Mary the mother of my Lord (Heresy?)

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Sep 8, 2012
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Rock022 said - Can you show me where does the catholic church teach us that Mary a God?

Did you not call her the Queen of Heaven?
If you didn't I know you agreed with someone on this thread who did.
Answer me this,.....what is a queen?
Now, who is the 'queen of heaven'? - (Monarch of the heavens)
Who is the queen of heaven?
Who is the female monarch of the spiritual realm?
Can you answer me that?
Simple enough.
 
Jan 11, 2013
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Luke 1:42-43
How can we deny Mary the mother of God when it is clearly written? It can not be more clear than this. To think otherwise is to say the bible is wrong.

KJV
Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

21 century KJV
And she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And why is it granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

NIV
In a loud voice she called out, “God has blessed you more than other women. And blessed is the child you will have! 43 But why is God so kind to me? Why has the mother of my Lord come to me?

Amplified Bible
And she cried out with a loud cry, and then exclaimed, Blessed (favored of God) above all other women are you! And blessed (favored of God) is the Fruit of your womb!
43 And how [have I deserved that this honor should] be granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Regarding Luke1:43, which Lord was Elizabeth referring to?

The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1
 
Nov 22, 2012
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Where does the bible say Joseph was Mary's uncle?
Show us please.
Did u read what i have posted?U wont find it in Bible,because it wasn't mentioned.But from testimony of Mary and Joseph,Church knew who was he to her.
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Oh,....I'm sorry I overlooked your eastern orthodox church dogma.
But still, I must ask you Geometar the same question.
Where in the canonical books is it stated that Joseph was Mary's uncle?
Show one place please?
Do you not see how you are following the traditions of men?
Do you not yet see that?
Some claim Joseph of Arimathea was Mary's great uncle.
But not Joseph her husband.
Explain please how Joseph the carpenter who Mary was betrothed to was infact her uncle.
It's not there.
Infact it's not anywhere, even in the farthest flung algorithm of church lore it's not there.
No where is Joseph, the husband of Mary ever claimed to be her uncle.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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Do u understand that isn't something what someone made up,but real fact?
Let we use example of present days,u or me.Are only we know whose r our uncles or family,or that know our friends?What is so strange in it?
 
Sep 8, 2012
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What isn't made up?
Men are mistaken Geometar.
Others hold to those vain traditions.
It's called building your house on sand.
There is plenty of sand.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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Ok,if that house is on sand as u say,why that house haven't gone in the sand,but it standing for 2000years as only oasis of peace of God in this world,unique and unchanged?
And on the west,i can see today hundreds of different churches.
Why?
 
Sep 8, 2012
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Because your house is fraught with symbols and vain religious traditions.
I can tell from both your words and the avatar you use.
What did Jesus say about tassels?
What did He say about the outward robes of righteousness?
See his statement on the phylacteries of the pharisees. - Matt.23:5
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
The Sacred Tradition concerning these matters is certainly derived from Mary's own testimony and, like all things in the Church, it is guided and guarded by the indwelling Holy Spirit. Mary was, in fulfilment of the Mosaic Law, betrothed to Joseph, an older man who was in fact her own uncle (as the Holy Spirit guided Sacred Tradition tells us). Thus their "marriage" was a marriage which, according to the Mosaic Law did not allow for sexual intercourse between them, because she was the bearer of the inheritance, her Firstborn, the Messiah.
I want to check this with you. You are saying that

1. Mary was betrothed to her uncle, because God knew ahead of time that she was to be the Mother of God, so He arranged it that way?

2. Or are you saying that there is a Mosaic Law covering the case that the bearer of the Messiah may not have intercourse after?

If 2., please provide the Scripture.

If 1, then please answer, did Joseph know before he accepted the betrothal contract, that Mary was to be mother of the Messiah?
A. If he did, then why did he need a dream to tell him this was what had happened?
B. If he did not, why would he, as a righteous man, allow himself to become the instrument by which a woman who was not expected to become the mother of Messiah, was never to be allowed to have intercourse. For a woman not to have a child in Israel was considered a major disgrace, like Sarah, Rachel, Elizabeth, and Michal, for example. A righteous man would not do that to his niece.
 
Nov 22, 2012
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Because your house is fraught with symbols and vain religious traditions.
I can tell from both your words and the avatar you use.
What did Jesus say about tassels?
What did He say about the outward robes of righteousness?
See his statement on the phylacteries of the pharisees. - Matt.23:5

Those people on this Holy Icon are Holy Fathers of the 1st Ecumenical Council.And according to them,on you and your church is anathema.

“Those who sow with tears shall reap with exceeding joy.” Psalm 125.5 (126.5)

Some may wonder what the tassel is for on the end of a prayer rope. The Tassel is for our tears or to remind us to weep over our sins. Holy Scripture and the Fathers of the Church speak often of the gift of tears. The Fathers teach us that tears are not something we create but are a gift from God. Monks using the prayer rope use the tassel to wipe away their tears after saying the Jesus Prayer.

The tassel also reminds us of Holy Tradition. From the Old Testament times, little tassels have been a decoration for sacred vestments, a reminder of the sacred tradition in which we participate when we use the prayer rope.”

I dont know what u mean by 2nd question?
 
Nov 22, 2012
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I want to check this with you. You are saying that

1. Mary was betrothed to her uncle, because God knew ahead of time that she was to be the Mother of God, so He arranged it that way?

2. Or are you saying that there is a Mosaic Law covering the case that the bearer of the Messiah may not have intercourse after?

If 2., please provide the Scripture.

If 1, then please answer, did Joseph know before he accepted the betrothal contract, that Mary was to be mother of the Messiah?
A. If he did, then why did he need a dream to tell him this was what had happened?
B. If he did not, why would he, as a righteous man, allow himself to become the instrument by which a woman who was not expected to become the mother of Messiah, was never to be allowed to have intercourse. For a woman not to have a child in Israel was considered a major disgrace, like Sarah, Rachel, Elizabeth, and Michal, for example. A righteous man would not do that to his niece.

I will ask u,what u think,did God had plan for salvation of man kind?If HE had a plan,what was foretold in Old Testament?Does the Prophets spoke one and true was something alse,or did it was as it was foretold?Does everything what happening to us is God will?

I will post u something which will give u an answer.

The Entrance of the Theotokos







The Virgin appears openly in the temple of God and foretells Christ to all. So let us cry to her with loud voices: Rejoice, thou who art the fulfillment of the Creator's providence.

Today in the Holy Orthodox Church we celebrate the feast of the Entrance of the Theotokos into the Temple. Leading the procession into the Temple were virgins with lighted tapers in their hands, then the three-year-old Most-holy Virgin, led by her father and mother. The virgin was clad in vesture of royal magnificence and adornments as was befitting the “King’s daughter, the Bride of God” (Psalm 44:13-15).

Following them were many kinsmen and friends, all with lighted tapers. Fifteen steps led up to the Temple. Joachim and Anna lifted the Virgin onto the first step, then she ran quickly to the top herself, where she was met by the High Priest Zachariah, who was to be the father of St. John the Forerunner. Taking her by the hand, he led her not only into the Temple, but into the “Holy of Holies,” the holiest of holy places, into which no one but the high priest ever entered, and only once each year, at that. Zachariah “was outside himself and possessed by God” when he led the Virgin into the holiest place in the Temple, beyond the second curtain—otherwise, his action could not be explained.


The Most-holy Virgin remained in the Temple and dwelt there for nine full years. While her parents were alive, they visited her often. When God called her parents from this world, the Most-holy Virgin was left an orphan and did not wish to leave the Temple until death or to enter into marriage. The Most-holy Virgin Mary was the first of such life-vowed virgins, of the thousands and thousands of virgin men and women who would follow her in the Church of Christ.


Through her intercessions, O Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy upon us, and save us. Amen.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
I will ask u,what u think,did God had plan for salvation of man kind?If HE had a plan,what was foretold in Old Testament?Does the Prophets spoke one and true was something alse,or did it was as it was foretold?Does everything what happening to us is God will?

I will post u something which will give u an answer.
I am awaiting your answer. I believe in God's plan, and that He controls everything. But I think tradition is uneven, and needs to be evaluated for who said what. Scripture has been evaluated for each word, and we know the Holy Spirit said it all. I think it unlikely Joseph would have accepted the betrothal to a virgin, without expecting her to be able to have children, because he was a righteous man.
 
Q

quickfire

Guest
I am awaiting your answer. I believe in God's plan, and that He controls everything. But I think tradition is uneven, and needs to be evaluated for who said what. Scripture has been evaluated for each word, and we know the Holy Spirit said it all. I think it unlikely Joseph would have accepted the betrothal to a virgin, without expecting her to be able to have children, because he was a righteous man.
I think your awaiting an i am right answer myself .

Call it mr right call it mr wrong in ok because im mr right .

I know what i want and i want it now.

Innocence of faith born into a faith
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
I think your awaiting an i am right answer myself .

Call it mr right call it mr wrong in ok because im mr right .

I know what i want and i want it now.

Innocence of faith born into a faith
We waited 4000 years for Jesus, and it took the "Church Fathers" 300 years to express their ideas. Surely a few hours won't kill you? Who knows, I might actually agree with Mr. Right? I think we will both still be as innocent and faith-filled then as we are right now.
 
Q

quickfire

Guest
We waited 4000 years for Jesus, and it took the "Church Fathers" 300 years to express their ideas. Surely a few hours won't kill you? Who knows, I might actually agree with Mr. Right? I think we will both still be as innocent and faith-filled then as we are right now.
For all i care he can answer next year
Have you here about having the patience of a Saint i have.
 
Q

quickfire

Guest
.

Kings 20.4 The king of Israel answered, Just as you say, my lord ...
 
Dec 5, 2012
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Rock022 said - Can you show me where does the catholic church teach us that Mary a God?

Did you not call her the Queen of Heaven?
If you didn't I know you agreed with someone on this thread who did.
Answer me this,.....what is a queen?
Now, who is the 'queen of heaven'? - (Monarch of the heavens)
Who is the queen of heaven?
Who is the female monarch of the spiritual realm?
Can you answer me that?
Simple enough.
You still have not shown me where does the Catholic Church teaches that the Blessed Virgin Mary is God. You only state a bias opinion. Does not Revelation talk about the queen of heaven?
 
Dec 5, 2012
885
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Regarding Luke1:43, which Lord was Elizabeth referring to?

The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1
Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the second person in the Trinity. Made of the same substance as the Father.
 
Q

quickfire

Guest
Mother of God". Why catholics believe

The Catholic teaching on this subject is expressed in the papal encyclical Ad Caeli Reginam, [1] issued by Pope Pius XII. It states that Mary is called Queen of Heaven because her son, Jesus Christ, is the king of Israel and heavenly king of the universe. The Eastern Orthodox Churches do not share the Catholic dogma, but themselves have a rich liturgical history in honor of Mary.

The title Queen of Heaven has long been a Catholic tradition, included in prayers and devotional literature, and seen in Western art in the subject of the Coronation of the Virgin, from the High Middle Ages, long before it was given a formal definition status by the Church.

Biblical. Basis of the the queen of heaven for catholic teaching The Roman Catholic Church views Mary as the woman clothed with the sun in the Book of Revelation 12:1-3: [2] "1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads."

For Catholics, the reference to the ark of the covenant immediately prior to this passage(chapter 11, verse 19) confirms the woman's identification with Mary, as she is seen as the ark of the "new covenant" bearing the Word of God (Christ) in her womb, as the old ark carried the Ten Commandments. Catholics interpret Psalm 45, "A Song Celebrating the King's Marriage", as referring to the Messiah, to suggest in verse nine, that Jesus, the Messiah, would have a queen at his right hand. Although Mary was Jesus' mother, she is often portrayed as that queen. Other views are that Psalm 45 refers to the marriage of Jesus to His people, i.e. the church which is called the "Bride of Christ" or that Psalm 45 is simply a celebration upon the marriage of an earthly king, giving thanks to God but not referring to the Messiah. It is also believed by those assigning a special significance to Mary, and believing in her Annunciation, that in Luke 1:26-35 of the New Testament the Archangel Gabriel seems to praise Mary, although she would otherwise be inferior to him.

The Roman Catholic Church generally reasons that the Bible speaks of the mother of Jesus as "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" - (Revelation 12:1). As Mary is a perfect model of the Church, she also represents the Church as a whole. [30] Some non-Catholic Bible scholars interpret these verses to refer not to Mary, but rather to Israel or the Church and they do not view Mary as the Queen of Heaven. They reason that the Bible generally refers to nations and tribes as female characters, as in Matthew 2:18 and Revelation 17 and that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Revelation 22:13), through Him all things were created (Colossians 1:15-17). However, the Roman Catholic Church accepts Revelation 12 as a reference to Mary, Israel, and the Church as a three-fold symbolism through the Book of Isaiah and affirms Mary as the mother of Jesus as the prophetic fulfilment described in Revelation 12 (cf. Isaiah 7:14, 26:17, 54:1, 66:7). [2] These interpretations have not been resolved within Christianity, and are not necessarily accepted by all denominations.

In the Old Testament the term "queen of heaven" appears in a context unrelated to Mary. The prophet Jeremiah writing circa 628 BC refers to a "queen of heaven" in chapters 7 and 44 of the Book of Jeremiah when he scolds the people for having "sinned against the Lord" due to their idolatrous practices of burning incense, making cakes and pouring out drink offerings to her. This title was probably given to Asherah, a Caananite idol and goddess worshipped in ancient Israel and Judah. [31] For a discussion of "queen of heaven" in the Old Testament, see Queen of heaven (Antiquity).