Lust can be great

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atwhatcost

Guest
#1
#1
Recently, someone asked about lusting. Almost everyone told her lusting is bad.

Ummm, only if done wrong!!!

Lusting is great.

Here's the definition of the word used in the Bible.

Paul lusted.

Jesus lusted.

Wooo doggie! Solomon lusted.

John Piper goes into how good lust can be.

So, a little suggestion -- before assuming something is bad, simply because of Puritan background incorporated into societal culture, how about finding out what God really thinks?

And then join me in the full and wonderful lust of squeezing a raspberry to the roof of your mouth with your tongue. Mmmmm, good raspberry! (And, if not raspberry, chocolate. An if you don't like either.... what's wrong with you? :mad: lol)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#2
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#2
This reminds me of agape love, many misinterpret the word to mean "God's love" but even some 'agaped' the glory that comes from man rather than from God.

John 12:42-43 (KJV)
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved agape the praise of men more than the praise of God.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#3
Jul 3, 2015
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#3
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God thinks lusting is a sin. Zeal for something is not lust. Lust is inappropriate sexual desire.
 
G

Galahad

Guest
#4
#4
Magenta said:
*
God thinks lusting is a sin. Zeal for something is not lust. Lust is inappropriate sexual desire.
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Yes. That is correct. A difference between lust and zeal. Zeal is good. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, not good.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#5
#5
crossnote said:
This reminds me of agape love, many misinterpret the word to mean "God's love" but even some 'agaped' the glory that comes from man rather than from God.

John 12:42-43 (KJV)
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved agape the praise of men more than the praise of God.
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Somewhere, (long ago, when I was either a teen or in my 20's, so no saying what I was reading back then), I read Paul took an obscure Greek word for love. One not even used by the Greeks at the time, and updated it specifically to use a word for God's kind of love -- agape. I don't know if I would trust the source of whatever I was reading back then now, but that sounded cool.
 
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atwhatcost

Guest
#6
#6
Magenta said:
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God thinks lusting is a sin. Zeal for something is not lust. Lust is inappropriate sexual desire.
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Based on? (I showed you mine. Want to show me yours? lol)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#7
Jul 3, 2015
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#7
Zeal is associated with enthusiasm, not sexual lust.

Word Origin and History for enthusiasmExpand
n.c.1600, from Middle French enthousiasme (16c.) and directly from Late Latin enthusiasmus, from Greek enthousiasmos "divine inspiration, "from enthousiazein" be inspired or possessed by a god, be rapt, be in ecstasy, "from entheos "divinely inspired, possessed by a god," from en "in" (see en-(2) + theos "god" (see Thea ). Acquired a derogatory sense of "excessive religious emotion" (1650s) under the Puritans; generalized sense of "fervor, zeal" (the main modern sense) is first recorded 1716.



 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#8
Jul 3, 2015
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#8
atwhatcost said:
Based on? (I showed you mine. Want to show me yours? lol)
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Jesus said it: But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Commandment number seven/six thou shalt not commit adultery.

 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#9
#9
Magenta said:
Zeal is associated with enthusiasm, not sexual lust.

Word Origin and History for enthusiasmExpand
n.c.1600, from Middle French enthousiasme (16c.) and directly from Late Latin enthusiasmus, from Greek enthousiasmos "divine inspiration, "from enthousiazein" be inspired or possessed by a god, be rapt, be in ecstasy, "from entheos "divinely inspired, possessed by a god," from en "in" (see en-(2) + theos "god" (see Thea ). Acquired a derogatory sense of "excessive religious emotion" (1650s) under the Puritans; generalized sense of "fervor, zeal" (the main modern sense) is first recorded 1716.
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I understand the meaning of zeal. I'm asking you to prove lust is always evil in the Bible.
 
Yonah

Yonah

Senior Member
#10
Oct 31, 2014
1,074
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#10
actually lust is simply desire and its not always untoward, although it certainly can be, heres a good example in scripture of the word lust used in context of desire and that not sexually;Deu 12:21
 If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
it is easy to misunderstand this because when most hear the word lust it is usually equated with sexual desire, however the word itself does not always mean this, as with other words their meaning changes over time, words such as gay, it actually meant happy at one time, or wicked, which in some circles today means cool or amazing, it is easy to get caught up in semantics but we all should try to see things more objectively.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#11
Jul 3, 2015
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#11
atwhatcost said:
I understand the meaning of zeal. I'm asking you to prove lust is always evil in the Bible.
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Lust needs to be kept in the proper context. You are associating it with things not of a sexual nature.
 
G

Galahad

Guest
#12
#12
Paul said, "they have a zeal toward God." Context. "They have a lust for God." Nope.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#13
Nov 24, 2012
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#13
Luke 22:15 (KJV) And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

Same greek word used here (desire I have desired) that is used elsewhere for 'lusting after'.

ἐπιθυμία, ας, ἡ. (1) in a neutral sense strong impulse or desire (MK 4.19); (2) in a good sense of natural and legitimate desire (eager) longing, (earnest) desire (1TH 2.17); (3) in a bad sense of unrestrained desire for something forbidden lust, craving, evil desire (1T 6.9)
 
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Galahad

Guest
#14
#14
C'mon now. Someone post something. No one has a desire to post? How about someone who's zealous toward the truth? Nothing dirty, might cause some folks to lust.
 
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Galahad

Guest
#15
#15
crossnote said:
Luke 22:15 (KJV) And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

Same greek word used here (desire I have desired) that is used elsewhere for 'lusting after'.
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Yes, but we are talking English, Crossnote!
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#16
Nov 24, 2012
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#16
Galahad said:
Yes, but we are talking English, Crossnote!
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I added this, some in English...

ἐπιθυμία, ας, ἡ. (1) in a neutral sense strong impulse or desire (MK 4.19); (2) in a good sense of natural and legitimate desire (eager) longing, (earnest) desire (1TH 2.17); (3) in a bad sense of unrestrained desire for something forbidden lust, craving, evil desire (1T 6.9) ANLEX
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#17
Jul 3, 2015
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#17
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Negative lust is also associated with coveting, and that is
also clearly taboo as per commandment number ten.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#18
Nov 24, 2012
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#18
I can't help here, if all we do is go by our own defs and disregard the dictionaries, even when comparing scripture with scripture.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#19
#19
atwhatcost said:
I understand the meaning of zeal. I'm asking you to prove lust is always evil in the Bible.
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The Greek epiqumia (epithumia), which is translated "desire," "earnestly," "impulses" as well as "lust" or "lusts," is a feminine noun in the Greek, and depends on context to be rendered "lust." For example ...

1 John 2, NASB
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.​

By the same token, there are the examples of Jesus and Paul given in your OP, but the context directs a rendering of "desire" because the intent in honorable, not selfish.

But epiqumeo (epithumeo) is a verb and describes an action with an attitude, "turning upon a thing," and is usually seen as an action undertaken despite knowing it is forbidden. Almost exclusively in its uses, this is rendered "lust" in our modern English translations.
 
G

Galahad

Guest
#20
#20
crossnote said:
I can't help here, if all we do is go by our own defs and disregard the dictionaries, even when comparing scripture with scripture.
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Crossnote, I mean no disrespect. Read the preface to any dictionary. They are "authoritative" up to a point. And your response was very good. So I don't know what you mean. I LIKEd your response.

Just because it is in a dictionary, doesn't mean it is right. I know that will stir debate, but it's true. Case in point: "By the same token, there are the examples of Jesus and Paul given in your OP, but the context directs a rendering of "desire" because the intent in honorable, not selfish.
But epiqumeo (epithumeo) is a verb and describes an action with an attitude, "turning upon a thing," and is usually seen as an action undertaken despite knowing it is forbidden. Almost exclusively in its uses, this is rendered "lust" in our modern English translations."

Don't know if VW wrote that himself or borrowed it. Fact is, you and I are able to come up with the same conclusion. It would take time, and maybe not be worded as well, but it would be legitimate, correct.

CONTEXT plays a major role in determining the meaning of a word, as you know.

Teacher used to say, "If you don't understand the meaning of a word, read the sentence before the word and the sentence after it." Context.

(See VW post #19.)
 
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