Mary, the mother of God

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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#61
mary just happened to be the virgin whom the holy spirit placed the son in. there was no joining of his spirit and mary's spirit until after his resurrection. mary was in the upper room waiting to receive the filling of the holy spirit along with the apostles. when they came and told him that his father and brother and mother were outside, jesus pointed to those who were listening to him and said that these were his father, and brother, and mother. mary was blessed because she was called to carry the son of god, but she is never called the mother of god in the scriptures because of the pagan religions from the tower of babel which worshiped the mother of god.
 
Feb 19, 2010
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#62
And scriptures say " to express his love to her, Joseph made grilled cheese sandwiches for her on a sunday morning".

Anyway the bible does say Jesus had half-brothers.

The origins of this in roman catholicism comes from some very prudish early church authors who believed sex was the original sin.
Eh. It's possible.

Anyway, I don't disagree that Mary lost her virginity, I just think it's ridiculous to make such a big deal out of someone thinking she remained a virgin her whole life.
 
Feb 19, 2010
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#63
mary just happened to be the virgin whom the holy spirit placed the son in.
I don't believe this one bit :) G-d does not "just do" things. Everything He does is for a reason, including choosing Mary of all virgins to bear His son.
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#64
Of course Jesus existed before Mary. Christ said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Father and Son are of the same substance and co-eternal. I would never deny that. What I am denying is that Jesus is separable. As the Incarnation, He was man and God simultaneously. You cannot divide Him like that.

"Mother of God," at least so far as the original term and definition are concerned, means just that: Mary was the Mother of the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Trinity Jesus Christ, who was One Person of A Single Nature and A Single Essence.

That is a mouthful, though, so we say "Mother of God."
What is the necessity of calling her anything but Mary? This is an unhealthy focus that even Jesus himself didn't give to His own Mother. This is goddess worship, raising the female body to something divine. If those words: "Mother of God" never came out of Jesus' mouth, you can bet they'll never come out of mine!

And I disagree with your logic that either she is the Mother of God or Jesus is not divine. See my post above where I make clear the role of her body in Jesus' birth and the role of the Holy Spirit.

Quest
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#65
I just think it's ridiculous to make such a big deal out of someone thinking she remained a virgin her whole life.
Understanding of course that the same religion prevents priests from marrying.
 
J

Jordan9

Guest
#66
I don't believe this one bit :) G-d does not "just do" things. Everything He does is for a reason, including choosing Mary of all virgins to bear His son.
Lol, I see it now. God is in heaven, a dartboard on the wall, and a bunch of photos of different virgins on the dartboard. He blindfolds Himself and tosses a dart to choose which one :p
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#67
I don't believe this one bit :) G-d does not "just do" things. Everything He does is for a reason, including choosing Mary of all virgins to bear His son.
of course he had a reason. he did not share that reason with us. mary did happen to be of the lineage of david. that was neat. but he could have chosen another virgen, if he wanted to.
 
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Jordan9

Guest
#68
Understanding of course that the same religion prevents priests from marrying.
It isn't the religion, per se. Priestly chastity is not a Catholic doctrine, but a tradition, with a small t. There are other rites within the Catholic Church (non-Latin Rites) that allow the clergy to marry.

Is it a man-made rule? Absolutely, and as such can and might someday be removed.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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#69
the point is that being chosen to bear the son of god does not make her the mother of heaven, nor the mother of god, because in the beginning, jesus was.
 
Feb 19, 2010
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#71
the point is that being chosen to bear the son of god does not make her the mother of heaven, nor the mother of god, because in the beginning, jesus was.
But her blood ran through Yeshua's veins. She was his mother, he called her his mother, he loved her like his mother, and you believe he was G-d.

So, yeah, she is kinda the mother of G-d.
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#72
The Four Marian Dogmas are:

1. Perpetual virginity of Mary
Blasphemy, clearly contradicted by the scripture as we know Jesus had brothers and sisters.

2. She is the Mother of God (Theotokos, or "God-bearer")
She gave birth to Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit who gave the Divine nature to Jesus, not mary. (I'm not even going to capitalize her name anymore as she isn't important enough to do so).

3. She was conceived without Original Sin.
Then mary's Mother must have been conceived without Original Sin also, and her Mother before her and so on, back to Eve.

4. She was assumed, body and soul, into Heaven.
Not in the Bible.

Quest
 
Feb 19, 2010
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#73
Blasphemy, clearly contradicted by the scripture as we know Jesus had brothers and sisters.
I don't think you know what the word "blasphemy" means.

She gave birth to Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit who gave the Divine nature to Jesus, not mary.
So if Yeshua is divine, she is the mother of G-d, because she is his mother.

(I'm not even going to capitalize her name anymore as she isn't important enough to do so).
Wow. No offense, but you are a prideful jerk.
 
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lil-rush

Guest
#74
But her blood ran through Yeshua's veins. She was his mother, he called her his mother, he loved her like his mother, and you believe he was G-d.

So, yeah, she is kinda the mother of G-d.
I believe the holy spirit lives in me. Does that mean my mom is the mother of the holy spirit?
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#75
That's why the Old Testament never mentions about what to do with the sacrificial lamb's mother. Never.
I'm quite amazed by your quote above. I've never heard anything like this said before. It's so true!!!

Quest
 
Feb 19, 2010
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#76
I believe the holy spirit lives in me. Does that mean my mom is the mother of the holy spirit?
No, but this is entirely different. You're not anything CLOSE to what Yeshua was :p
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#77
"Common sense" is not factual evidence. You're claiming facts without any evidence. All you have is suppositions.
Matt 1:
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

He "knew her not" until she had brought for her "firstborn" son.

What the scripture is saying is that he didn't have sex with her until after she had Jesus. He knew her not till she had brought forth. That indicates clearly that he did eventually "know her."

Firstborn is mentioned here with importance. The Bible always gives the blessing to the first born. Not only that but it also indicates to me that there were more children after. The Bible also says that Jesus had brothers and sisters. Many scholars believe that James was a physical brother to Jesus.

I don't understand how people can read that Jesus had brothers and sisters and think that mary was a perpetual virgin.

Quest
 
J

Jordan9

Guest
#78
Blasphemy, clearly contradicted by the scripture as we know Jesus had brothers and sisters.
Read the Scripture closely. I haven't time to explain as I'm on my way out the door, but Fr. Saunders covers it nicely, with the appropriate verses cited. It's worth taking a look at, as the verses Fr. Saunders shares are the ones I'd of shared anyway :p. http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/brosis.htm

She gave birth to Jesus who was conceived by the Holy Spirit who gave the Divine nature to Jesus, not mary. (I'm not even going to capitalize her name anymore as she isn't important enough to do so).
On this I agree. However, you see it as contradictory to Mary's title as Theotokos or Mother of God. I, however, don't because I don't believe Jesus was two natures in one form. It isn't like the Incarnation of Our Lord is a cheese and tomato sandwich, with the cheese as His human nature and the tomato as His divine nature, and you can pick them apart. Rather, He is the entire tomato.

Lol, apologies for the food references, I'm starving.

Then mary's Mother must have been conceived without Original Sin also, and her Mother before her and so on, back to Eve.
Really? Really? You're going to tell Jesus who He can and cannot save and when? Jesus saved Mary at her birth, decades before Calvary, just as He saves us now, centuries after Calvary.


Not in the Bible.

Quest
Many things that Christians believe, of any denomination or persuasion, are not specifically explained in the Bible. That is why we have theology, because the Scriptures can at times be cryptic, contradictory on the surface, etc. The doctrine of the Assumption is based on the historic teaching of the Church down the centuries, the scholastic arguments in favor of it, and interpretations of biblical sources.
 
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shanaynay-deleted

Guest
#79
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[FONT=&quot]Following through with logic is an important step in determining the reasonableness and truth of doctrine. Declaring that Mary is merely the mother of Jesus, the man, denies His divinity. According to the Incarnation of Christ, a doctrine accepted by Catholic and Protestant Christians, Christ is fully human and fully God. In addition, according to the doctrine, you cannot separate the two. This means that referring to Mary as the mother of Jesus means the same thing as calling her the mother of God. [/FONT]

God= father
Jesus = son

Together they are in unity residing in heaven.

Jesus referred to his father as greater than he was when he was upon the earth. He also made many references about going to see his father, praying to his father, etc. Jesus is our savior. He is the example for us to live in and under. He is salvation.

Are understanding is relative to our human existence and it maybe hard for us to understand this oneness like that Jesus spoke of, like a genuine christian marriage- complete unity.

When Jesus refers to his father and him being one, it is when he returned to be with his father and their united relationship.

Mary was a human.

Mary was not supernatural or like God/Jesus/Angels-spirit.

We are to put our eyes on Jesus. Not Idolatry
 
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