learn proper English grammar. This is gobbledegook.

Without parables Christ spoke not.
Your willful ignorance of context is amazing.

Will you learn how to rightly divide the parables .They teach us how to walk by faith(the unseen eternal) . God's name is Jealous he will not share his power to create anew with those who live in a body of death.
Meaningless blather.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,031
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Again?? Hasn't this topic been flogged to death already?

Some really bad interpretations here. First authentein, which is rendered "usurp authority" in the KJV, and similar things is not translated correctly. Authentein is a verb, an infinitive. So to translate it to a verb AND a noun, does not work. As I have noted before, the translators of the KJV only had 7 corrupt manuscripts, the many versions available today did not exist, nor contemporaneous material.

This is very important, because authentein is a hapax legomena which means this word appears only once in the entire version. In most cases, by looking at the same words that appear elsewhere in the Bible, the meanings of unusual words can be figured out using those same words that appear elsewhere.

Hapax Legomena cannot be compared to any word elsewhere in the Bible. So you have to look at documents which were written around the same time as 1 Timothy was written. This could be anything from a shopping list to a Greek tragedy play to military instructions.

Turns out this unusual word is used 50 different ways in material written at that time. With a huge variance from usurp authority to murder, or to domineer. So, at best, a guess is the only way to figure out what the word authentein should be translated as. Another factor is looking at which translation appears most often. It is translated more as "to domineer!"

So, a woman is not to domineer, fits better as it is an infinitive, just like authentein. Further, Paul knows and uses the word "authority" many times in Scripture. The word is exousia ἐξουσία. A good example is Romans 13:1-2, where he uses the word 4 times in 2 verses.

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves." Romans 13:1-2

In fact, exousia ἐξουσία, is used 80 times in the NT, by many different authors, making the word very common. If Paul wanted to emphasize "authority," he should have used exousia. But he did not! Instead he used a word only found ONCE in the Bible, because he did NOT want it to mean authority. Again, "to domineer" is a much better choice. Because a woman should not dominate a man. Or vice versa! We need to treat each other with respect, without roles, or hierarchies!

"instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph 5:18b-21

Here, it clearly says believers are to submit one to another, out of reverence for Christ. So, men submit to other men and women. Women submit to other women and men. Why? Out of reverence to Christ.

As for the next verses, big translational issues!

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord." Eph 5:22

That should settle the matter in plain English, right? Except the word "submit" doesn't even appear in Greek!

"Αἱ γυναῖκες τοῖς ἰδίοις ἀνδράσιν ὡς τῷ κυρίῳ," Eph 5:22.

The word submit or ὑποτασσόμενοι which is in verse 21 is not there at all! Greek is much better to use than any English translation.

Finally, when a rabbi took students, they were to learn in silence. Debating the rabbi, was frowned upon. Students had to wait years sometimes before they could ask questions or express opinions. To be a rabbinical student was a great honour. The same for a woman! Saying she was to learn in silence was a great honour for a woman. It meant she was able to learn at the feet of great spiritual leaders. Women did not become students in first century Israel, Greece or Rome. Yet, Paul gives them the right to learn, which is an unheard of thing, before that time. Paul honoured women by allowing them to learn in silence like a rabbinical student.

It's called context, knowing the history of the time and culture, and not reading into the Bible 21st century ideas and standards!
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,422
1,371
113
LOL! Of all the things to focus on in that pic, you noticed the abs??!! That's funny. So I take it you're not a fan of Michelangelo? You like some Peter Paul Rubens better?

Does Angela call herself a pastor (or deacon or anything like that)? Or is she just someone who talks with you about Jesus?

My contention is that a woman can not be a conservative preacher of Christianity unless she's a total hypocrite. She must do some fancy interpreting of scripture in order to justify her role as a pastor. And that fancy interpretation comes from a liberal Christian viewpoint. Furthermore liberal Christianity has quite a bit of correlation to leftist social/political views. So you wind up going to church for some Christianity, but you get there and just get a big dose of gay pride. No thanks.
Even if she says she is a pastor what point what that be to you other than you to say she is a hypocrite?
Angela would never promote the gay pride you speak of you have no room to be speaking about her when you don't even know her.
I am sorry you had a bad experience with a women pastor but don't assume all are like that
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,031
2,176
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Oops! I forgot about 1 Tim 2:14

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." 1 Tim 2:14

So this definitely blames women for sin entering the world, right?

Except it is ignoring other declarations in the Bible!

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come." Romans 5:12-14

Adam was the first sinner! Sin entered the world through one man, Adam. If you go back and look chronologically at Genesis 1-3, you will see God gives Adam his instructions BEFORE Eve is created. So either Adam did a lousy job of communicating the rules to Eve, or didn't tell her at all. So Eve was deceived, but Adam is clearly the foundation of sin.

So which is right? Did sin enter the world through Adam, as in Romans 5, or was it Eve in 1 Tim 2? I would say BOTH are right. Because "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!" Romans 3:23

It really makes me mad at the ignorance of some people who cherry pick verses, using 1 Tim 2:14, and somehow forgetting Romans 5:12-14 clearly says Adam brought sin into the world.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,422
1,371
113
Again?? Hasn't this topic been flogged to death already?

Some really bad interpretations here. First authentein, which is rendered "usurp authority" in the KJV, and similar things is not translated correctly. Authentein is a verb, an infinitive. So to translate it to a verb AND a noun, does not work. As I have noted before, the translators of the KJV only had 7 corrupt manuscripts, the many versions available today did not exist, nor contemporaneous material.

This is very important, because authentein is a hapax legomena which means this word appears only once in the entire version. In most cases, by looking at the same words that appear elsewhere in the Bible, the meanings of unusual words can be figured out using those same words that appear elsewhere.

Hapax Legomena cannot be compared to any word elsewhere in the Bible. So you have to look at documents which were written around the same time as 1 Timothy was written. This could be anything from a shopping list to a Greek tragedy play to military instructions.

Turns out this unusual word is used 50 different ways in material written at that time. With a huge variance from usurp authority to murder, or to domineer. So, at best, a guess is the only way to figure out what the word authentein should be translated as. Another factor is looking at which translation appears most often. It is translated more as "to domineer!"

So, a woman is not to domineer, fits better as it is an infinitive, just like authentein. Further, Paul knows and uses the word "authority" many times in Scripture. The word is exousia ἐξουσία. A good example is Romans 13:1-2, where he uses the word 4 times in 2 verses.

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves." Romans 13:1-2

In fact, exousia ἐξουσία, is used 80 times in the NT, by many different authors, making the word very common. If Paul wanted to emphasize "authority," he should have used exousia. But he did not! Instead he used a word only found ONCE in the Bible, because he did NOT want it to mean authority. Again, "to domineer" is a much better choice. Because a woman should not dominate a man. Or vice versa! We need to treat each other with respect, without roles, or hierarchies!

"instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph 5:18b-21

Here, it clearly says believers are to submit one to another, out of reverence for Christ. So, men submit to other men and women. Women submit to other women and men. Why? Out of reverence to Christ.

As for the next verses, big translational issues!

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord." Eph 5:22

That should settle the matter in plain English, right? Except the word "submit" doesn't even appear in Greek!

"Αἱ γυναῖκες τοῖς ἰδίοις ἀνδράσιν ὡς τῷ κυρίῳ," Eph 5:22.

The word submit or ὑποτασσόμενοι which is in verse 21 is not there at all! Greek is much better to use than any English translation.

Finally, when a rabbi took students, they were to learn in silence. Debating the rabbi, was frowned upon. Students had to wait years sometimes before they could ask questions or express opinions. To be a rabbinical student was a great honour. The same for a woman! Saying she was to learn in silence was a great honour for a woman. It meant she was able to learn at the feet of great spiritual leaders. Women did not become students in first century Israel, Greece or Rome. Yet, Paul gives them the right to learn, which is an unheard of thing, before that time. Paul honoured women by allowing them to learn in silence like a rabbinical student.

It's called context, knowing the history of the time and culture, and not reading into the Bible 21st century ideas and standards!
Wow you really did your homework once again I am very impressed
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
1,394
440
83
Again?? Hasn't this topic been flogged to death already?

Some really bad interpretations here. First authentein, which is rendered "usurp authority" in the KJV, and similar things is not translated correctly. Authentein is a verb, an infinitive. So to translate it to a verb AND a noun, does not work. As I have noted before, the translators of the KJV only had 7 corrupt manuscripts, the many versions available today did not exist, nor contemporaneous material.

This is very important, because authentein is a hapax legomena which means this word appears only once in the entire version. In most cases, by looking at the same words that appear elsewhere in the Bible, the meanings of unusual words can be figured out using those same words that appear elsewhere.

Hapax Legomena cannot be compared to any word elsewhere in the Bible. So you have to look at documents which were written around the same time as 1 Timothy was written. This could be anything from a shopping list to a Greek tragedy play to military instructions.

Turns out this unusual word is used 50 different ways in material written at that time. With a huge variance from usurp authority to murder, or to domineer. So, at best, a guess is the only way to figure out what the word authentein should be translated as. Another factor is looking at which translation appears most often. It is translated more as "to domineer!"

So, a woman is not to domineer, fits better as it is an infinitive, just like authentein. Further, Paul knows and uses the word "authority" many times in Scripture. The word is exousia ἐξουσία. A good example is Romans 13:1-2, where he uses the word 4 times in 2 verses.

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves." Romans 13:1-2

In fact, exousia ἐξουσία, is used 80 times in the NT, by many different authors, making the word very common. If Paul wanted to emphasize "authority," he should have used exousia. But he did not! Instead he used a word only found ONCE in the Bible, because he did NOT want it to mean authority. Again, "to domineer" is a much better choice. Because a woman should not dominate a man. Or vice versa! We need to treat each other with respect, without roles, or hierarchies!

"instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." Eph 5:18b-21

Here, it clearly says believers are to submit one to another, out of reverence for Christ. So, men submit to other men and women. Women submit to other women and men. Why? Out of reverence to Christ.

As for the next verses, big translational issues!

"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord." Eph 5:22

That should settle the matter in plain English, right? Except the word "submit" doesn't even appear in Greek!

"Αἱ γυναῖκες τοῖς ἰδίοις ἀνδράσιν ὡς τῷ κυρίῳ," Eph 5:22.

The word submit or ὑποτασσόμενοι which is in verse 21 is not there at all! Greek is much better to use than any English translation.

Finally, when a rabbi took students, they were to learn in silence. Debating the rabbi, was frowned upon. Students had to wait years sometimes before they could ask questions or express opinions. To be a rabbinical student was a great honour. The same for a woman! Saying she was to learn in silence was a great honour for a woman. It meant she was able to learn at the feet of great spiritual leaders. Women did not become students in first century Israel, Greece or Rome. Yet, Paul gives them the right to learn, which is an unheard of thing, before that time. Paul honoured women by allowing them to learn in silence like a rabbinical student.

It's called context, knowing the history of the time and culture, and not reading into the Bible 21st century ideas and standards!
For 409 years the KJV has been wrong? :)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
1,394
440
83
Oops! I forgot about 1 Tim 2:14

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." 1 Tim 2:14

So this definitely blames women for sin entering the world, right?

Except it is ignoring other declarations in the Bible!

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come." Romans 5:12-14

Adam was the first sinner! Sin entered the world through one man, Adam. If you go back and look chronologically at Genesis 1-3, you will see God gives Adam his instructions BEFORE Eve is created. So either Adam did a lousy job of communicating the rules to Eve, or didn't tell her at all. So Eve was deceived, but Adam is clearly the foundation of sin.

So which is right? Did sin enter the world through Adam, as in Romans 5, or was it Eve in 1 Tim 2? I would say BOTH are right. Because "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!" Romans 3:23

It really makes me mad at the ignorance of some people who cherry pick verses, using 1 Tim 2:14, and somehow forgetting Romans 5:12-14 clearly says Adam brought sin into the world.
It's amazing how (You Cherry Pick) and leave out the very words of the original sin :eek:

The Bible is (Very Clear) the serpent deceived the (Woman)

Genesis 3:9-19KJV
9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
7,678
2,770
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sssh I am trying to learn. But everyone keeps arguing about other stuff. sigh.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,523
7,833
113
LOL! Of all the things to focus on in that pic, you noticed the abs??!! That's funny. So I take it you're not a fan of Michelangelo? You like some Peter Paul Rubens better?

Does Angela call herself a pastor (or deacon or anything like that)? Or is she just someone who talks with you about Jesus?

My contention is that a woman can not be a conservative preacher of Christianity unless she's a total hypocrite. She must do some fancy interpreting of scripture in order to justify her role as a pastor. And that fancy interpretation comes from a liberal Christian viewpoint. Furthermore liberal Christianity has quite a bit of correlation to leftist social/political views. So you wind up going to church for some Christianity, but you get there and just get a big dose of gay pride. No thanks.
You can contend all you like, but can you back up your contentions with Scripture? No. There isn't a single verse of Scripture in the entire Bible that precludes a woman from being a pastor. If you think there is, then quote it.

Clearly you know nothing about Angela. Therefore, keep your ignorant, prejudicial opinions about her to yourself.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,523
7,833
113
Phoebe a female wasn't a Deacon in the Church, that would be your adding to the scripture.

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a man and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Phoebe was indeed a deacon; there is no sound reason (except a priori belief) to translate the word "servant" instead of "deacon". As she was a deacon, 1 Timothy 3:2 and 12 must be talking about polygamy, not the gender of the prospective leaders.