Losing Salvation

[PurerInHeart]

You are not saved until you get baptized. (Obeying the gospel). Only those IN Christ are saved, and baptism is how we get into Christ (Romans 6:3).

"With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who (1) know not God and (2) obey not the gospel of His Son (be baptized into Christ).

 

[Magenta]

You can't be alive without the spirit; and you don't receive the spirit unless you obey him; and you can't receive the spirit except by faith.

If we can't be alive without the Spirit, and only believers have the Spirit, is everyone else dead? Or simply dead in their sins, and in need of Spiritual regeneration? I see a big difference. Being born again of the Spirit is a work of the Holy Spirit of God administered by Jesus Christ, just as John the Baptist proclaimed according to all four gospels. Faith is a gift from God.

 

[nowyouseem033]

obedience is evident of a heart transformed. not of a heart yet to be transformed. otherwise if so then your obedience wouldn't be coming out of your ne nature because you have not received that yet. it would be coming out of your old sinful nature. lol the same nature that loves darkness rather than light

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

You can't be alive without the spirit; and you don't receive the spirit unless you obey him; and you can't receive the spirit except by faith.

And we are witnesses of these things, and [so is] the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” Acts 5:32

that too is a very interesting statement. I have question for you who grieves the Holy Spirit ?

We were given the Holy Spirit when we believe in Christ. To obey the gospel and believe in what Christ has done is obeying God in answer to the poster you are responding to.

Grieving the Holy Spirit to me is seen in Ephesians.....not walking in the below scripture. Not speaking words of grace and having bitterness, wrath, slander, malice, etc. - these all grieve the Holy Spirit within us.

Ephesians 4:29-32 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.



​

 

[CS1]

God is not double minded on the subject. Gods love does not waiver. Jesus left the glory that was His in heaven to come to Calvary to redeem us how then would He allow us again to depart from Him?

Sound biblical disciplship requires us to search out the difference between salvation and sanctification. The Holy Spirit of God can only lead us into the truth. The Holy Spirit never leads away from Christ.

Scripture teaches that believers know if they are saved. Those that know would never consider going back to their prior state. If one does not know or if one considers getting unsaved to be a good thing well then they have serious issues between them and God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

As i stated one will only read into the issue as they see it in hopes to attack those who they think are not inline with their understanding . read the first line of my post again please :0

 

[Grace777x70]

Huh never heard that before fourth time saved..
nor have I heard of God looking for ways to keep people away from him. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this statement..

I know.....I was just being facetious. ...

 

[PurerInHeart]

when you obey the gospel you ARE a christian

If you are not a Christian before you obeyed, then obeying makes you become a Christian, and now you're a Christian, cause you obeyed.

 

[nowyouseem033]

No, faith in the gospel is obedience.

​Now to the one who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that had been kept secret for eternal ages, but now has been revealed, and through the prophetic scriptures has been made known according to the command of the eternal God, resulting in obedience of faith to all the Gentiles, Romans 16:25-26​

lol again its not saying obedience to faith its obedience of faith. its not obedience to become a Christian, its obedience of a Christian. afterall understand WHO PAUL IS TALKING TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CS1]

Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead

You can't be alive without the spirit; and you don't receive the spirit unless you obey him; and you can't receive the spirit except by faith.

And we are witnesses of these things, and [so is] the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.” Acts 5:32



We were given the Holy Spirit when we believe in Christ. To obey the gospel and believe in what Christ has done is obeying God in answer to the poster you are responding to.

Grieving the Holy Spirit to me is seen in Ephesians.....not walking in the below scripture. Not speaking words of grace and having bitterness, wrath, slander, malice, etc. - these all grieve the Holy Spirit within us.

Ephesians 4:29-32 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

[SUP]31 [/SUP] Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.



​

thank you for responding Grac777x70 so i will ask you then
the verses you posted who is it speaking to ? and who is it that grieves The Holy Spirit I know the action they cause the Holy Spirit to be grieved and I say amen. But who is doing the greieving?

 

[Magenta]

Adam and Eve were promised death, were expelled from the garden, and had the Tree of Life barred from them that they might not eat from it, and yet they lived presumably for centuries afterwards. Did they have the Spirit? Or does God sustain people even without the Spirit? Given that everything is held together by Jesus Christ, in Whom we live and move and have our being, it would seem evident that even the Spiritually dead are held in Christ, until Spiritual rebirth occurs. Are we not then sealed in Him as inheritors of the promises God made?

 

[gb9]

If you are not a Christian before you obeyed, then obeying makes you become a Christian, and now you're a Christian, cause you obeyed.

no mam, dead wrong. you become a Christian when you BELIEVE the Gospel. John 3.

 

[notuptome]

You are not saved until you get baptized. (Obeying the gospel). Only those IN Christ are saved, and baptism is how we get into Christ (Romans 6:3).

"With flames of fire He will take vengeance on those who (1) know not God and (2) obey not the gospel of His Son (be baptized into Christ).

How does a dead man get baptized?

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Baptism as you knowit can only happen after salvation by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PurerInHeart]

obedience is evident of a heart transformed. not of a heart yet to be transformed. otherwise if so then your obedience wouldn't be coming out of your ne nature because you have not received that yet. it would be coming out of your old sinful nature. lol the same nature that loves darkness rather than light

Our transformation is an ongoing process, otherwise He wouldn't tell us to hold to what we've obtained thus far. A baby isn't born an adult, we constantly grow in Christ, and whatever does not grow dies.

 

[Grace777x70]

thank you for responding Grac777x70 so i will ask you then
the verses you posted who is it speaking to ? and who is it that grieves The Holy Spirit I know the action they cause the Holy Spirit to be grieved and I say amen. But who is doing the greieving?

The verses were to the Ephesians.. Christians grieve the Holy Spirit when we act unbecomingly to who we really are in Christ. When we do deeds according to the flesh.

It's interesting that the word "grieve" in Ephesians 4 is used of Jesus in Mark 3:5 where He was "grieved" at the hardness of people's hearts for not wanting to extend grace when Jesus wanted to heal a man on the Sabbath. Instead the religious group wanted their man-made traditions observed.

Perhaps what you are looking for is in that scripture too?

 

[nowyouseem033]

Our transformation is an ongoing process, otherwise He wouldn't tell us to hold to what we've obtained thus far. A baby isn't born an adult, we constantly grow in Christ, and whatever does not grow dies.

well done... you have finally made a distinction between sanctification (ongoing process) and salvation (once died for all).

but of course you never knew those distinctions until now, because you don't read the bible in its CONTEXT

 

[PurerInHeart]

How does a dead man get baptized?

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Baptism as you knowit can only happen after salvation by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So if you are saying that we are saved before baptism, that would mean that baptism does not save, because you would already be saved at that point, if that were true. Problem is, if that were true, that would make God out to be a liar when he says, baptism doth also now save you." God says baptism saves.

Look at Paul. Did believing save him? Did believing wash away his sins? No. Did fasting? No. Did praying? No. Ananias said to him, "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized and wash away your sins- which is calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[hornetguy]

If Salvation is based on not sinning then yes we can lose our Salvation by sinning.

If Salvation is based on being Baptized then yes we would need to be re-baptized again.

HeRoseFromTheDead does teach and believe we receive Salvation by being Baptized. Therefore every time we sin and lose our Salvation one does have to be Baptized again if one believes we receive Salvation by Baptism!

All those who teach Baptism is required for Salvation NEED to have themselves re-baptized to receive Salvation again.

Every time you sin ,HeRoseFromTheDead, and lose your Salvation you NEED to be Baptized again in order to receive your Salvation again.

Have you been re-baptized HeRoseFromTheDead? IF not, then you really do not believe we receive Salvation by Baptism!

IF Faith + Grace + Baptism = Salvation then every time you sin you need Faith + Grace + Baptism to receive Salvation again!

Actually, that is NOT what HRFTD believes, if I understand his posts correctly.
The salvation through baptism is a one time event... it's when you get saved.
After that, we are under God's grace and constant forgiveness, which cannot be "lost".....

It can be willfully forfeited, or given up, but it cannot be lost through our sinful self's sins.

 

[notuptome]

As i stated one will only read into the issue as they see it in hopes to attack those who they think are not inline with their understanding . read the first line of my post again please :0

I got that but someone must teach them the correct doctrine and refute error. Allowing them to continue is to agree with them.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[nowyouseem033]

Our transformation is an ongoing process, otherwise He wouldn't tell us to hold to what we've obtained thus far. A baby isn't born an adult, we constantly grow in Christ, and whatever does not grow dies.

oh and yes we cannot birth ourselves, only God can make us born again.

lol try the application of a baby being born through its obedience... gimme a break and read John 8 in CONTEXT

because the baby becomes born by its obedience hahaha

 

[Grace777x70]

How does a dead man get baptized?

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Baptism as you knowit can only happen after salvation by grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen..

There is obviously a difference between being water baptized and being baptized into the body of Christ when a person believes. Some people get this mixed up as the water baptism is representative of what already happened to us when we believed in Christ.

Here is a scripture that shows the word "baptized" does not always mean water. It's a representative of being baptized into Moses and this was not being immersed in water in Moses.

1 Corinthians 10:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;


Acts 10 shows this perfectly as they did receive the Holy Spirit after they believed in Christ. Then they were water baptized. Eph. 1:13 shows this as well.