Loss of salvation???

Jimbone · 2025-04-02T09:55:38-0400

This is very true, even the Hebrews 6 verse does not clearly state that a truly saved person lost their salvation, I don't believe we can "barely taste" salvation. We're born again or not. I have come to see that a LOT of this debate hinges on what the person thinks of the power of God. If a person thinks that we are born with "free" will and that they chose to come to God, then it only follows logically that we have to be able to choose to walk away, if we feel like it later. This was how I looked at it at first too. I'd think "If I FREELY choose to follow Him and am transformed by His power, am I now stuck here a slave? Can I not choose to walk away if I want?"

It made no sense at all to come in a "free" man and then be made to stay a slave. Then my own personal testimony and His Spirit smacked me in the head with truth. I didn't "choose" Him when I was saved. As a matter of fact, I had already responded to an alter call, repeated the prayer, and was declared saved by my choice, by my pastor, so thought I'd already done the whole Christian thing and found it to be worthless in the trials going on then.

We also have to clear up that me saying God is in control of everything does not mean I believe that we don't have choice, nor does it mean that I believe that our choices don't matter. However, I say that even the man that hears the gospel, hits his knees and turns from his wicked way to God, and is born again in truth right then in there, is only doing what God empowered him to do and God gets ALL the glory and credit for his salvation too. In my case this is completely undeniable.

When God brought me to my knees, I didn't even think God was real anymore. When He showed me "my way" for what it was in truth, and everything that it was leading to, I had no clue what was going on at all. I just hit my knees in defeat and cried "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win, I lose, and I quit!"

I woke up the next day new, and God did it all, not me, not my choice, not the church I go to or the pastor that preaches, God did it. We are told very clearly that salvation is of God, and we cannot boast period. When someone says "god saved us, but we have to come to Him, or we have to choose Him, He throws the life preserver, but you have to grab it. I disagree with everything after and "but". God saves us. Period. No "but" after it, but I do so understanding why they believe these things having shared this understanding myself, for a time.

The truth is that we can no more "unsave" ourselves, as we can save ourselves. The ultimate truth of the matter, and the one we tend to hate most about God, is that He is in control and we are not. This truth people will do anything to avoid, including mislabeling other people, ignoring their every word and telling them what they believe, before turning around and destroying the belief they just tacked to the person. Then going on a high five validation party with each other celebrating their ownage over wickedness.

But my main point in this much longer that I intended comment, is that when we think it's us in control it follows logically that we can lose salvation, but in the light of the Spirit and truth we see that Gods power is so much bigger than our fleshly minds could have ever comprehended and we know that God did it all.

GRACE_ambassador · 2025-04-02T10:06:18-0400

op: Loss of God's Eternal Salvation?

Precious friends:

1) If lost, then It Would Not Be Eternal, eh?:

2) God Himself Has Graciously Shown us A Vast Multitude
( At Least 144? ) Of Plain And Clear Holy Scriptures of Truth!:

God's Eternal Salvation Is, In Biblical Fact, "in view" In God's Revelation Of The Mystery,
To/For Gentiles, Today, In His Dispensation Of The Grace Of God, Biblically Confirmed By:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

3) The Few misinterpreted verses that many have been "cherry-picked" to teach

otherwise should be prayerfully and Carefully handled thusly, Correct?:

The Best "Interpretive" Commentary On The Bible Is :

The BIBLE Itself!

NEVER ever interpret The Many Plain Scriptures by the "few" difficult verses, But,
ALWAYS Always Interpret the few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses By ALL Of The
MANY Plain and Clear Passages Of God’s Pure And Holy Word!
( Rule #6 of Bible study Rules! )

Precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And
Edified In Christ, and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

Amen.

Genez · 2025-04-02T11:48:31-0400

NewLifeInChrist said:

I do not go around blaming evil spirits for everything, either....

But one can discern demon influence when one sees it.
And, when you do.
You actually end up in a debate against the demons via the person's rebellion that invites it.

Here is an example of what demons seek to work with in stubborn, closed-minded believers.

Proverbs 12:1

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,

but whoever hates correction is stupid.

My beautiful pastor once stopped in the middle of a lesson, and there was silence.
Then, he proceeded to say the following.

'Dumb'.... (silence... and a pause)

'Stupid"'....(more silence... and a pause)

Then he explained it to us.

Dumb, is lacking the capacity to get it.
(pause) ....
Stupid, will not get it.

Stupid requires inspiration as to keep evading accepting truth.
Thoughts must come from somewhere to keep one refusing to acknowledge what one can understand.

Not demon possession.
Believers can not be demon possessed.
It's called... "Demon influence."

Believers fall into that trap all the time.
When confronted by it?
You are not debating flesh and blood.

In Christ....

Beckworth · 2025-04-02T12:13:14-0400

gratefuloneson said:

Yes. There is an abundance of scripture that confirms it! I just answered this question yesterday listing 19 scriptures that prove a saved person can be lost in post #1252, if you are interested in reading those. I will not re-post those here for sake of time and space, but I hope you will read them for yourself.

Acts 8, the story of Simon the sorcerer, is God’s approved example of what a person needs to do if they sin after being saved. He had just been saved in verse 13; notice what he did to be saved is exactly what Jesus said a person needs to do to be saved in Mark 16:16.) But he sinned in verses 18-19. He tried to buy the Holy Spirit with money. Peter told him his heart was not right and he needed to do what—? REPENT AND PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS. ( verse 22). If we do what he did, repent and pray, we can be assured that God will forgive us, too.

Genez · 2025-04-02T12:38:02-0400

Beckworth said:

God wants believers who are resurrected to reign in some way in His eternal Kingdom.

He has assigned to each one of us a name - Our Title.

The word name and 'title' were interchanged by the ancients.
We even use it today in the sense, as seen in...

He wants to make a name for himself.

Jesus even used a name for his Title, as seen in Revelation 19:16...

On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords.

That is His Title!
But, it was called "name" in the time the Bible was written!

So?

Our titles will be blotted out if we fail to find and do God's will for our lives.
We will not lose our salvation! But our awards!

This means?

We all got to find and learn from good, dedicated teachers, who teach adeptly the history and the manners of speech that were used at the time the Bible was written.
If we don't?

We will end up with egg on our face (try taking that one literally and run with it).

We can not lose our salvation, even if we fail miserably!

Their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light.

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up,

the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping

through the flames.

1 Cor 3:13-15

The work of the Cross thought of EVERYTHING needed to save us!
Save us, no matter how much we failed!

God is not stupid.
Man is.
God gets what He wants in a right way!

bluejean_bible · 2025-04-02T12:39:14-0400

NewLifeInChrist said:

False teachers are responsible for the lie of works based , conditional,salvation.

Satan tried and failed to tempt Jesus. Do we think evil spirits won't try to lead people away from the truth?

There are no passage that mention evil spirits trying to interfere with God's truth?
https://biblehub.com/topical/d/deception_by_evil_spirits.htm

Kenneth Copeland,false teacher,becomes possessed in church. They're in there. Have been for a long time. If you've met him,as I have,you know this. It radiates from him,head to toe like a heatwave.

And on this day they just decided to go public on his outside and in public .

http://youtube.com/shorts/CA0iT1n_INQ?si=WQal5JjkMIJ7E55S

Genez · 2025-04-02T12:49:04-0400

bluejean_bible said:

Good point! That is the point!

Evil spirits will even try to convince us that they can not influence us. That it only our flesh!

Soldiers get blown up in war all the time.
We are in God's army.... like it or not.
We are in a massive spiritual battle.

Yet, the Lord provides safe havens for those who find and guard the truth in their hearts!
FIND A EXCELLENT TEACHER!

Proverbs 4:23

Above all else, guard your heart,

for everything you do flows from it.

grace and peace ...............

BillyBob · 2025-04-02T13:08:09-0400

Jimbone said:

Good post! Please read @brightfame52 post # 213 in Holy Spirit and Salvation. It goes along great with what you have stated

Jimbone · 2025-04-02T13:15:05-0400

Beckworth said:

No you didn't, none of those states clearly someone who was saved by God lost that gift, not one of them, so to say you listed 19 verses that prove we can lose salvation is NOT true. I don't want to say it's a lie, because you believe they do say that, but the FACT of the matter is not one of them say what you want them to. You just give man WAY TOO MUCH power over salvation that doesn't belong to us, and deny Gods power to the point you basically say we can walk into and out of salvation whenever we want to. I disagree and feel your view of the power of God is like someone who has never experienced it. If you had you'd had MUCH MORE reverence for it.

Magenta · 2025-04-02T13:15:53-0400

James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

Jimbone · 2025-04-02T13:29:53-0400

Genez said:

I disagree 100%, of course. I believe Jesus in Mat. 24 when He tells the disciples strait up that ALL THOSE THINGS would happen before that generation passed away and I reject the timelines, charts, dispensations, and gurus that you have to add to scripture to get to your point of view. I think Jesus word and the fact that actual history backs up His word (just an awesome side effect of Him being THE truth), is SO much more convincing than Darby's interpretation, that it's not even close.

Also, I think I'll take the guidance of the Spirit and Jesus actual word even over my pastors view when they disagree thank you, I appreciate the advice, but I disagree with who holds the authority on these matters. You say look to men, I testify that the Spirit of God leads us to all truth, even though, to be fair, that might include going to the pastor.

Grace and peace to you too.

BillyBob · 2025-04-02T13:36:20-0400

Beckworth said:

You really need to rethink what you are saying. When we repent, it is only because the Spirit has worked in us to desire to do so! The work is then the work of the Spirit, not ours!

John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Do you really think that Christ has holes in his hands, that we might somehow slip through his fingers? This type of thinking must work against your assurance!

Magenta · 2025-04-02T13:46:59-0400

BillyBob said:

When Scripture says, it is God Who works in you to will and to do His good pleasure, they (general) must reinvent the wheel and rearrange the words and eliminate the key concept in order to insert themselves in place of God. Of course they do this for a plethora of passages...

BillyBob · 2025-04-02T13:54:24-0400

Magenta said:

To think that we could lose and regain our salvation over and over is not trusting in Christ and the Spirit for the work that they have done for us.
I pray for those that think this way!

bluejean_bible · 2025-04-02T14:09:43-0400

BillyBob said:

When Jesus never said it, it isn't true. Salvation is a gift of God. Irrevocable. Period.

mailmandan · 2025-04-02T14:48:12-0400

Beckworth said:

There was no loss of salvation here for Simon. Only a failure to receive it. Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) but later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24) You call that saved?

Now even though we read that Simon "believed," the remainder of the verse hints at the true object of his belief: "the miracles and signs which were done." No saving belief in Christ.

Genez · 2025-04-02T14:59:24-0400

Jimbone said:

For me. That is reassuring.

bluejean_bible · 2025-04-02T15:15:46-0400

mailmandan said:

True. Simon the source thought if he claimed to believe and performed the route,baptism,he would gain for himself the same powers as the Disciples of Christ.

His story is a great example of the nominal Christian. In name only. Which is also a perfect example in itself against the teaching that a person can choose to follow Christ and be equal in the mind of God with God's Elect.

"You did not choose me, I chose you..." Jesus to his Disciples.

They being precisely what Jesus taught. Those ones whom the father called. And their natural mind,human consciousness dead in sin,having been altered by the holy Spirit so they should understand the things Jesus taught. Which is how they performed the works of Christ later. Miracles,etc...

Simon was not that. He was in his fallen mind when he thought he could buy holy powers. And pretend first to believe in Christ in order to obtain them.

It is in keeping with the material desires of the flesh. That which thinks they choose Christ would naturally think they can later choose not to believe in him. And have Christ agree and cut them loose so to have them fall back into their former dead in sin state.

When in reality , God knows, they were always there.

Genez · 2025-04-02T15:47:23-0400

Why should God?
.. Omniscient God?
Who knows all things?

Save someone?
Whom God knows will lose their salvation?

Why even bother?

My God is not a dumb God.
Some here think He is!

bluejean_bible · 2025-04-02T16:01:31-0400

Genez said:

Now you're getting it. The intentions of some here is to act as contrarians to Scripture.

Every community in Christ has them.

Loss of salvation???

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