Middle East people
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A
no but i have wondered why you refuse to admit what the Bible actually says.
Jesus says countless times that "your faith has made you well" example: Luke 17:29
It was not the WORKS of this people. It was through grace and mercy GIVEN to them because of their faith in Jesus and God's love through HIM.
Jesus says "I will have mercy not sacrifice"
You talk about fasting and food, when Jesus talks about Spirit and Heaven.
well here read Isaiah 58 about what GOD says about fasting because it is NOT about FOOD that God speaks and hears the prayers of HIS people.
3 ‘ Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and You have not seen?
Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?’
“ In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure,
And exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate,
And to strike with the fist of wickedness.
You will not fast as you do this day,
To make your voice heard on high.
5 Is it a fast that I have chosen,
A day for a man to afflict his soul?
Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush,
And to spread out sackcloth and ashes?
Would you call this a fast,
And an acceptable day to the LORD?
(ok the answer is NO its not in case you got lost reading alll that. that is how most Muslim worship: through that type of fasting, you may correct me if I'm mistaken but you talked about "bow down his head like a bulrush" when you asked about bowing to the ground to pray, and you said that fasting is about food. Well God says its about MERCY and GOOD works, that is considered an acceptable FAST before GOD.)
6 “ Is this not the fast that I have chosen:
To loose the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the heavy burdens,
To let the oppressed go free,
And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry,
And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out;
When you see the naked, that you cover him,
And not hide yourself from your own flesh?
8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning,
Your healing shall spring forth speedily,
And your righteousness shall go before you;
The glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer;
You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’
ok i'm going to help my kids make encouragement/love cards for those far away from home right now. their preschool is sending a package to our solidiers to remind them they are still loved and prayed for at home. I encourage everyone to write cards about God's love and send them to people who least expect it: prisons, nursing homes, orphanages, etc. It's nice to just have a few just to give to people who look like they are having a bad day. we do works not out of FEAR of Satan and Hell but out of LOVE of God who first LOVED US. Praise God who is merciful and great and sent His SON to us for redemption of our sins that those who believe in the name of Jesus might be saved and given eternal life and find comfort through the HOLY SPIRIT.
Jesus says countless times that "your faith has made you well" example: Luke 17:29
It was not the WORKS of this people. It was through grace and mercy GIVEN to them because of their faith in Jesus and God's love through HIM.
Jesus says "I will have mercy not sacrifice"
You talk about fasting and food, when Jesus talks about Spirit and Heaven.
well here read Isaiah 58 about what GOD says about fasting because it is NOT about FOOD that God speaks and hears the prayers of HIS people.
3 ‘ Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and You have not seen?
Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?’
“ In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure,
And exploit all your laborers.
4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate,
And to strike with the fist of wickedness.
You will not fast as you do this day,
To make your voice heard on high.
5 Is it a fast that I have chosen,
A day for a man to afflict his soul?
Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush,
And to spread out sackcloth and ashes?
Would you call this a fast,
And an acceptable day to the LORD?
(ok the answer is NO its not in case you got lost reading alll that. that is how most Muslim worship: through that type of fasting, you may correct me if I'm mistaken but you talked about "bow down his head like a bulrush" when you asked about bowing to the ground to pray, and you said that fasting is about food. Well God says its about MERCY and GOOD works, that is considered an acceptable FAST before GOD.)
6 “ Is this not the fast that I have chosen:
To loose the bonds of wickedness,
To undo the heavy burdens,
To let the oppressed go free,
And that you break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry,
And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out;
When you see the naked, that you cover him,
And not hide yourself from your own flesh?
8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning,
Your healing shall spring forth speedily,
And your righteousness shall go before you;
The glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard.
9 Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer;
You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’
ok i'm going to help my kids make encouragement/love cards for those far away from home right now. their preschool is sending a package to our solidiers to remind them they are still loved and prayed for at home. I encourage everyone to write cards about God's love and send them to people who least expect it: prisons, nursing homes, orphanages, etc. It's nice to just have a few just to give to people who look like they are having a bad day. we do works not out of FEAR of Satan and Hell but out of LOVE of God who first LOVED US. Praise God who is merciful and great and sent His SON to us for redemption of our sins that those who believe in the name of Jesus might be saved and given eternal life and find comfort through the HOLY SPIRIT.
Hi AnandayHya
Let me just clarify.
Without the grace of God no one will enter paradise despite what they do. This is an Islamic belief.
If it is God will then God will forgive any sin on Judgment day except taking partners with God or praying to another god. God will never forgive those.
In Islam we believe that their are different levels in Paradise. Your works determines how close you will end up to God in paradise and how often you will see God. Seeing God is the greatest pleasure.
Now the original discussion concerned which teachings do Christians actually follow. It was Paul that stated don't worry about following the laws while Jesus pbuh stated you needed to do as the Pharisees say not do. Thus Christians follow the teachings of Paul while Muslims who adhere to the laws follow the teachings of Jesus.
Let me just clarify.
Without the grace of God no one will enter paradise despite what they do. This is an Islamic belief.
If it is God will then God will forgive any sin on Judgment day except taking partners with God or praying to another god. God will never forgive those.
In Islam we believe that their are different levels in Paradise. Your works determines how close you will end up to God in paradise and how often you will see God. Seeing God is the greatest pleasure.
Now the original discussion concerned which teachings do Christians actually follow. It was Paul that stated don't worry about following the laws while Jesus pbuh stated you needed to do as the Pharisees say not do. Thus Christians follow the teachings of Paul while Muslims who adhere to the laws follow the teachings of Jesus.
Hi EG
Matthew 5:18-20
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
How did he do this ? You are speaking as if this has already been accomplished . As prophesied by Jesus pbuh, not all will be accomplished until heaven and Earth disappear.
If all was accomplished Jesus pbuh would not need to return. Jesus pbuh still has a lot of work to do.
Matthew 5:18-20
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
How did he do this ? You are speaking as if this has already been accomplished . As prophesied by Jesus pbuh, not all will be accomplished until heaven and Earth disappear.
If all was accomplished Jesus pbuh would not need to return. Jesus pbuh still has a lot of work to do.
A
Pbuh you misunderstand the apostle paul, and base your words on the actions of people who have corrupted the Bible to fit their own perversions.
Paul speaks against NOT following the laws as well.
God sees the hearts of His people, we must all follow the will of God. Do Muslims believe in the Holy Spirit?
and what did muhammad add to the Koran that the Bible had not already covered?
why did he not just translate the Bible? the concept of grace is already there.
what about spiritual gifts? the gift of healing, prophecy, teaching,etc? Is that found in Islam?
if mohammad is the "last prophet" then why does Jesus and the bible talk about God pouring forth upon our sons and daughters in the last days prophecies in the Holy Spirit?
though I think most muslims are wonderful people too much of Islam and what I know of the Koran contradict the words of the Bible. I know the Bible is true for I have tested it in my life.
Pbuh your words sound wise but they just add more questions. I guess I will need to read the koran and see its purpose for myself and pray about it. but at this point it sounds like dangerous heresy that directly contradicts the word of God who says "salvation will come through the Jews" in the form of Jesus Christ who died on the cross.
Do you know what the Bible says of Ishmael and Hagar?
I will be in prayer about it all and leave it in God's hands.
My brothers and Sister in Christ remember God's love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggGwDrxrC2k
Paul speaks against NOT following the laws as well.
God sees the hearts of His people, we must all follow the will of God. Do Muslims believe in the Holy Spirit?
and what did muhammad add to the Koran that the Bible had not already covered?
why did he not just translate the Bible? the concept of grace is already there.
what about spiritual gifts? the gift of healing, prophecy, teaching,etc? Is that found in Islam?
if mohammad is the "last prophet" then why does Jesus and the bible talk about God pouring forth upon our sons and daughters in the last days prophecies in the Holy Spirit?
though I think most muslims are wonderful people too much of Islam and what I know of the Koran contradict the words of the Bible. I know the Bible is true for I have tested it in my life.
Pbuh your words sound wise but they just add more questions. I guess I will need to read the koran and see its purpose for myself and pray about it. but at this point it sounds like dangerous heresy that directly contradicts the word of God who says "salvation will come through the Jews" in the form of Jesus Christ who died on the cross.
Do you know what the Bible says of Ishmael and Hagar?
I will be in prayer about it all and leave it in God's hands.
My brothers and Sister in Christ remember God's love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggGwDrxrC2k
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V
There's a vast number of prison conversions and I'm sure they are not being killed or forced to convert. Many are looking for a deeper relationship than what todays religion has offered. They have united into one body of belief and togetherness.
We should be one body in our relationship to Christ but much of what has happened is nothing more than an religion.
Romans 12:5; "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."
I Corinthians 12;27; "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
We should be one body in our relationship to Christ but much of what has happened is nothing more than an religion.
Romans 12:5; "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."
I Corinthians 12;27; "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."
Sorry EG
I did answer your question. You just did not like the answer.
"being fulfilled" it means the requirement of that "Law" is being accomplished.
Yes that is right. It is being fulfilled present tense. Not been fulfilled past tense. Remember there is another definition of fulfill being to carry out. This definition actually fit fulfilled better in this verse since it is not past tense.
When will it be fulfilled past tense? When the heavens and Earth disappear. In other words at the end of time.
So put down that bacon and follow the example of Jesus pbuh. Leave the bacon munching to the people who follow Paul.
I did answer your question. You just did not like the answer.
"being fulfilled" it means the requirement of that "Law" is being accomplished.
Yes that is right. It is being fulfilled present tense. Not been fulfilled past tense. Remember there is another definition of fulfill being to carry out. This definition actually fit fulfilled better in this verse since it is not past tense.
When will it be fulfilled past tense? When the heavens and Earth disappear. In other words at the end of time.
So put down that bacon and follow the example of Jesus pbuh. Leave the bacon munching to the people who follow Paul.
E
Sorry EG
I did answer your question. You just did not like the answer.
"being fulfilled" it means the requirement of that "Law" is being accomplished.
Yes that is right. It is being fulfilled present tense. Not been fulfilled past tense. Remember there is another definition of fulfill being to carry out. This definition actually fit fulfilled better in this verse since it is not past tense.
When will it be fulfilled past tense? When the heavens and Earth disappear. In other words at the end of time.
So put down that bacon and follow the example of Jesus pbuh. Leave the bacon munching to the people who follow Paul.
I did answer your question. You just did not like the answer.
"being fulfilled" it means the requirement of that "Law" is being accomplished.
Yes that is right. It is being fulfilled present tense. Not been fulfilled past tense. Remember there is another definition of fulfill being to carry out. This definition actually fit fulfilled better in this verse since it is not past tense.
When will it be fulfilled past tense? When the heavens and Earth disappear. In other words at the end of time.
So put down that bacon and follow the example of Jesus pbuh. Leave the bacon munching to the people who follow Paul.
The law said there is a group of things, commanded by God we are not to do. These things are called sin.
Every man woman and child ever to live has failed to fulfill these requirements, For ALL have sinned.
Jesus fulfilled this aspect of the law, By living a life free of sin. He never broke one IOTA of Gods laws given in the law.
The second thing the law shows, that if one does sin, There is a payment expected. That is the shed blood of an innocent. (This is not new to the law. It was shown to Adam (innocent killed for flesh to cover nakedness) and the animal sacrifices repeated throughout the ot up till the law was given) And this Animal had to be perfect without stain or blemish. Which Christ fit this requirement for he was without blemish and without stain (sin)
Unfortunately. The slain animals of the ot law could never remove sin, Otherwise the priest would not have to keep making sacrifice. WHich is what Christ did. He, as the perfect lamb, Was slain once for the sin of ALL mankind (even yours) so that all could be set free.
The fact is, even if you do not believe Jesus sacrifice was according to the law. You must believe that the law condemns you, for you are under sin. God made it clear to Adam, that the penalty of sin was death. Thus the only thing that can redeem us from this penalty is death.
And no. I am not talking physical death, I am talking spiritual death. All men are born physically alive, but spiritually dead. The only way to be made right with God is to have someone who is not guilty of sin die (spiritually) in your place.
You can not die again for yourself. You were born dead. You must be made alive in order to be restored to God. Which can not happen unless your sins (which make you dead) are forgiven.
Again. Study the law. You do not yet quite comprehend the law. You might have a part of it. But you do not have the whole of it.
Hi EG
Yes I have more to learn. We all do.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
In this verse Jesus speaks of the law as being commands.
Matt 23:1-5 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."
Here Jesus pbuh is telling the disciples you need to follow the law. To do what the Pharisees say not do.
With Jesus pbuh needing to pay the sacrifice of others sins you speak of the original sin. The old testament is clear we do not bear the sins of our fathers. I am not sure why Christians ignore some parts of the bible such as the verses above and accept others.
God has installed in us a sense of Justice. Paying for someone else sin goes against the justice that is installed in us.
Yes I have more to learn. We all do.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven
In this verse Jesus speaks of the law as being commands.
Matt 23:1-5 "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men."
Here Jesus pbuh is telling the disciples you need to follow the law. To do what the Pharisees say not do.
With Jesus pbuh needing to pay the sacrifice of others sins you speak of the original sin. The old testament is clear we do not bear the sins of our fathers. I am not sure why Christians ignore some parts of the bible such as the verses above and accept others.
God has installed in us a sense of Justice. Paying for someone else sin goes against the justice that is installed in us.
E
Um, No where in the OT law did it say a thing of a sacrifice for original sin. Wherever this came I can not find it in the law. so it is a doctrine of men, not God
The penalty of ALL sin is death. You can not possibly make up for your own personal sin apart from Christ.
If Christ did not pay for all sin, We all have no hope.
The pharisees were wrong, because they thought the law made them right with God, Which was wrong, It was a symbol. to show our need for a savior. Thats why they rejected Christ.
The penalty of ALL sin is death. You can not possibly make up for your own personal sin apart from Christ.
If Christ did not pay for all sin, We all have no hope.
The pharisees were wrong, because they thought the law made them right with God, Which was wrong, It was a symbol. to show our need for a savior. Thats why they rejected Christ.
i am sorry to squeeze in between you two: pbuh; you say that muslems follow the teachings of christ: but the quran totally contradicts Jesus teachings? how does that work out? the quran does not believe that Jesus is the son of God; that he is just a prophet, because God does not have a wife? am i right? the muslems dont believe that no one can come to God but by Jesus: instead they try to come to God through mohamad. arent these great contradictions?
i can show many more contradictions: what say you?
''wakeup''.
A
Pbuh "God has installed in us a sense of Justice. Paying for someone else sin goes against the justice that is installed in us."
this is the root of your misunderstanding. I could show you Bible verses, but instead I will tell you a story.
If you had a bowl of food, only enough to feed one person and live. You gave it to your child instead of eating it yourself, what would you call that?
the sin was caused by the father who stole the money and ran off with a mistress, but the sin was paid for by the death of the mother and possible death of the child. Is that just?
Here are some Bible verses you might not know or fully understand if you do.
Luke 1:76-78 (New King James Version)
76 “ And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited[a] us;
John 8:23-27 (New King James Version)
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”
And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”
27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father
So who is the HE? that Jesus refers to? the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD who washes away and forgives all sin tho those who believe and abide in His words.
His Word says to reject anyone who does not say He is Christ made Flesh. again it is the statement that we are saved through GRACE not works. God looks into our hearts and we can not lie to God, we can lie to ourselves, we can lie to the world but GOD KNOWS when someone sins intentionally, when they use the doctrine of salvation and grace as a covering for vice.
GOD knows and is not pleased when people pretend to believe in Jesus and does not act in a manner that sets them apart from the world. when unbelievers can point and say bad things about the faith because of their behaviors. they are not true children of God. I do not judge them, their words and actions and hearts condemn them before God. we are told to love even those who would curse us, bless those who would cruxify us, tell the world its sins even though it will hate us for it.
Pbuh though you seek after God's heart, I still question your Prophet Muhammad and his purpose, because that is what the Bible and the Holy Spirit has taught me to do. I will pray for your soul.
God did not give us a spirit of fear and condemnation for the world but Jesus came to save and redemption of the world through His perfect sacrifice for our sins. Jesus taught us this. He says over and over again "by your faith you are healed" will you believe?
Not once in the Bible does He say "by all your good works and all your adhering to the law are you saved." NOT ONCE. If that is what the Koran says then I am deeply troubled for you and my other Muslim friends.
here is God's love letter:
YouTube - God's love letter
will you accept His love?
this is the root of your misunderstanding. I could show you Bible verses, but instead I will tell you a story.
If you had a bowl of food, only enough to feed one person and live. You gave it to your child instead of eating it yourself, what would you call that?
the sin was caused by the father who stole the money and ran off with a mistress, but the sin was paid for by the death of the mother and possible death of the child. Is that just?
Here are some Bible verses you might not know or fully understand if you do.
Luke 1:76-78 (New King James Version)
76 “ And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited[a] us;
John 8:23-27 (New King James Version)
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”
And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”
27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father
So who is the HE? that Jesus refers to? the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD who washes away and forgives all sin tho those who believe and abide in His words.
His Word says to reject anyone who does not say He is Christ made Flesh. again it is the statement that we are saved through GRACE not works. God looks into our hearts and we can not lie to God, we can lie to ourselves, we can lie to the world but GOD KNOWS when someone sins intentionally, when they use the doctrine of salvation and grace as a covering for vice.
GOD knows and is not pleased when people pretend to believe in Jesus and does not act in a manner that sets them apart from the world. when unbelievers can point and say bad things about the faith because of their behaviors. they are not true children of God. I do not judge them, their words and actions and hearts condemn them before God. we are told to love even those who would curse us, bless those who would cruxify us, tell the world its sins even though it will hate us for it.
Pbuh though you seek after God's heart, I still question your Prophet Muhammad and his purpose, because that is what the Bible and the Holy Spirit has taught me to do. I will pray for your soul.
God did not give us a spirit of fear and condemnation for the world but Jesus came to save and redemption of the world through His perfect sacrifice for our sins. Jesus taught us this. He says over and over again "by your faith you are healed" will you believe?
Not once in the Bible does He say "by all your good works and all your adhering to the law are you saved." NOT ONCE. If that is what the Koran says then I am deeply troubled for you and my other Muslim friends.
here is God's love letter:
YouTube - God's love letter
will you accept His love?
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I love it the way Christians feel they are the only ones capable of understanding scriptures. Makes it hard for them to find the right path because they maintain their incorrect understanding despite clear proof showing otherwise.
Thanks for taking time out to reply. I'll have a look at what you have to say AnandaHya. Just a bit hard up for time at the moment.
Thanks for taking time out to reply. I'll have a look at what you have to say AnandaHya. Just a bit hard up for time at the moment.
Remember the birds who left the nest with their stomachs empty and returned full. God will provide if he so wills. In the end their death was the will of God. Their death increases the sin of the father.
Actually in Christianity if the father believes in Jesus pbuh he will still go to heaven despite what he has done to his family. Salvation is by faith alone.
I am working my way through the rest.
Actually in Christianity if the father believes in Jesus pbuh he will still go to heaven despite what he has done to his family. Salvation is by faith alone.
I am working my way through the rest.