Mary, the mother of God

[Browncoat]

Good thread, aspen. I agree.

Look at it this way.

1. Jesus is God.
2. Mary is the Mother of Jesus.

If we accept these two things as truth, and any Christian worth his salt does, one of two things must be true.

Either
A) Mary is the Mother of God. If you really prefer saying "Mother of the Second Person of the Trinity, which is God" then that is fine.
or
B) Jesus is not God.

So which one? The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons, in their disdain for Mary, have resorted to choosing B).

Personally, I choose B too, but it has nothing to do with disdain for Mary on my part because I believe she is worthy of honour

 

[kujo313]

catholics are thinking in the flesh about the flesh.

"Mary did this" or "Mary did that". This isnt about Mary or the flesh at all.

It's about GOD.

That's why the Old Testament never mentions about what to do with the sacrificial lamb's mother. Never.

It's about GOD and His Spirit and us being able to be in His presence... forever.

Our center of attention should be on God.

But as typical people living in the flesh, they turn Jesus into a "mama's boy" instead of giving God ALL the honor and glory that is His.

Jesus was, and always is, a "Daddy's Boy" and is into the "Family Business".

(a catholic wouldreply with "but Mary..." here. Thus, think in the flesh.)

 

[Browncoat]

That's why the Old Testament never mentions about what to do with the sacrificial lamb's mother. Never.

That's because it is never referring to human beings. You keep repeating this over and over again, and I'm starting to feel like you think G-d puts man and animal on the same basis. We are nothing but animals to G-d.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Mary was not a virgin her whole life.

Can you imagine Joseph not having sex with his own wife??

 

[Browncoat]

Mary was not a virgin her whole life.

How do you know? Show me some factual evidence, please

 

[imoss]

thats funny.

 

[MahogonySnail]

How do you know? Show me some factual evidence, please

Common sense. Joseph could not have waited, unless he hired prostitutes of course. I expect Mary was horny as well. Also it is anatomically impossible for a woman to remain a virgin after she has given birth.

 

[Browncoat]

Common sense. Joseph could not have waited, unless he hired prostitutes of course. I expect Mary was horny as well. Also it is anatomically impossible for a woman to remain a virgin after she has given birth.

"Common sense" is not factual evidence. You're claiming facts without any evidence. All you have is suppositions.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Common sense is that when two people marry they have sex.

 

[Browncoat]

Common sense is that when two people marry they have sex.

Maybe G-d commanded her to remain a virgin. Joseph was a G-d-fearing man, and Mary was a G-d-fearing woman, so if He commanded it of them, they would have listened.

*EDIT* Also, there is more to marriage than sex.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Maybe G-d commanded her to remain a virgin. Joseph was a G-d-fearing man, and Mary was a G-d-fearing woman, so if He commanded it of them, they would have listened.

They must have slept in different beds, maybe different houses then. The definition of marriage is man and woman becoming one flesh. Apparently if joseph and mary never had sex then they never became one flesh and by God's definition - were never married.

*EDIT* Also, there is more to marriage than sex.

There was no television in those days. As I alluded to before, God's definition of marriage IS sex. Two becoming one. Sex is the main focus of it.

 

[Jordan9]

Puh-lease. As a 19 year old male, I find chastity to be difficult but not impossible. I imagine it'd be even easier for an aging man, as Joseph probably was, who had been visited by an angel and told his wife bore the Messiah to refrain from intercourse.

Brother Anthony Opisso has a decent write-up on all this. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TALMUD.htm He discusses celibacy in Jewish culture at great length.

 

[Browncoat]

Common sense is that when two people marry they have sex.

They must have slept in different beds, maybe different houses then. The definition of marriage is man and woman becoming one flesh. Apparently if joseph and mary never had sex then they never became one flesh and by God's definition - were never married.

There was no television in those days. As I alluded to before, God's definition of marriage IS sex. Two becoming one. Sex is the main focus of it.

Well, Joseph does disappear after the birth of Yeshua, and from the looks of things only married Mary because the angel told him to, because once it got out that she was pregnant and unmarried she'd be stoned, so...

 

[QuestionTime]

He is using loaded language read his statement slowly and you will see where aspen wants the conversation to go.

Next up we will be getting the Marianne dogmas.

Phil

This is goddess worship. The world prefers to worship a goddess rather than a masculine God. Mother nature anyone?

Quest

 

[MahogonySnail]

Well, Joseph does disappear after the birth of Yeshua, and from the looks of things only married Mary because the angel told him to, because once it got out that she was pregnant and unmarried she'd be stoned, so...

But they planned to marry before she had the visit of the angel I think. I dont think it was a marriage of convenience. They did truly love each other and why would God prevent a loving couple from expressing that love?

 

[QuestionTime]

*
[FONT=&quot]Following through with logic is an important step in determining the reasonableness and truth of doctrine. Declaring that Mary is merely the mother of Jesus, the man, denies His divinity. According to the Incarnation of Christ, a doctrine accepted by Catholic and Protestant Christians, Christ is fully human and fully God. In addition, according to the doctrine, you cannot separate the two. This means that referring to Mary as the mother of Jesus means the same thing as calling her the mother of God. [/FONT]

The Holy Spirit was the male figure whose seed gave Jesus Divinity. Mary was the female figure whose seed gave Jesus humanity.

What is so difficult to understand about this? If Mary has any ounce of Divinity, she would likewise have had to be conceived by the Holy Spirit in the same fashion in her Mother's womb, and her Mother before her and all the way back to Eve. This is nonsense.

Quest

 

[Browncoat]

But they planned to marry before she had the visit of the angel I think. I dont think it was a marriage of convenience. They did truly love each other and why would God prevent a loving couple from expressing that love?

Which is why Joseph was about to abandon her before the angel showed up, right?

If love can only be expressed through sex, then I guess G-d would prevent a loving couple from expressing love by having sex, but I don't believe sex is the only way to express love.

 

[Browncoat]

This is goddess worship. The world prefers to worship a goddess rather than a masculine God. Mother nature anyone?

Quest

'Masculine' G-d? G-d has no gender.

 

[QuestionTime]

Common sense. Joseph could not have waited, unless he hired prostitutes of course. I expect Mary was horny as well. Also it is anatomically impossible for a woman to remain a virgin after she has given birth.

??? I dislike the blunt language in this post. I do believe that when someone loves God with all the heart, they are quite capable of keeping their hormones in check, just like the Old Testament Joseph did.

Quest

 

[MahogonySnail]

If love can only be expressed through sex, then I guess G-d would prevent a loving couple from expressing love by having sex, but I don't believe sex is the only way to express love.

And scriptures say " to express his love to her, Joseph made grilled cheese sandwiches for her on a sunday morning".

Anyway the bible does say Jesus had half-brothers.

The origins of this in roman catholicism comes from some very prudish early church authors who believed sex was the original sin.