misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

[KennethC]

Earlier this month, President Obama challenged high schools across the county to compete against each other in the second annual "Race to the Top” educational success program for the chance to have him give the commencement address at their graduation. Not included in the contest, though, are the more than 2 million students in America’s Catholic schools.If they could participate, the nation’s parochial schools would be fearsome competitors.
A 2009 comparison between public and Catholic school SAT scores show that public school students had an overall average of 496 points on the critical reading portion of the test while Catholic school students scored 533 points on the same portion. Catholic school students outscored their public school counterparts by an average of 23 points.
What makes the numbers more impressive is that Catholic high schools spend more than $2,000 less per pupil than public schools.

That is a quick lazy quote I found from the secretary of education. I suppose I can find more but it is becoming burdensome to keep up with all of these claims you guys are making. I was hoping you might do some of your own research. Please just google something along the lines of children that went to Catholic schools who graduated from college, vs. the public school rate. It may blow your mind. DO NOT USE A CATHOLIC SITE. This way we can acknowledge that it is unbiased.

As for the rest of what you're saying, we must first establish who put the Bible together and who God gave authority to in order to translate it. I have been asking this question over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Nobody will address it.

The Ten Commandments, we can't address this until we figure out which Bible is God's word and which ones are heresy.

So instead of really answering the question you come back with more biased opinions and polls that have no substantiated truth to them. Not to mention you did not even give the source you used, just said the secretary of education; yeah okay.

Then you refuse to answer the question on the 10 Commandments, because your seeking for an answer of which bible is the true word of God.


You do realize that the bible translated to English was done before Catholic's put the bible together, all the Catholic's did was determine which books should be in the completed bible.

Also the only difference between the Catholic bible and the KJV is that the Catholic has extra OT books that the KJV does not. Do those books have extra things really needed that changes or affects the gospel message??? NO

I think you are trying to get people to say the Catholic bible is the true bible over all bibles, yet the problem you will still have is it does not matter which version you read.

Without the Holy Spirit guiding you through the Word you will always get the wrong understanding, as the carnal mind can not understand God.

To try and state only Catholic pope's, cardinals, or priests have this ability is naive and very dangerous. They are human and prone to same bad and false teaching as others, which is why Paul spoke about apostasy.

It seems to me that you don't believe in apostasy since you think the Catholic church is without error...........

Your whole stance is about satan not prevailing against the Church......................The Church is not a building or denomination !!!

 

[Matt210]

The secretary of education at the time was Arne Duncan. This is a two way street, I was assuming you could find this out for yourself if you were curious, as to not ramble on to long.

Next statement, there are multiple variations of the ten commandments, I think we need to look at how the Jewish people understand them from history. The Catholic Bible has not changed them, the multiple Protesant versions have over the last couple hundred years. This goes back to why it is important to find the most accurate translation.


When did the first version of the KJV come into existsence? I am tired, but I will look it up for you if its that important, I think it was around 1600. Why did God wait that long to correct His words?

Next statement, have Catholic priests, bishops, people, etc. done atrocious things. YES. This is a logical fallacy to attempt to make it seem like The Church agrees with these bad people. Every organization on earth has bad people. Lets move past this ridiculous argument. If you wish to know, we feel that God will hold bad Catholics more accountable than anyone because they know the Truth, yet misrepresent it. "To who is given much, much is expected."

Again, I ask anyone out there, may we begin this discussion by figuring out what the "word of God is". Which version is actually the Word of God? If we can establish this premise, it will be much easier to move on.

 

[notuptome]

You guys are killing me, if we can establish which translation is the Lord's translation, then we can begin to dissect individual books and verses and what the Lord is telling us through them.

Please do 2 minutes of research to understand that the Bible is not a simple concept. Many versions say many things. We must first determine which one is God's word and which ones are abominations of man created to fulfill what is convenient to the translator, (example: King Henry VIII, "the Bible does not teach kindly on divorce and I wish to behead my wife, I shall CHANGE the Bible, this version is still used today by many)

Somehow I think you are looking to find a version you like which translates into a version that says what you want it to.

Discussing Spiritual things with natural men is foolishness. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Do you have assurance of your salvation? If you died right now would you be in heaven with Jesus?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KennethC]

The secretary of education at the time was Arne Duncan. This is a two way street, I was assuming you could find this out for yourself if you were curious, as to not ramble on to long.

Next statement, there are multiple variations of the ten commandments, I think we need to look at how the Jewish people understand them from history. The Catholic Bible has not changed them, the multiple Protesant versions have over the last couple hundred years. This goes back to why it is important to find the most accurate translation.


When did the first version of the KJV come into existsence? I am tired, but I will look it up for you if its that important, I think it was around 1600. Why did God wait that long to correct His words?

Next statement, have Catholic priests, bishops, people, etc. done atrocious things. YES. This is a logical fallacy to attempt to make it seem like The Church agrees with these bad people. Every organization on earth has bad people. Lets move past this ridiculous argument. If you wish to know, we feel that God will hold bad Catholics more accountable than anyone because they know the Truth, yet misrepresent it. "To who is given much, much is expected."

Again, I ask anyone out there, may we begin this discussion by figuring out what the "word of God is". Which version is actually the Word of God? If we can establish this premise, it will be much easier to move on.

Your still trying to push your opinionated stance as facts, the bible was translated to English a couple of times by non-Catholic's before Catholic's translated it.

If you are trying to state only Catholic's was given the authority to translate it to English your understanding is faulty.

You do realize all English translations have translation errors in them ???

You are starting to sound the same as a KJV onlyist, as they do the same claiming this bible is the only one without error and all others have issues. They all have translation issues !!!

I am sure you heard of William Tyndale who the Catholic church tried to label as a heretic because he wanted to publish the first mass produced English translation.

The Catholic church for years tried to keep the bible out of people's hands besides that of their priest's, cardinals, and Pope's. I wonder why they refused to let regular members of the congregation not read the word for themselves, have you ever asked that ???

That's right they came up with this false dogma that only their priests and pope's are able to properly translate it, which is completely not supported by the Word of God.

Word of God says the Holy Spirit will guide all believers in His truth, not just a few select people !!!

I know you are going to go with the whole 1611 version, but that has no bearing on what I said as I have seen both the Catholic bible and the KJV. The wording is similar except for a few minor things and a few extra OT books that really have no bearing on the New Covenant gospel message.

Who said anything about rather or not the church agrees with the evil done in the past from the church ???

This has no bearing on the apostasy teaching's that still exist within their dogma's..........


Being a Catholic I am sure you are familiar with Augustine ???

You can easily research how he in the 4th century started the apostate eternal security doctrine, and how he quoted that falling away and apostasy is impossible to do. Yet the Word of God says both do and will happen, and multiple times states this !!!

There is no premise on which version is actually the Word of God, because nobodies answer will be acceptable to you unless they say the Catholic bible.

Like I said before without the Holy Spirit abiding in you and guiding you, it doesn't matter which version you read and study. Your understanding will still be wrong !!!

 

[epostle]

Your still trying to push your opinionated stance as facts, the bible was translated to English a couple of times by non-Catholic's before Catholic's translated it.

If you are trying to state only Catholic's was given the authority to translate it to English your understanding is faulty.

You do realize all English translations have translation errors in them ???

You are starting to sound the same as a KJV onlyist, as they do the same claiming this bible is the only one without error and all others have issues. They all have translation issues !!!

I am sure you heard of William Tyndale who the Catholic church tried to label as a heretic because he wanted to publish the first mass produced English translation.

The Catholic church for years tried to keep the bible out of people's hands besides that of their priest's, cardinals, and Pope's. I wonder why they refused to let regular members of the congregation not read the word for themselves, have you ever asked that ???

That's right they came up with this false dogma that only their priests and pope's are able to properly translate it, which is completely not supported by the Word of God.

Word of God says the Holy Spirit will guide all believers in His truth, not just a few select people !!!

I know you are going to go with the whole 1611 version, but that has no bearing on what I said as I have seen both the Catholic bible and the KJV. The wording is similar except for a few minor things and a few extra OT books that really have no bearing on the New Covenant gospel message.

Who said anything about rather or not the church agrees with the evil done in the past from the church ???

This has no bearing on the apostasy teaching's that still exist within their dogma's..........


Being a Catholic I am sure you are familiar with Augustine ???

You can easily research how he in the 4th century started the apostate eternal security doctrine, and how he quoted that falling away and apostasy is impossible to do. Yet the Word of God says both do and will happen, and multiple times states this !!!

There is no premise on which version is actually the Word of God, because nobodies answer will be acceptable to you unless they say the Catholic bible.

Like I said before without the Holy Spirit abiding in you and guiding you, it doesn't matter which version you read and study. Your understanding will still be wrong !!!

You miss the point. Matt is seeking from you a definition of "word of God" and the one and only "version" where human language, with all its limitations, is 100% truth. Logically, it's impossible. God was involved, but He didn't hold the pen. And He is quite capable of revealing himself by more than one means.

When you remove the Bible from the Church where it came from, it's no longer an inspired book.

It's reduced to a recipe book for opinion salads.

​

 

[epostle]

Again, I ask anyone out there, may we begin this discussion by figuring out what the "word of God is". Which version is actually the Word of God? If we can establish this premise, it will be much easier to move on.

What difference does it make? It's what it actually means to the individual reader. Then he can decide for himself if his propositions are scriptural. . Called the Principle of Private Judgement. It's like going to a hockey game with no referees.

Worse, it's like going to a hockey game where all the players are referees.

 

[Matt210]

What difference does it make? It's what it actually means to the individual reader. Then he can decide for himself if his propositions are scriptural. . Called the Principle of Private Judgement. It's like going to a hockey game with no referees.

Worse, it's like going to a hockey game where all the players are referees.

Please, attempt to go through what you just said. "what it actually means to to the individual reader". Some have interpreted the bible to allow genocide. Do you understand how dangerous that statement is?

I do like hockey though.

The Lord can not logically teach us multiple teachings. There is one truth. The Creator of the Universe does not get things wrong.

 

[epostle]

The Word of God is not limited to versions, or the written word alone. Here is a link to a search engine in Bible Gateway, for "Word of God" You can use any version in the extensive drop down list. It will appear more than 100 times no matter what version you choose. I have yet to find a single instance in the entire Bible where "Word of God" is confined to the written word alone. Maybe somebody can find one.

It begs the question. If "Word of God" is not confined to the written word alone as shown by scripture itself, what's missing?

 

[Matt210]

AGAIN, CAN ANYONE ANSWER THIS QUESTION? I will rephrase it.

Which individual people put together the Bible? I also believe that the writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit,this is not the point.

You guys keep proving me correct over and over. You refuse to answer. Please pray for me, my ego is getting out of hand.

 

[epostle]

Please, attempt to go through what you just said. "what it actually means to to the individual reader". Some have interpreted the bible to allow genocide. Do you understand how dangerous that statement is?

I do like hockey though.

The Lord can not logically teach us multiple teachings. There is one truth. The Creator of the Universe does not get things wrong.

Calm down, bro. It's a literary device called absurdum nauseum, like telling an idiot how smart they are, or the lovely fragrance of your garbage can in the summer. My silly statement was supposed to reflect the stupidity of relativism. But I'll be more careful.

 

[Willie-T]

AGAIN, CAN ANYONE ANSWER THIS QUESTION? I will rephrase it.

Which individual people put together the Bible? I also believe that the writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit,this is not the point.

You guys keep proving me correct over and over. You refuse to answer. Please pray for me, my ego is getting out of hand.

You sure you didn't arrive here in that condition? LOL

 

[Matt210]

Thank you for not answering the basic question Willie.

 

[Utah]

I don't understand the teachings/practice of:

1) Purgatory.
2) Having to confess sins to a Priest.
3) Calling someone other than God Holy Father.
4) Infant Baptism.
5) Putting Mary in a high position equal to God.
6) Why Priests can't marry. - There have been many issues because of this.

I am a Christian married to a Catholic and have many Catholic family members that I married into...I love my family but would like to understand some of their beliefs better. Because in my study of Bible many of the things listed above should be directed to God and not to man or woman. Infants don't know they are sinners and until they can understand why they are being baptized I don't get it... the infant baptism. Personally I think it would be better to allow the Priests to marry because not marrying isn't working for some of them.

Priests are no longer allowed to get married because back in the day when they did, and the priest divorced his wife, she got half the money; when the priest died, she got all the money. Its always about the bottom line, my Lady.

And look at the adverse affects of this; when you deny people the blessings of getting married in order to have a job, the applicant pool for those jobs is narrowed primarily to homosexuals and pedophiles. The former I have no problems with, the latter on the other hand . . .

 

[Utah]

<CORRECTION> to my post....... which I did not catch before the stupid "five minute limit" on editing ran out.

I was wondering about that.

 

[Willie-T]

Thank you for not answering the basic question Willie.

Oh, did you really need that answered? Your questions are worded so much like the classic... "Have you quit beating your wife?" joke that I figured you already knew no one was going to play that game with you.

Truthfully, if I had suspected what an arrogant "donkey" you would turn out to be, I would never have sent you that first post.

 

[Utah]

You guys are really beginning to scare me. This blindly follow the leader thing is what allowed people like Hitler to brainwash the masses and exterminate groups of people. Educate yourselves. Question things, Jesus explicitly instructs you to do so. You guys are allowing scary cults and hate groups to continue to propagate themselves simply because you are to lazy to educate yourself.

I love when elitists criticize the "uneducated" masses and make mistakes when doing so.

You can't make this stuff up!

 

[Utah]

Oh, did you really need that answered? Your questions are worded so much like the classic... "Have you quit beating your wife?" joke that I figured you already knew no one was going to play that game with you.

Truthfully, if I had suspected what an arrogant "donkey" you would turn out to be, I would never have sent you that first post.

Willie! You're now on double secret probation!

 

[Willie-T]

Willie! You're now on double secret probation!

Yeah, I guess you're right. That "Donkey" reference was over the top. After all, someone might have taken that to mean I was calling him a Democrat.

 

[Utah]

Yeah, I guess you're right. That "Donkey" reference was over the top. After all, someone might have taken that to mean I was calling him a Democrat.

Lol!

I wasn't focusing on the "donkey" aspect of it, but that you sent him a post in the first place.

Ouch!

 

[Willie-T]

Lol!

I wasn't focusing on the "donkey" aspect of it, but that you sent him a post in the first place.

Ouch!

Well, it was actually a PM, advising him that perhaps CC was not a place where he would want to be leading a cheering section for Catholics. I foolishly thought I was being kind, so that he might not end up with hurt feelings.