Millions of years ago ! ?

jennymae · Apr 21, 2015

It is my firm conviction that science and faith should not be mixed together on all levels. From a science view point peer review is cruicial, but peer review can't be done on what is too far away from the frame, or box, so to speak. We need to acknowledge, in my opinion, that science can't answer every single question man can ask. Science is the King of mankind, but even a scientist should not rule out the possibility of a King above mankind itself.

Jason0047 · Apr 21, 2015

There is plenty of Science in the Bible.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge

But we have to realize that God is the Creator of the Universe and He is not bound by the laws of physics (for He created them). So when Jesus turns water into wine, that is a miracle and not something we can repeat in Science. God can do anything He wants and He calls us to have faith in His Word and not in Science so falsely called.

In other words, if one believes in Evolution on some level, it is not because they gained that understanding from the Bible by faith, but because they believe the world and it's false teachings rather than just by taking God at His Word by faith.

Bowhunter2394 · Apr 21, 2015

Jason0047 said:

There is plenty of Science in the Bible.

Eternal Productions - 101 Scientific Facts and Foreknowledge

But we have to realize that God is the Creator of the Universe and He is not bound by the laws of physics (for He created them). So when Jesus turns water into wine, that is a miracle and not something we can repeat in Science. God can do anything He wants and He calls us to have faith in His Word and not in Science so falsely called.[/QUOTE

Faith in His Word, yes the LIVING Word ,Christ, God manifest in the flesh., He that is the Word of God, He that Justifies you by FAITH in His completed Work... at the Tree... He that Imputes HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS upon you WHEN you belief in His Work at the Tree, is the Only Way to be 'saved'.... yes Faith in the WORD OF GOD, Jesus the Christ, God manifest in the flesh, He that has become a Quickening Spirit... some have 'faith' , but its in the LOGOS only , but they dont know the LIVING LOGOS, God manifest in the flesh, He that makes the 'logos" COME ALIVE! Jesus ran into these 'faith in His Word' people when He was here the first time, He rebuked them, because they accused, slandered, were not led of the Spirit, but were children of their 'father', their spiritual father, but fluent and had Faith in God's Word, got so bad they put the Word of God on their clothing, to show everybody how Righteous they really were... but they were not... same today! indeed!

JimmieD · Apr 21, 2015

JaumeJ said:

In Luke 4:18 Jesus quotes a verse from Isaiah 61 - one line of that verse that Jesus quotes is only found in the LXX, along with a few other key differences. This would seem to give strong support that he was using the LXX

Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, [literally: Kurios]
because he has anointed me
to bring good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives
and recovery of sight to the blind,
to let the oppressed go free,

MT-Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, [literally: Adonai YHWH]
because the LORD has anointed me; [divine name used twice rather than a pronoun]
he has sent me to bring good news to the oppressed,
to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and release to the prisoners

LXX-Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Lord is upon me, (Kurios)
because he has anointed me;
he has sent me to bring good news to the poor,
to heal the brokenhearted,
to proclaim release to the captives,
and recovery of sight to the blind

Refs:
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/33-esaias-nets.pdf
NETBible: Isaiah 61:1

Bowman · Apr 21, 2015

JackH said:

He has no logical reply, obviously.

No YEC does...

Bowman · Apr 21, 2015

JaumeJ said:

Jesus always quotes from the OT in the third person regarding what has already been written (past tense).

JaumeJ · Apr 21, 2015

I truly understand what you are saying, as I truly understood the earlier post stating the same crediting the LXX. Now I am certain you understand what I am saying when I say, though Jesus read from Isaiah for the sake of the people present, He really was repeating His very own words, since all prophets wrote down what was given them by God.

Jesus is God; He is the Word,a nd all the rest mentioned in the opening of John's record of the Gospel.

kodiak · Apr 21, 2015

Bowman said:

JackH said:

kodiak said:

No one on the side against young earth has answered my questions yet either....they just try to redirect the question and avoid it....interesting... I asked if judges were always correct and got a quote from a judge on schools teaching creation.....

eternally-gratefull · Apr 21, 2015

ivanc0 said:

At the beginning the sun was colder, and is warming up until will became a red Giant, that is when the Sun will destroy the earth, but by them humans will have mastered hot or cold fusion and create energy that will allow us to live in space. or move to another planet.

6000 years is not possible. is too short for the events recorded in the fossil record, and the millions of species that live and have lived in this planet.

Evolution has been proved 100%, and in my view is the way God created the life in this planet, where evolution fails is when explains the creation of a cell, a cell is a system with hundreds or thousands of parts and to be formed by accident is in reality impossible, so God created cells and allow them to grow and populate the earth.

I am going against the old testament? Unfortunately yes. I do not believe in old testament as a literal story of creation. the old Testament is a mix of legends and history of people in the Israel area.

.... keep your virtual stones in your pockets... Please.

Funny how every time a find of an OT city, place or thing, the OT continues to be proven as fact. Not fiction.

6000 years is not two short. what makes you think that? Modern day quacks who call themselves scientists, Or actual real science?

jennymae · Apr 21, 2015

Judges (and jurors) aren't always correct...their rulings are based upon what is most likely, and in criminal cases if the prosecutor is able to prove that the defendant has committed whatever he is being accused of beyond a reasonable doubt.

Bowman · Apr 21, 2015

JaumeJ said:

That the prophets wrote about The Son, as delivered by The Son, is already a given.

The issue at hand is that YEC’s choose to tally the genealogies as dictated from the inferior MT, and not the superior LXX. This is the heart of the matter…and I would like to know why (other than from astute ignorance by following Bishop Usher et al) young earther’s cling to something so obviously incorrect…

ivanc0 · Apr 21, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Man has measured the speed of light, and also knows about the Doppler effect that for electromagnetic waves like light is valid, produces a red shift in the spectrum of light, also has measured the distance starts and galaxies are from us, and has concluded that the stars are so far away that the distance for its light to travel space and reach us is measured from the closes start "Proxima centaury" 4.2 light years away to The galaxy MACS0647-JD about 13.3 billion light-years from Earth.

To say that God created the Universe 6000 years ago, goes from fanaticism to Ignorance passing trough adjectives I dear not to mention.

And I have not even mention, evolution, fossil record, embryonic replay, recessive genes, geology, seismology, mantle tectonics, radioactivity, Galapagos island, the volume of water volume in the interior of earth, has to be less that the water in the exterior, water in the interior is very hot and will came out with lot of steam, and if busted in one instantaneous event like young earth theory will steam cook Moses and his ark.....too much to say.

JackH · Apr 21, 2015

kodiak said:

No, of course judges are not always correct. Do you still beat your wife?

I said the judge was correct in that case, Kitzmiller v. Dover.

The judge also said the young earth creationist side "distort and misrepresent scientific knowledge in making their anti-evolution argument." From the court decision:

'Before discussing Defendants' claims about evolution, we initially note that an overwhelming number of scientists, as reflected by every scientific association that has spoken on the matter, have rejected the ID proponents' challenge to evolution. Moreover, Plaintiffs' expert in biology, Dr. Miller, a widely-recognized biology professor at Brown University who has written university-level and high- school biology textbooks used prominently throughout the nation, provided unrebutted testimony that evolution, including common descent and natural selection, is "overwhelmingly accepted" by the scientific community and that every major scientific association agrees. (1:94-100 (Miller)). As the court in Selman explained, "evolution is more than a theory of origin in the context of science. To the contrary, evolution is the dominant scientific theory of origin accepted by the majority of scientists." Selman, 390 F. Supp. 2d at 1309 (emphasis in original). Despite the scientific community's overwhelming support for evolution, Defendants and ID proponents insist that evolution is unsupported by empirical evidence. Plaintiffs' science experts, Drs. Miller and Padian, clearly explained how ID proponents generally and Pandas specifically, distort and misrepresent scientific knowledge in making their anti-evolution argument.'

That is exactly what young earth creationists do in this forum - distort and misrepresent scientific knowledge in making their anti-evolution argument.

The beauty of a court hearing is that eventually the young earth creationists have to shut up and the judge judges.

wincam · Apr 21, 2015

ivanc0 said:

Man has measured the speed of light, and also knows about the Doppler effect that for electromagnetic waves like light is valid, produces a red shift in the spectrum of light, also has measured the distance starts and galaxies are from us, and has concluded that the stars are so far away that the distance for its light to travel space and reach us is measured from the closes start "Proxima centaury" 4.2 light years away to The galaxy MACS0647-JD about 13.3 billion light-years from Earth.

To say that God created the Universe 6000 years ago, goes from fanaticism to Ignorance passing trough adjectives I dear not to mention.

And I have not even mention, evolution, fossil record, embryonic replay, recessive genes, geology, seismology, mantle tectonics, radioactivity, Galapagos island, the volume of water volume in the interior of earth, has to be less that the water in the exterior, water in the interior is very hot and will came out with lot of steam, and if busted in one instantaneous event like young earth theory will steam cook Moses and his ark.....too much to say.

go on then tell us about Moses and his ark - wincam

kodiak · Apr 21, 2015

JackH said:

No, of course judges are not always correct. Do you still beat your wife?

I said the judge was correct in that case, Kitzmiller v. Dover.

The judge also said the young earth creationist side "distort and misrepresent scientific knowledge in making their anti-evolution argument." From the court decision:

'Before discussing Defendants' claims about evolution, we initially note that an overwhelming number of scientists, as reflected by every scientific association that has spoken on the matter, have rejected the ID proponents' challenge to evolution. Moreover, Plaintiffs' expert in biology, Dr. Miller, a widely-recognized biology professor at Brown University who has written university-level and high- school biology textbooks used prominently throughout the nation, provided unrebutted testimony that evolution, including common descent and natural selection, is "overwhelmingly accepted" by the scientific community and that every major scientific association agrees. (1:94-100 (Miller)). As the court in Selman explained, "evolution is more than a theory of origin in the context of science. To the contrary, evolution is the dominant scientific theory of origin accepted by the majority of scientists." Selman, 390 F. Supp. 2d at 1309 (emphasis in original). Despite the scientific community's overwhelming support for evolution, Defendants and ID proponents insist that evolution is unsupported by empirical evidence. Plaintiffs' science experts, Drs. Miller and Padian, clearly explained how ID proponents generally and Pandas specifically, distort and misrepresent scientific knowledge in making their anti-evolution argument.'

That is exactly what young earth creationists do in this forum - distort and misrepresent scientific knowledge in making their anti-evolution argument.

The beauty of a court hearing is that eventually the young earth creationists have to shut up and the judge judges.

so judges are not always correct, as you just stated. How do we know that they are correct this time? I have never beat a person. Are you trying to use personal attacks to prove your point?

ivanc0 · Apr 21, 2015

kodiak said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xdlmykLI58

Presentation about hard evidence of young earth, His best evidence is in the bible, specially if it has a hard cover.

and He does not read the bible in the internet, because it needs a Hard copy!

JackH · Apr 21, 2015

kodiak said:

Are young earth creationists always correct?

Please answer the question.

Maybe a review of Kitzmiller v. Dover will help you answer the question.

The judge also said:

"Both Defendants and many of the leading proponents of ID make a bedrock assumption which is utterly false. Their presupposition is that evolutionary theory is antithetical to a belief in the existence of a supreme being and to religion in general. Repeatedly in this trial, Plaintiffs’ scientific experts testified that the theory of evolution represents good science, is overwhelmingly accepted by the scientific community, and that it in no way conflicts with, nor does it deny, the existence of a divine creator."

kodiak · Apr 21, 2015

JackH said:

no, they are not always correct, we are human. There is always going to be inaccuracies in humans. I still believe God created the world how the Bible describes it, not how science describes it. Science is a theory not a fact and has been wrong in the past. Just because science says it is true and that is what the majority says does not make it true....I guess this is where you take a choice. Faith in God and his word, or faith in man and scientific theories. You cannot have two contradicting beliefs at the same time. There are problems in the scientific theories too, but you wont believe it. praying for you.

Pumicestone · Apr 22, 2015

oldhermit said:

Not one book, one paragraph, one sentence, one word of "original text" - Old Testament or New - exists.

M
You rely on man-made copies of copies of copies of translations of copies of translations.
Additions, omissions,

Tintin · Apr 22, 2015

Yes, Jesus quoted from the Septuagint. It was the most well-known, easily read book that His audiences would've known. He wasn't always talking to the learned religious leaders. I think the ages of people in early Genesis (in the Septuagint) is one big knock against it being better than the Masoretic text. It seems to me that the Greeks were influenced by Greek mythology. That's worrisome.

Millions of years ago ! ?

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