Martin Luther - the founder of Protestantism: Anti-Semitic?
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R
i didn't say that the roman catholic church claimed that scripture was second to anything...
however i hear roman catholics say 'scripture -and- tradition' or 'scripture is part of tradition'...when the bible indicates that the authority of scripture is superior to even the apostles from whom tradition supposedly derives its authority...
tradition stands or falls on its adherence to scripture...you could call that 'tradition in submission to scripture'
however i hear roman catholics say 'scripture -and- tradition' or 'scripture is part of tradition'...when the bible indicates that the authority of scripture is superior to even the apostles from whom tradition supposedly derives its authority...
tradition stands or falls on its adherence to scripture...you could call that 'tradition in submission to scripture'
R
newly invented doctrines would include...the authority of rome over the rest of the church...the apocrypha as authoritative scripture...celibacy of priests...veneration of relics...immaculate conception of mary...
probably you will disagree on most of those...but history shows when and how each of these doctrines originated...they are not apostolic...
by gaps in apostolic succession i mean when the sequence of apostolic succession includes people who otherwise are not even known to have actually existed outside of church tradition...people like 'pope anacletus' for example...
by failures of apostolic succession i mean when validly ordained bishops turn out to be heretics...nestorius for example...
i am not a member of any denomination but i go to a lutheran church now...
probably you will disagree on most of those...but history shows when and how each of these doctrines originated...they are not apostolic...
by gaps in apostolic succession i mean when the sequence of apostolic succession includes people who otherwise are not even known to have actually existed outside of church tradition...people like 'pope anacletus' for example...
by failures of apostolic succession i mean when validly ordained bishops turn out to be heretics...nestorius for example...
i am not a member of any denomination but i go to a lutheran church now...
Rom 11:25 For there is a truth, brethren, not revealed hitherto, of which I do not wish to leave you in ignorance, for fear you should attribute superior wisdom to yourselves--the truth, I mean, that partial blindness has fallen upon Israel until the great mass of the Gentiles have come in;I hold this mystery to be the case...
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
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By saying this: "based on that passage it should be clear that paul regarded scripture as superior even to his apostolic authority..." , you were in a way implying that the Catholic Church claimed that Scripture came second, because your topic of choice has been the Catholic Church. But that's beside the point, sis. And again, you agree with the Catholic Church on this, that Scripture is the most important part of our faith. Why did you just re-word the same point?
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Ok, why is it so wrong to have the head-quarters of the Catholic Church in Rome? And the Apocrypha has been in the Catholic Bible (which is the oldest) all along. What makes is right for you to say that the apocrypha is not authoritative? None of these other bibles came about until just 500 odd years ago!. And celibacy of priests? So what? I'll quote something from from St. Augustine's book called "confessions". He talks about the time he hit puberty....."It was the intoxicated joy with which the world forgets you the creator, to love in your place what you created, drunk on the invisible wine of desires deflected from you and declined towards the depths......" Priests submit their whole lives to Christ. The last thing they need is the earthly desire of sex to be at hand whenever they want it. When they join the priesthood, they take on these vows ever willingly. So what if the Church introduced this? And also, they still have the option in some orders to marry first, then become monks. They cannot however become priests after marriage.
Veneration of relics!!! lol boy oh boy. when are we going to get over the false understandings of this. Actually, relics include mosaics, and they were there at the time of the early church. This doesn't mean that they venerated the relics, sis. They venerated who the relics represented. Exactly the same as we do today. We don't worship false idols, like the Babylonians did. We adore the person whom the statue or painting or whatever it is represents.
What did Nestorius teach? Any corrupt clergy (and their teachings) that the Church has had in the past, has been dis-owned by the Catholic Church, just like the Protestants dis-owning the bad teachings of Luther. There is ABSOLUTELY no difference. As the Church grew older and wiser, She made mistakes and learnt. Is Luther any less culpable for his actions because he left the Catholic Church? No.
Veneration of relics!!! lol boy oh boy. when are we going to get over the false understandings of this. Actually, relics include mosaics, and they were there at the time of the early church. This doesn't mean that they venerated the relics, sis. They venerated who the relics represented. Exactly the same as we do today. We don't worship false idols, like the Babylonians did. We adore the person whom the statue or painting or whatever it is represents.
What did Nestorius teach? Any corrupt clergy (and their teachings) that the Church has had in the past, has been dis-owned by the Catholic Church, just like the Protestants dis-owning the bad teachings of Luther. There is ABSOLUTELY no difference. As the Church grew older and wiser, She made mistakes and learnt. Is Luther any less culpable for his actions because he left the Catholic Church? No.
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Like Simon Peter, Jesus has commissioned Pope Francis: "Strengthen your brother."
Welcome to Holy Week!! With the election of our new Holy Father, Pope Francis, I want to invite you to experience Holy Week in the person of St. Peter. On Holy Thursday - when we celebrate the Last Supper - Peter asks Jesus, "Are you going to wash my feet?" On Good Friday we see Peter drawing a sword to defend Jesus - then denying that he even knows Him. But on Easter Sunday morning, Simon Peter is the first Apostle to enter the empty tomb.
Today we hear Jesus say, "Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift you all like wheat, but I prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."
These words - "Strengthen your brothers" - apply to the successor of Peter, the Pope. By all accounts, God has blessed us with a humble, wise and strong man as Holy Father. But, you know, Pope Francis' strength does not come from himself, but from the promise of Jesus: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail." The papacy has survived two thousand years because of the prayer of Jesus. Starting with Peter himself, the Popes have weaknesses and sins (like you and me) but Jesus has preserved them from error when declaring things definitively to the whole Church, so they can strengthen their brother bishops - and us.
We join Jesus in praying for Pope Francis. In this first greeting to the people of Rome and the world he said: " And now I would like to give the blessing, but first - first I ask a favour of you: before the bishop blesses his people, I ask you to pray to the Lord that He will bless me: the prayer of the people asking the blessing for their bishop. Let us make, in silence, this prayer: your prayer over me."
As successor of Peter, he has a vital role keeping us on the right path. Like Simon Peter, Jesus has commissioned Pope Francis: "Strengthen your brothers."
Let us pray for our most Holy Father, Pope Francis: May the Lord preserve him, and give him life, and make him blessed upon the earth, and deliver him not up to the will of his enemies. Amen!!
Fr. Peter Joseph
Welcome to Holy Week!! With the election of our new Holy Father, Pope Francis, I want to invite you to experience Holy Week in the person of St. Peter. On Holy Thursday - when we celebrate the Last Supper - Peter asks Jesus, "Are you going to wash my feet?" On Good Friday we see Peter drawing a sword to defend Jesus - then denying that he even knows Him. But on Easter Sunday morning, Simon Peter is the first Apostle to enter the empty tomb.
Today we hear Jesus say, "Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift you all like wheat, but I prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."
These words - "Strengthen your brothers" - apply to the successor of Peter, the Pope. By all accounts, God has blessed us with a humble, wise and strong man as Holy Father. But, you know, Pope Francis' strength does not come from himself, but from the promise of Jesus: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail." The papacy has survived two thousand years because of the prayer of Jesus. Starting with Peter himself, the Popes have weaknesses and sins (like you and me) but Jesus has preserved them from error when declaring things definitively to the whole Church, so they can strengthen their brother bishops - and us.
We join Jesus in praying for Pope Francis. In this first greeting to the people of Rome and the world he said: " And now I would like to give the blessing, but first - first I ask a favour of you: before the bishop blesses his people, I ask you to pray to the Lord that He will bless me: the prayer of the people asking the blessing for their bishop. Let us make, in silence, this prayer: your prayer over me."
As successor of Peter, he has a vital role keeping us on the right path. Like Simon Peter, Jesus has commissioned Pope Francis: "Strengthen your brothers."
Let us pray for our most Holy Father, Pope Francis: May the Lord preserve him, and give him life, and make him blessed upon the earth, and deliver him not up to the will of his enemies. Amen!!
Fr. Peter Joseph
D
Not a big fan of wiki, but I quote it for those whose theology seems to be wiki based.
In 1983 The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod denounced Luther's "hostile attitude" toward the Jews <click
And here is a statement from pg13 of the FAQ a downloadable pdf document located HERE <click that says “Resolved, That we condemn any and all discrimination against others on account of race or religion or any coercion on that account and pledge ourselves to work and witness against such sins;”
I guess some didn’t get the memo.
In 1983 The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod denounced Luther's "hostile attitude" toward the Jews <click
And here is a statement from pg13 of the FAQ a downloadable pdf document located HERE <click that says “Resolved, That we condemn any and all discrimination against others on account of race or religion or any coercion on that account and pledge ourselves to work and witness against such sins;”
I guess some didn’t get the memo.
R
well what the roman catholic church claims is that scripture and apostolic tradition stand on equal authority...and that by nature they cannot contradict...
what the story of the berean christians indicates is that apostolic authority is subordinate to the authority of scripture and that tradition can and should be overruled by scripture when called for...
scripture is the sole authority...tradition is the servant...
what the story of the berean christians indicates is that apostolic authority is subordinate to the authority of scripture and that tradition can and should be overruled by scripture when called for...
scripture is the sole authority...tradition is the servant...
R
i told you we wouldn't agree on that stuff...i am just going to skip over it since debating it would be fruitless...
nestorius denied the full divinity of jesus christ...he was excommunicated and condemned by the first council of ephesus in 431...
the point was that nestorius was a validly ordained archbishop...supposedly as an apostolic successor to andrew...
i see no reason to assume that false teaching could not creep into the doctrine of the roman catholic church through other similarly ordained 'apostolic successors'...nestorius only lost because there was only one of him...
nestorius denied the full divinity of jesus christ...he was excommunicated and condemned by the first council of ephesus in 431...
the point was that nestorius was a validly ordained archbishop...supposedly as an apostolic successor to andrew...
i see no reason to assume that false teaching could not creep into the doctrine of the roman catholic church through other similarly ordained 'apostolic successors'...nestorius only lost because there was only one of him...
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Rach, I don't know if you're aware of this, but the Bereans were not Christians. They were Jews and a few Greeks. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.
There was no New Testament Scripture back then. There was some, but most of it wasn't put together yet and it wasn't canonized to obtain the status of "Scripture".
Rach, before I go on about the Bareans, which Bible are you talking about? With all the variations around these days(and the variations are HUGE!!!!), how do you know that the one you go by is the correct translation? I mean, if we're going to base our whole faith on Scripture and have that as our only rule of faith, then we want to make sure that we have the absolute correct translation, don't we? So which Bible do you go by, and how do you know it's the correct translation?
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But, Rach, as you just pointed out, as soon as something like that happens, the Church ex-communicates them through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Nobody's denying this has happened. But it always gets sorted out and they get thrown out. Its really as simple as that.
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it."
Christ promised us that the Gates of Hades will never prevail over His Church. That's what I believe. That's what all us Catholics believe. I know you're interpretation on this is different, as it is on most other things. Peace, sis. God bless you.
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it."
Christ promised us that the Gates of Hades will never prevail over His Church. That's what I believe. That's what all us Catholics believe. I know you're interpretation on this is different, as it is on most other things. Peace, sis. God bless you.
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Our Lady of Medjugorje’s words to the world : April 2, 2013 :
“Dear children; I am calling you to be one with my Son in spirit. I am calling you, through prayer, and the Holy Mass when my Son unites Himself with you in a special way, to try to be like Him; that, like Him, you may always be ready to carry out God’s will and not seek the fulfillment of your own. Because, my children, it is according to God’s will that you are and that you exist, and without God’s will you are nothing. As a mother, I am asking you to speak about the glory of God with your life because, in that way, you will also glorify yourself in accordance to His will. Show humility and love for your neighbor to everyone. Through such humility and love, my Son saved you and opened the way for you to the Heavenly Father. I implore you to keep opening the way to the Heavenly Father for all those who have not come to know Him and have not opened their hearts to His love. By your life, open the way to all those who still wander in search of the truth. My children, do not forget that you will come before the Heavenly Father and tell Him about yourself. Be ready! Again I am warning you, pray for those whom my Son called, whose hands He blessed and whom He gave as a gift to you. Pray, pray, pray for your shepherds. Thank you.”
“Dear children; I am calling you to be one with my Son in spirit. I am calling you, through prayer, and the Holy Mass when my Son unites Himself with you in a special way, to try to be like Him; that, like Him, you may always be ready to carry out God’s will and not seek the fulfillment of your own. Because, my children, it is according to God’s will that you are and that you exist, and without God’s will you are nothing. As a mother, I am asking you to speak about the glory of God with your life because, in that way, you will also glorify yourself in accordance to His will. Show humility and love for your neighbor to everyone. Through such humility and love, my Son saved you and opened the way for you to the Heavenly Father. I implore you to keep opening the way to the Heavenly Father for all those who have not come to know Him and have not opened their hearts to His love. By your life, open the way to all those who still wander in search of the truth. My children, do not forget that you will come before the Heavenly Father and tell Him about yourself. Be ready! Again I am warning you, pray for those whom my Son called, whose hands He blessed and whom He gave as a gift to you. Pray, pray, pray for your shepherds. Thank you.”