Loss of salvation???

[Genez]

I guess my point was that it could just be them walking in the flesh as opposed to walking in the Spirit. To say that every person who rejects the doctrine of Eternal Security is giving ear to evil spirits is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

OK... take your pick.

Flesh can do it on it's own.

And, at other times evil spirits can try to jump start the flesh.

 

[bluejean_bible]

There is no doubt that evil spirits entice us to indulge the lusts of the flesh, but the lusts of the flesh does not come from evil spirits. The flesh is evil on its own.

For the unredeemed,that is true.

For the Saints, The Elect of God, we know and because Jesus said this, the kingdom of God is within us.

We are houses ,temples, the holy Spirit.

 

[bluejean_bible]

I think I agree with your second statement. What is the point of the first question?

Read your post that I quoted when I asked you that first question. See if you can put an answer together. I was asking you to elaborate on your statement.

 

[Genez]

I guess my point was that it could just be them walking in the flesh as opposed to walking in the Spirit. To say that every person who rejects the doctrine of Eternal Security is giving ear to evil spirits is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

One that stubbornly continues to reject is another story.

The one who keeps coming up with new verses to prove we can lose it to keep believing the lie?
That one most likely is inspired by an evil spirit.

 

[Kroogz]

One that stubbornly continues to reject is another story.

The one who keeps coming up with new verses to prove we can lose it to keep believing the lie?
That one most likely is inspired by an evil spirit.

And this is why we can never really have a mature conversation. 90% of believers are stuck in the milk and their milk has soured.

How does one have fellowship with a loser believer?.....It NEVER gets past salvation. Stuck in the milk.

 

[bluejean_bible]

And this is why we can never really have a mature conversation. 90% of believers are stuck in the milk and their milk has soured.

How does one have fellowship with a loser believer?.....It NEVER gets past salvation. Stuck in the milk.

It's not milk at all. Nothing in the Gospel implies it is revocable. Salvation cannot be lost. As Jesus said.

The idea Salvation can be lost isn't in Scripture. It can't be milk.

More like No Sugar Diet Pepsi.

 

[Kroogz]

It's not milk at all. Nothing in the Gospel implies it is revocable. Salvation cannot be lost. As Jesus said.

The idea Salvation can be lost isn't in Scripture. It can't be milk.

More like No Sugar Diet Pepsi.

The milk of the word is salvation and eternal security.....If these are not set in stone on His foundation. The meat of the word will ALWAYS get mixed with the milk.

The milk has to be metabolized and applied. Christ alone. NEVER perish. NO, ABSOLUTELY NO condemnation in Christ.


We can NOT go onto the meat if the milk is not metabolized and applied.

 

[bluejean_bible]

https://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-milk.html

Question: "What is spiritual milk (1 Peter 2:2)?"

Answer: First Peter 2:2 reads, “Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation.” In the previous verse, Peter had urged his readers to rid themselves of sinful behaviors and the desires of the natural man. As they laid aside “all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind” (verse 1), they were to strive for spiritual milk like babies.

Every nursing mother knows the intensity of babies looking for milk, crying until they are satisfied. Experts have shown that a mother’s milk benefits her baby in many ways, including aiding brain development, promoting healthy weight, and bolstering antibodies (www.healthline.com/health/breastfeeding/11-benefits-of-breastfeeding#benefits-for-you). Peter employs this analogy to convey that, as Christians, our overall spiritual growth and well-being hinge on receiving “pure spiritual milk.” But what exactly is this spiritual milk?

Elsewhere, Scripture uses milk as a metaphor for the basic essentials of the gospel and Christian living. In Hebrews 5:12–14, the writer speaks of milk and solid food to encourage readers to move beyond “the elementary truths of God’s word” (verse 12). Paul likewise references milk in 1 Corinthians 3:1–3 in a rebuke to his immature readers. However, Peter uses the term spiritual milk positively, encouraging his readers to feed continually on it.

The “pure spiritual milk” constitutes God’s complete, special revelation, encapsulated in what we now know as the Bible. Some translations, such as the KJV, render the phrase as the “sincere milk of the word.” The Word can also symbolize Christ (John 1:1–5), implying that our craving should extend to deeper knowledge of Christ and closer fellowship with Him. In essence, growth comes as we feed on the written Word and fellowship with the living Word.

The directive in 1 Peter 2:2 is active and imperative, signifying that it is our responsibility to yearn for pure spiritual milk. We are to read, meditate upon, and study God’s written Word both individually and in the company of fellow believers. We should also engage in communion with the living Word and cultivate a deeper understanding of His person and work. Through these activities, we progress toward becoming more like Jesus in character and conduct. We will “grow up in [our] salvation” (1 Peter 2:2b).

Bible-based sermons are also helpful, as are Christian books and Christ-centered songs. Sound teachers facilitate a deeper understanding of God’s Word and rekindle a zeal for more. Well-written Christian books can provide insight into the knowledge of Christ, while songs enhance fellowship and remind us of the beauty found in Christ.

Peter’s instructions serve as a reminder that what we crave and consume profoundly impacts our spiritual growth. The world’s “milk” is impure and only gratifies our sinful desires. False teachings are, at best, spiritual junk and, at worst, poison. We must hunger for pure, unadulterated spiritual nourishment.

 

[Kroogz]

https://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-milk.html

Question: "What is spiritual milk (1 Peter 2:2)?"

Answer: First Peter 2:2 reads, “Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation.” In the previous verse, Peter had urged his readers to rid themselves of sinful behaviors and the desires of the natural man. As they laid aside “all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind” (verse 1), they were to strive for spiritual milk like babies.

Every nursing mother knows the intensity of babies looking for milk, crying until they are satisfied. Experts have shown that a mother’s milk benefits her baby in many ways, including aiding brain development, promoting healthy weight, and bolstering antibodies (www.healthline.com/health/breastfeeding/11-benefits-of-breastfeeding#benefits-for-you). Peter employs this analogy to convey that, as Christians, our overall spiritual growth and well-being hinge on receiving “pure spiritual milk.” But what exactly is this spiritual milk?

Elsewhere, Scripture uses milk as a metaphor for the basic essentials of the gospel and Christian living. In Hebrews 5:12–14, the writer speaks of milk and solid food to encourage readers to move beyond “the elementary truths of God’s word” (verse 12). Paul likewise references milk in 1 Corinthians 3:1–3 in a rebuke to his immature readers. However, Peter uses the term spiritual milk positively, encouraging his readers to feed continually on it.

The “pure spiritual milk” constitutes God’s complete, special revelation, encapsulated in what we now know as the Bible. Some translations, such as the KJV, render the phrase as the “sincere milk of the word.” The Word can also symbolize Christ (John 1:1–5), implying that our craving should extend to deeper knowledge of Christ and closer fellowship with Him. In essence, growth comes as we feed on the written Word and fellowship with the living Word.

The directive in 1 Peter 2:2 is active and imperative, signifying that it is our responsibility to yearn for pure spiritual milk. We are to read, meditate upon, and study God’s written Word both individually and in the company of fellow believers. We should also engage in communion with the living Word and cultivate a deeper understanding of His person and work. Through these activities, we progress toward becoming more like Jesus in character and conduct. We will “grow up in [our] salvation” (1 Peter 2:2b).

Bible-based sermons are also helpful, as are Christian books and Christ-centered songs. Sound teachers facilitate a deeper understanding of God’s Word and rekindle a zeal for more. Well-written Christian books can provide insight into the knowledge of Christ, while songs enhance fellowship and remind us of the beauty found in Christ.

Peter’s instructions serve as a reminder that what we crave and consume profoundly impacts our spiritual growth. The world’s “milk” is impure and only gratifies our sinful desires. False teachings are, at best, spiritual junk and, at worst, poison. We must hunger for pure, unadulterated spiritual nourishment.

Heb 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Every loser of salvation believer. Every jump out of the hand believer. Every forfeiting salvation believer. Every believer who thinks it is possible to lose eternal life......Heb 5:12 applies to them.

 

[Genez]

And this is why we can never really have a mature conversation. 90% of believers are stuck in the milk and their milk has soured.

How does one have fellowship with a loser believer?.....It NEVER gets past salvation. Stuck in the milk.

And... May they "breast" in peace....

 

[bluejean_bible]

Heb 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the actual words of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Every loser of salvation believer. Every jump out of the hand believer. Every forfeiting salvation believer. Every believer who thinks it is possible to lose eternal life......Heb 5:12 applies to them.

Yes, Hebrews 5 is included in that article.

 

[Beckworth]

The question really is, “Can one lose eternal life?” Well, no - it is ETERNAL life. Also, can we sin too much - too badly? No. God’s way is discipline with His children because He loves them - not condemnation. Also, if we could lose our salvation by sinning, then we are trying to earn our salvation and play the role of Saviour but Jesus is the Saviour, saving us by His powerful grace.

Give these Scriptures a careful read…

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life.” (John 5:24) The one who places their confidence in Jesus alone for salvation becomes the immediate possessor of eternal life - not temporary life.

“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5:13) Clearly we can know that we currently have eternal life.

“There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” (Rom. 8:1)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24)

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.” (Eph. 1:13-14)

“And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.” (Eph. 4:30)

“For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom. 8:38-39) Absolutely nothing can separate us from God’s love. Context reveals this is in respect to the Christian. Simply, nothing can end our relationship with God.

“I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.” (John 10:28-29) Triple protection: in the Son’s hands, Father’s hands, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

“Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory…” (Jude 1:25-25) Onus is seen to be on the Saviour to bring us through to His glory.

“Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.” (Heb. 7:25) Jesus saves us to the uttermost because He is interceding for us!

“Our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful.” (1 Cor. 1:8-9) The Saviour sustains the born again Christian till the end.

“On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not… do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER knew you; depart from me.” (Mat. 7:22-23) Jesus didn’t say, “I once knew you,” but, I never knew you.” In plain words, they hadn’t once been a Christian and then “lost their salvation.” So, it’s not a - now I’m saved - now I’m not - now I am - now I’m not.

“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever BELIEVES in him may have ETERNAL life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever BELIEVES in him should not perish but have ETERNAL life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” (John 3:14-17)

Yes, all of these scriptures say that the faithful believers have eternal life— but that does not prove that a person can’t lose their salvation. I am a faithful believer. I am walking with Christ. I am drawing near to Christ. I have been baptized into Christ. I am assured by these scriptures that I will be saved and have eternal life. But these scriptures are not saying that a person cannot so sin as to be lost. He’s only describing the faithful Christians. He is not even addressing the lost. There are just as many scriptures or MORE that teach that you can lose your salvation.;scriptures that are describing “lost” Christians.

Give these scriptures a careful read:

Exodus 32:33-“Whoever sins against me, I will BLOT HIS NAME OUT OF MY BOOK.

1 Chron. 28:9- “If you forsake Him, He will cast you off.”

Romans 11:20-22-“…toward you goodness “IF”. you CONTINUE in His goodness; otherwise, YOU WILL BE CUT OFF.

I Cor. 10:12- Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he FALL.

Gal. 5:1-4- You are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Hebrews 3:12-Beware BRETHERN (saved), lest there be in you an evil heart if unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.

HEBREWS 2:1- Lest we drift AWAY ( from God).

Revelation 2:10- Be FAITHFUL unto death ( all your life) and you will receive a crown of life.

Hebrews 4:11- …lest anyone FALL.

Hebrews 6:4-6- Those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED (Christian’s), tasted the heavenly gift ( of salvation), have become PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ( saved), and tasted the good word of God (Christian) IF THEY FALL AWAY…” Saved people can fall away.

Hebrews 10:35-39- Do not CAST AWAY your confidence ( salvation)….you need ENDURANCE….BE FAITHFUL….if anyone DRAWS BACK, my soul finds no pleasure in him….THOSE WHO DRAW BACK TO PERDITION.

Hebrews 12:15- lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God.

2 Peter 3:17- LEST YOU FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS., being LED AWAY with the error of the wicked.

2 John 2:18- …that we DO NOT LOSE those things we worked for…

Revelation 3:11- HOLD ON to what you have ) salvation), that no one may TAKE AWAY YOUR CROWN.

Revelation 3:16- God will VOMIT OUT OF HIS MOUTH lukewarm Christians.

Revelation 2:4-5- REMEMBER FROM WHERE YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent.

Col. 1:23-IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH… and are NOT MOVED AWAY FROM… the gospel.

2 Peter 2:20-“If after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of .. Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have KNOWN THE WAY IF RIGHTEOUSNESS than to have known it and TURN AWAY FROM IT…”

19 scriptures ( and this is not all) that teach a child of God can be lost if they do not remain faithful to God. Plus, read the parable of the “list sheep.”

 

[GWH]

Doesn't it say something more like the one who is saved WILL endure to the end. The assumption that our endurance is of our own will and not a blessing from God that we point to when recognized for this endurance to say "this was ALL Him and by His power did I endure, ALL glory to Him".

I don't have a problem with God speaking to us in terms that make sense to the flesh but point to bigger spiritual truths we can't even comprehend until He opens our eyes to them. This is where I find the biggest disconnect between those who put so much stock into the choices we make and just how much a role they play in salvation. Even though most just call me a Calvinist and then tell me I believe we don't have choice and can just put life in neutral, and let Gods plan just "happen".

I call this out as lies and strawmen for a very good reason. I am not a Calvinist and believe nothing like this, and never have. But they will not pay me he respect of listening to what I actually say and responding to that.

It says we have to endure in our faith because in our heads when we are thinking about these things, no matter if we are on a peak or in a valley, this is what we should think on. For me the heart of this debate is not what we should do, or if it's really "us" doing it. It really comes down to who gets the credit/glory/recognition for that choice. I testify it's God that gets it all. That's it. But there are others that seem to disagree and think that we actually have a little claim on that credit and glory for ourselves. I disagree a LOT with this.

No, the "Sour 16" exhort the saved to persevere.

Yes, God should get all glory for gracing sinful humanity with the possibility of eternal joy in heaven.

God opens our eyes to spiritual truth as we learn GW.

The problematic part of Calvinism is the TULIP dogma.

 

[GWH]

https://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-milk.html

Question: "What is spiritual milk (1 Peter 2:2)?"

Answer: First Peter 2:2 reads, “Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation.” In the previous verse, Peter had urged his readers to rid themselves of sinful behaviors and the desires of the natural man. As they laid aside “all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind” (verse 1), they were to strive for spiritual milk like babies.

Every nursing mother knows the intensity of babies looking for milk, crying until they are satisfied. Experts have shown that a mother’s milk benefits her baby in many ways, including aiding brain development, promoting healthy weight, and bolstering antibodies (www.healthline.com/health/breastfeeding/11-benefits-of-breastfeeding#benefits-for-you). Peter employs this analogy to convey that, as Christians, our overall spiritual growth and well-being hinge on receiving “pure spiritual milk.” But what exactly is this spiritual milk?

Elsewhere, Scripture uses milk as a metaphor for the basic essentials of the gospel and Christian living. In Hebrews 5:12–14, the writer speaks of milk and solid food to encourage readers to move beyond “the elementary truths of God’s word” (verse 12). Paul likewise references milk in 1 Corinthians 3:1–3 in a rebuke to his immature readers. However, Peter uses the term spiritual milk positively, encouraging his readers to feed continually on it.

The “pure spiritual milk” constitutes God’s complete, special revelation, encapsulated in what we now know as the Bible. Some translations, such as the KJV, render the phrase as the “sincere milk of the word.” The Word can also symbolize Christ (John 1:1–5), implying that our craving should extend to deeper knowledge of Christ and closer fellowship with Him. In essence, growth comes as we feed on the written Word and fellowship with the living Word.

The directive in 1 Peter 2:2 is active and imperative, signifying that it is our responsibility to yearn for pure spiritual milk. We are to read, meditate upon, and study God’s written Word both individually and in the company of fellow believers. We should also engage in communion with the living Word and cultivate a deeper understanding of His person and work. Through these activities, we progress toward becoming more like Jesus in character and conduct. We will “grow up in [our] salvation” (1 Peter 2:2b).

Bible-based sermons are also helpful, as are Christian books and Christ-centered songs. Sound teachers facilitate a deeper understanding of God’s Word and rekindle a zeal for more. Well-written Christian books can provide insight into the knowledge of Christ, while songs enhance fellowship and remind us of the beauty found in Christ.

Peter’s instructions serve as a reminder that what we crave and consume profoundly impacts our spiritual growth. The world’s “milk” is impure and only gratifies our sinful desires. False teachings are, at best, spiritual junk and, at worst, poison. We must hunger for pure, unadulterated spiritual nourishment.

Re "Elsewhere, Scripture uses milk as a metaphor for the basic essentials of the gospel and Christian living. In Hebrews 5:12–14, the writer speaks of milk and solid food to encourage readers to move beyond “the elementary truths of God’s word” (verse 12). Paul likewise references milk in 1 Corinthians 3:1–3 in a rebuke to his immature readers. However, Peter uses the term spiritual milk positively, encouraging his readers to feed continually on it.": Good catch and complete answer to the question!

 

[homwardbound]

Placing that comment into its correct context?
You will discover that Jesus was directing those words to Jews.
Jews who were not yet in the Church age.

Meaning?
He was speaking prophesy for Jews.

Meaning?
In the return to the age of the Jews (the Great Tribulation) those Jews who endure seven years to the end of the Tribulation
will be saved as they are delivered into the Millennium age.

If we had to do some work to be saved?
The Cross would mean nothing.

This is where rightly dividing the Word is a must.

One chooses and sees new, does not have to do that today in risen Son, chooses to,! given them by Father for them, at least me, a before the cross and an after, thank you
Before the cross, the people were looking forward to the Messiah, when happening, wrote seeing it, after the cross, now placing our trust on Son to Father, as Won (One) for us, me at least. God has done it for us in Son to us by Father having it done to save us all at our failures, we all still do, being in unredeemed bodies, we get to choose to believe God each personally. Not have to as if under Law still, we ar not no more under Law, thanks to God in Son for us all. Those in belief, will see and be new in love to all as Daddy already is and has been from day one of the fall of the first Adam and Eve, in unbelief who ate from that one tree that brought on death to the flesh to us all. God has had mercy ever since, and we can be new and not have too hope anymore as before that cross.
The ones in belief had to do Law perfect, and no one could, before it got done by Son, John 19:30, he fulfilled law and prophets about himself for us all did that as in Hebrews 11 reveals that, to me at least, that states they had not received the promise yet, yet we have people, it might be time to stand in continued belief you think? I think thanks. Col. 1 and 2 states deeply about this done work for us all, Beleive, receive and see new in love and mercy too, thank you

 

[Genez]

Yes, all of these scriptures say that the faithful believers have eternal life— but that does not prove that a person can’t lose their salvation. I am a faithful believer. I am walking with Christ. I am drawing near to Christ. I have been baptized into Christ. I am assured by these scriptures that I will be saved and have eternal life. But these scriptures are not saying that a person cannot so sin as to be lost. He’s only describing the faithful Christians. He is not even addressing the lost. There are just as many scriptures or MORE that teach that you can lose your salvation.;scriptures that are describing “lost” Christians.

Give these scriptures a careful read:

Exodus 32:33-“Whoever sins against me, I will BLOT HIS NAME OUT OF MY BOOK.

1 Chron. 28:9- “If you forsake Him, He will cast you off.”

Romans 11:20-22-“…toward you goodness “IF”. you CONTINUE in His goodness; otherwise, YOU WILL BE CUT OFF.

I Cor. 10:12- Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he FALL.

Gal. 5:1-4- You are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Hebrews 3:12-Beware BRETHERN (saved), lest there be in you an evil heart if unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.

HEBREWS 2:1- Lest we drift AWAY ( from God).

Revelation 2:10- Be FAITHFUL unto death ( all your life) and you will receive a crown of life.

Hebrews 4:11- …lest anyone FALL.

Hebrews 6:4-6- Those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED (Christian’s), tasted the heavenly gift ( of salvation), have become PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ( saved), and tasted the good word of God (Christian) IF THEY FALL AWAY…” Saved people can fall away.

Hebrews 10:35-39- Do not CAST AWAY your confidence ( salvation)….you need ENDURANCE….BE FAITHFUL….if anyone DRAWS BACK, my soul finds no pleasure in him….THOSE WHO DRAW BACK TO PERDITION.

Hebrews 12:15- lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God.

2 Peter 3:17- LEST YOU FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS., being LED AWAY with the error of the wicked.

2 John 2:18- …that we DO NOT LOSE those things we worked for…

Revelation 3:11- HOLD ON to what you have ) salvation), that no one may TAKE AWAY YOUR CROWN.

Revelation 3:16- God will VOMIT OUT OF HIS MOUTH lukewarm Christians.

Revelation 2:4-5- REMEMBER FROM WHERE YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent.

Col. 1:23-IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH… and are NOT MOVED AWAY FROM… the gospel.

2 Peter 2:20-“If after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of .. Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have KNOWN THE WAY IF RIGHTEOUSNESS than to have known it and TURN AWAY FROM IT…”

19 scriptures ( and this is not all) that teach a child of God can be lost if they do not remain faithful to God. Plus, read the parable of the “list sheep.”

You want to take a couple of weeks to do justice to finding out why they were said? Fnding out what those verses are saying?

To keep it simple.

First of all.

​

"No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; ​

they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." ​

1 John 3:9 states that those born of God cannot habitually sin, it doesn't mean they are incapable of sinning.

Those who are truly born of God are inwardly changed and cannot make a practice of sinning, but they are
still human and can still stumble and fall into sin.


You know how God will not let a believer continue to sin, if he persists?

"If anyone sees their brother or sister committing a sin that doesn't lead to death, ​

they should pray, and God will give them life. There is a sin that leads to death, and ​

I am not saying that you should pray about that." 1 John 5:16​

If a believer is too dumb to be alive as God's Child? The believer will not continue to sin God will guarantee it that he does not.
Death as God assigns it for the believer to dumb to be alive.

God was causing the sin onto death for church members who were being stupid and arrogant in the early church.

It is on record!

​

Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. ​

For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on ​

themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep." 1 Cor 11:28-30​

Fallen asleep = died!

They will lose rewards. They will forfeit crowns.
They were stupid and stubborn, unwilling to be corrected and to learn sound doctrine!

Who are the stupid believers among us today?

Proverbs 12:1​

​

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,​

but whoever hates correction is stupid.​

Your choice!

 

[bluejean_bible]

I guess my point was that it could just be them walking in the flesh as opposed to walking in the Spirit. To say that every person who rejects the doctrine of Eternal Security is giving ear to evil spirits is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

Really?
When that evil spirit has a better chance at influencing the one(s) who are spiritually dead in their flesh?

Knowing,as evil does, (James 2:19), that it has a better chance with those who are lost, it is going to attach to the ones who present the least resistance.

The Elect have the kingdom of God within. Evil knows that too.

 

[Genez]

I guess my point was that it could just be them walking in the flesh as opposed to walking in the Spirit. To say that every person who rejects the doctrine of Eternal Security is giving ear to evil spirits is going a bit too far, in my opinion.

What you said is true... up to a point.

But, once you get to what should have been beyond the baby stage?
And, stay there for years?
Evil spirits keep these believers trapped in their thinking.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Really?
When that evil spirit has a better chance at influencing the one(s) who are spiritually dead in their flesh?

Knowing,as evil does, (James 2:19), that it has a better chance with those who are lost, it is going to attach to the ones who present the least resistance.

The Elect have the kingdom of God within. Evil knows that too.

What you said is true... up to a point.

But, once you get to what should have been beyond the baby stage?
And, stay there for years?
Evil spirits keep these believers trapped in their thinking.

There are a ton of Scriptures pointing to two culprits that are responsible for legalistic doctrines - the flesh and bad teachers. There are none that I know of that specifically mention evil spirits. That's one reason I don't go around blaming evil spirits for peoples' belief in works-based salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, all of these scriptures say that the faithful believers have eternal life— but that does not prove that a person can’t lose their salvation. I am a faithful believer. I am walking with Christ. I am drawing near to Christ. I have been baptized into Christ. I am assured by these scriptures that I will be saved and have eternal life. But these scriptures are not saying that a person cannot so sin as to be lost. He’s only describing the faithful Christians. He is not even addressing the lost. There are just as many scriptures or MORE that teach that you can lose your salvation.;scriptures that are describing “lost” Christians.

Give these scriptures a careful read:

Exodus 32:33-“Whoever sins against me, I will BLOT HIS NAME OUT OF MY BOOK.

1 Chron. 28:9- “If you forsake Him, He will cast you off.”

Romans 11:20-22-“…toward you goodness “IF”. you CONTINUE in His goodness; otherwise, YOU WILL BE CUT OFF.

I Cor. 10:12- Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he FALL.

Gal. 5:1-4- You are FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Hebrews 3:12-Beware BRETHERN (saved), lest there be in you an evil heart if unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD.

HEBREWS 2:1- Lest we drift AWAY ( from God).

Revelation 2:10- Be FAITHFUL unto death ( all your life) and you will receive a crown of life.

Hebrews 4:11- …lest anyone FALL.

Hebrews 6:4-6- Those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED (Christian’s), tasted the heavenly gift ( of salvation), have become PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ( saved), and tasted the good word of God (Christian) IF THEY FALL AWAY…” Saved people can fall away.

Hebrews 10:35-39- Do not CAST AWAY your confidence ( salvation)….you need ENDURANCE….BE FAITHFUL….if anyone DRAWS BACK, my soul finds no pleasure in him….THOSE WHO DRAW BACK TO PERDITION.

Hebrews 12:15- lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God.

2 Peter 3:17- LEST YOU FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS., being LED AWAY with the error of the wicked.

2 John 2:18- …that we DO NOT LOSE those things we worked for…

Revelation 3:11- HOLD ON to what you have ) salvation), that no one may TAKE AWAY YOUR CROWN.

Revelation 3:16- God will VOMIT OUT OF HIS MOUTH lukewarm Christians.

Revelation 2:4-5- REMEMBER FROM WHERE YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent.

Col. 1:23-IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH… and are NOT MOVED AWAY FROM… the gospel.

2 Peter 2:20-“If after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of .. Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have KNOWN THE WAY IF RIGHTEOUSNESS than to have known it and TURN AWAY FROM IT…”

19 scriptures ( and this is not all) that teach a child of God can be lost if they do not remain faithful to God. Plus, read the parable of the “list sheep.”

Not one of those verses above "unequivocally" teach that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." If you like, we could discuss these verses one at a time. I already covered some of those verses with you in this page from the link below:

Another look at John 10. - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

Hebrews 12:15- lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God.

The ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God.. Not fails to maintain but fails to obtain. No loss of salvation here. Only a failure to obtain it.