Midrash: The LAW - Done Away With?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

Laodicea

Guest
#41
That's all great, but I haven't said anything about ceremonial laws, and what do you think those are? Also where does it say that? I know Yeshua is the passover lamb, so I'm curious, what's your point.

The 10 commandments are called the 'Law of God', while the ceremonial laws dealing with the sacrifices and other things are called the 'law of Moses'. They are different laws
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#42
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

The keeping of the law does not bless us except by this. It brings us to the One whom all blessings flow. If you've ever tried to keep the law you know that you are not capable of it. This brings you to KNOW in your heart that you have to have a saviour to save you from God's perfect law that makes you aware of your imperfection, your sin, and death. But if, through the knowledge of sin and death, this brings you to the saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ I can see how you would find that to be a blessing. But once you have been saved why in the world would you try to put that yoke back on??? Jesus says my yoke is easy and my burden is light. I am weak, but He is strong. I don't know about you but I am tired of looking at sin (that's what law does, it forces you to look at your sin) I want something beautiful. I want to look at Jesus.

God Bless You (Shalom)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#43
That was sweet Grandma, He will keep us and lead us and finish His work in us we are convinced of that. Amen
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#44
thats Grandpa, eh! Thank you
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,242
6,532
113
#45
When the veil of Moses is removed, we still love God's law, but it is no longer condemnation, and because of Jesus Christ, Yehoshua, we smile. Incidentally, many beleive that veil applies only to Jews, not true, that veil is over everyone's eyes who has yet to find Jesus. It shall be the whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved, paraphrased accurately from the Prophet.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#46
When the veil of Moses is removed, we still love God's law, but it is no longer condemnation, and because of Jesus Christ, Yehoshua, we smile. Incidentally, many beleive that veil applies only to Jews, not true, that veil is over everyone's eyes who has yet to find Jesus. It shall be the whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord will be saved, paraphrased accurately from the Prophet.
hi JaumeJ.
well, satan has blinded the minds who believe not: but the gentiles were never given moses, ever.
so that veil is not the one over their hearts unless they were already proselytes.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#47
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

The keeping of the law does not bless us except by this. It brings us to the One whom all blessings flow. If you've ever tried to keep the law you know that you are not capable of it. This brings you to KNOW in your heart that you have to have a saviour to save you from God's perfect law that makes you aware of your imperfection, your sin, and death. But if, through the knowledge of sin and death, this brings you to the saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ I can see how you would find that to be a blessing. But once you have been saved why in the world would you try to put that yoke back on??? Jesus says my yoke is easy and my burden is light. I am weak, but He is strong. I don't know about you but I am tired of looking at sin (that's what law does, it forces you to look at your sin) I want something beautiful. I want to look at Jesus.

God Bless You (Shalom)
thank you Grandpa!
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#49
Christ came to fulfill the law not to abolish it. To a sinner the law condemns. To the believer the law instructs, not that man could do anything in and of himself to fulfill the law in his own strength but to remind us of the finished work of Christ on the Cross as well as the character of the indwelling Christ which inhabits every true believer.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#50
Christ came to fulfill the law not to abolish it. To a sinner the law condemns. To the believer the law instructs, not that man could do anything in and of himself to fulfill the law_________.but to remind us of the finished work of Christ on the Cross as well as the character of the indwelling Christ which inhabits every true believer.
...:)AMEN:) (again).....'cept i took out this part: " in his own strength ":D
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#51
Christ came to fulfill the law not to abolish it. To a sinner the law condemns. To the believer the law instructs, not that man could do anything in and of himself to fulfill the law in his own strength but to remind us of the finished work of Christ on the Cross as well as the character of the indwelling Christ which inhabits every true believer.
This is a strange thing for you to say, because you are saying in one breath that man can not fulfill the law in his own strength, but in another breath you have said that man must keep and maintain God's salvation less he forfeit and disqualify himself of that salvation. Does not the mercy and grace of God, that we have received and testified to by faith, reveal the finished work of Christ and the power of God's salvation to every one that believes? If Christ came to fulfill the law and not abolish it, then truly the salvation that He has provided to sinners, by faith through the cross, can be kept by Him through grace with no exceptions. If the law condemns the sinner then of a surety grace edifies and builds him up in Christ. The law that came by Moses condemns the sinner, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, who came to seek and save the lost and obtained eternal redemption just for them.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#52
This is a strange thing for you to say, because you are saying in one breath that man can not fulfill the law in his own strength, but in another breath you have said that man must keep and maintain God's salvation less he forfeit and disqualify himself of that salvation. Does not the mercy and grace of God, that we have received and testified to by faith, reveal the finished work of Christ and the power of God's salvation to every one that believes? If Christ came to fulfill the law and not abolish it, then truly the salvation that He has provided to sinners, by faith through the cross, can be kept by Him through grace with no exceptions. If the law condemns the sinner then of a surety grace edifies and builds him up in Christ. The law that came by Moses condemns the sinner, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, who came to seek and save the lost and obtained eternal redemption just for them.



INDEED!
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#53
mpaper345, I like what you had to say, but this isn't totally correct, Psalm 51:11b, And do not take your Holy Spirit from me. David makes this plea to God in a prayer of repentance. Which indicates they had the Holy Spirit then also. Shalom
They could not have the Holy Spirit in the same way we can have it in the New Testament,the Holy Spirit working with them,but we have the Holy Spirit working in us and regenerated us.

If they had the Holy Spirit the same as we have the Holy Spirit in the New Testament,then Jesus would never had to come,because it is about having the Holy Spirit,which the blood of Jesus causes us to have the Holy Spirit in the way to provide spiritual salvation,which the Holy Spirit did not provide spiritual salvation in the Old Testament,seeing their sins were not completely removed,and there was a remembrance of their sins every year that they had to deal with again.
 
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
0
#54
They could not have the Holy Spirit in the same way we can have it in the New Testament,the Holy Spirit working with them,but we have the Holy Spirit working in us and regenerated us.

If they had the Holy Spirit the same as we have the Holy Spirit in the New Testament,then Jesus would never had to come,because it is about having the Holy Spirit,which the blood of Jesus causes us to have the Holy Spirit in the way to provide spiritual salvation,which the Holy Spirit did not provide spiritual salvation in the Old Testament,seeing their sins were not completely removed,and there was a remembrance of their sins every year that they had to deal with again.
We can't make such a claim. We don't know how those who followed God in the OT had the Holy Spirit.
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#55
We all are familiar with the greatest commandment, that we are to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, mind and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself. When we do this, all the other commandments fall into place. Is this possible? I have no doubt it is possible through indwelling of Christ in us, the Holy Spirit. Is it probable? Not when the majority of the church has accepted doctrine(s) that claim it is either impossible or unnecessary.

Think about this... Jesus himself proclaim that there is no greater love than to lay one's life down for a friend. He then gave his life on the cross of Calvary that we might be saved. In turn, the early church of the 1st, 2nd & 3rd centuries understood this truth and gave their lives also so that the gospel could spread throughout the Roman Empire and into the far reaches of Europe, Africa and Asia. If you read the testimonies of these great men and women of God, you will notice that they had died to their own sense of self and the lusts of the world long before they gave their lives for the sake of the gospel.

What loving parent would not give or risk their life to save the life to save the life of their child? What loving parent isn't willing to sacrifice his or her own personal needs or desires for the sake of their children? Keeping this in mind, I believe it is very conceivable that a person can keep the greatest commandment but that many martyrs in the past have kept the first commandment through the leadership and empowerment of the indwelling Christ (Holy Spirit).

I personally believe that the reason why modern Christianity over the last couple of centuries looks and acts more like the world than it does Jesus or even the early church which existed during the centuries following Christ's life and death is because we have embraced doctrines of compromise which state that dying to one's own sin and selfishness is no longer required. Now whether or not dying to one's own self is a necessity for salvation, I'll leave that up to you to investigate. However, I know for a fact that we will never have victory over the sin and selfishness that keeps us in mental, emotional or spiritual bondage until we are willing to let go and allow God to remove or world desires and selfish behaviors.

I also believe that because the majority of "believers" do not walk in victory over sin and self to be the reason why the gospel is seldom effective in areas like the United States and Europe where the majority of people view Christianity to be no different than Judaism, Islam, Hinduism or any other of the world's more prominant religions. People consider Christianity no different from any other religion because few Christians actually walk in true, genuine anointing of the Holy Spirit. But why? Could it be that it is our unwillingness to surrender to the work of the Holy Spirit through sanctification and give up our selfish desires and worldly lusts actually grieves the Holy Spirit as scripture implies?

In ending, I know that there are many on these boards who will disagree with me and do their best to discredit everything I have to say. However, if we are truly honest with ourselves and with God concerning scriptural Christianity in comparison to modern Christianity, I believe many will agree with my observations.
 
G

GloryBe

Guest
#56
Christ died so that we have no longer have to bow down to our sin nature through the power and presence of Christ within us, the Holy Spirit.
Exactly what this means... in practical terms... I find to be very confusing. I don't think I'm alone in this. I do understand that the Holy Spirit can change the desires of the heart so that pleasing God becomes what one wants to do rather than pleasing oneself. But is that what this verse is speaking of? Or is it something more? I am not asking about the doctrine of holiness here, so please don't tell me this means we can be perfect. I'm not trying to debate that...but whether perfection is or is not achieved isn't the question I am asking. What I am asking is what is the practical differences between an unbeliever deciding to clean up their life and a believer who no longer has to "bow down" to sin except that the Holy Spirit changes the desires of their heart? My confusion is regarding the scriptures saying that we were slaves to sin but now we are not. I just don't understand what exactly that means in practical living terms in day to day life. I don't question its truth.... but just don't understand it. (I'm not sure if this question makes any sense or not...I am hoping it does.)
 
F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#57
Exactly what this means... in practical terms... I find to be very confusing. I don't think I'm alone in this. I do understand that the Holy Spirit can change the desires of the heart so that pleasing God becomes what one wants to do rather than pleasing oneself. But is that what this verse is speaking of? Or is it something more? I am not asking about the doctrine of holiness here, so please don't tell me this means we can be perfect. I'm not trying to debate that...but whether perfection is or is not achieved isn't the question I am asking. What I am asking is what is the practical differences between an unbeliever deciding to clean up their life and a believer who no longer has to "bow down" to sin except that the Holy Spirit changes the desires of their heart? My confusion is regarding the scriptures saying that we were slaves to sin but now we are not. I just don't understand what exactly that means in practical living terms in day to day life. I don't question its truth.... but just don't understand it. (I'm not sure if this question makes any sense or not...I am hoping it does.)
I understand you completely. The topic in question is certainly easier said than done. I personally believe the key to obtaining victory over our sin nature is our willingness to die to our selfish desires and worldly lusts in favor of God's promises in scripture as well as His will for our lives. I believe once we posess that level of surrender, thus letting go of all the junk, that's when God is capable of placing within us a pure heart.
 
R

rainacorn

Guest
#58
Judaism is something a person is born into, yes? Their inheritance is a physical one of land and it is passed from father to son.

Jesus Christ, however, is for everyone. Those who believe in Him as the savior are not necessarily Jews. We Gentiles are grafted into their inheritance but not bound by their laws and traditions.

I only bring that up because no one else has mentioned it and it seems like relevant context for these posts.
 
G

GloryBe

Guest
#59
I understand you completely. The topic in question is certainly easier said than done. I personally believe the key to obtaining victory over our sin nature is our willingness to die to our selfish desires and worldly lusts in favor of God's promises in scripture as well as His will for our lives. I believe once we posess that level of surrender, thus letting go of all the junk, that's when God is capable of placing within us a pure heart.

I'm just trying to figure out how not being a slave to sin translates into my not being a slave to my cigarette addiction. In practical terms, nothing in reference to my addiction is different other than I am under conviction and I WANT to quit more to please God. My mental, psycological and physical slavery to smoking remains a reality. So...I was just wondering what form freedom from the bondage of sin takes if not a practical one? (I don't mean to be blasphemous here, but only to make my point.)
 
G

GloryBe

Guest
#60
I'm just trying to figure out how not being a slave to sin translates into my not being a slave to my cigarette addiction. In practical terms, nothing in reference to my addiction is different other than I am under conviction and I WANT to quit more to please God. My mental, psycological and physical slavery to smoking remains a reality. So...I was just wondering what form freedom from the bondage of sin takes if not a practical one? (I don't mean to be blasphemous here, but only to make my point.)
I just realized that this subject is derailing the subject of this post and for that I apologize. I will refrain from posting along this line here effective immediately.:)