misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

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Jul 4, 2015
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Romans 10:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Sorry epostle but the verse Romans 10:9-10 came from the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of Confession for Salvation came from the Holy Spirit, not the Catholic Church.

Are you epostle trying to take Glory away from the Holy Spirit? Because if you are you have committed an unpardonable sin.

Here is a difficult Doctrine that every Catholic stumbles on.

1. Mary being our Mediator.

1 Timothy 2:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

This verse the Catholics hate with a passion because it proves beyond a doubt Mary is not a Mediator between God and Men. What this verse also proves is all Catholics are Idolaters.

You epostle are an Idolater because you follow Mary, and because you are an Idolater you do not have the Truth in you epostle. Therefore we can ignore everything you say because the Truth is not in you.

The same can be said about Pope John Paul II because he did worship Mary as his god which make him an Idolater who cannot Inherit the Kingdom of God but instead will spend Eternity in the Lake of Fire.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Kneeling to a statue of Jesus is Idolatry!

Exodus 20:4-5
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
 
L

Loco

Guest
Kneeling in front of a statue of Christ, with a proper understanding that He, and He alone, is worthy of worship is idolatry.

That is a viewpoint I have debated before. With Thomas who kneeled before the physical Christ and declared "My Lord and my God."I remain an idolater then, by your understanding. I do not wish to rehash the debate. You may have the last word on this here.

Arrgh, I have to stop enjoying myself and work now.
 
L

Loco

Guest
But, can I call my wife a woman?

Hey, I want copyright to this joke because by the Grace of God I made it up:

Why did Adam call Eve woman?

Well, you've never seen one, and here comes a perfect naked example.

"WO! MAN!"
 
L

Loco

Guest
Oh now I'm lusting after my wife. This is going to be a productive workday I see.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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But, can I call my wife a woman?

Hey, I want copyright to this joke because by the Grace of God I made it up:

Why did Adam call Eve woman?

Well, you've never seen one, and here comes a perfect naked example.

"WO! MAN!"
Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
L

Loco

Guest
Roger, think of your own wife or not at all. Leave mine alone.
 
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Dec 5, 2015
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Kneeling in front of a statue of Christ, with a proper understanding that He, and He alone, is worthy of worship is idolatry.

That is a viewpoint I have debated before. With Thomas who kneeled before the physical Christ and declared "My Lord and my God."I remain an idolater then, by your understanding. I do not wish to rehash the debate. You may have the last word on this here.

Arrgh, I have to stop enjoying myself and work now.
There are no loopholes one can slip through. If one's heart is right with God and he desires to kneel and give thanks and praise and worship the Lord Jesus, he can do it, and if there is such an image before him, he would turn his back on it, to remain right in God's presence. Holy Spirit gives us a deep sensitivity about these things. Apart from Him, there is only a loophole one can try slip through, but it will become a noose, spiritually.
 
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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Roger, think of your own wife or not at all. Leave mine alone.
Pr 26:16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason.

I am not impressed with your impure thoughts. Your wife is not here to defend herself and you should know better than to slander her person as you have done.

There is no virtue in what you say. This conversation is over.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 6, 2015
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Wow. You didn't really answer my questions at all. In fact, all you did was cut-and-paste someone else's answer, almost word for word, from:
You see, this is where you fail to truly understand the beauty our Catholic faith. Unlike your Protestant/non-Catholic sects where there is disunity and confusion, we Catholics on the other hand are in communion with one another. In cause your not sure sure of the definition of "communion" it means: 1. The act or an instance of sharing, as of thoughts or feelings. 2. Religious or spiritual fellowship. 3. A body of Christians with a common religious faith who practice the same rites. 4. Communion Ecclesiastical a. The sacrament of the Eucharist received by a congregation. b. The consecrated elements of the Eucharist. c. The part of the Mass or a liturgy in which the Eucharist is received. So do you get it now????? Communion means being part of a "community", being members in the Body...... the Body of Christ's Church..... The Catholic Church!

And being members of the Catholic Church, we agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches. Unlike your tens of thousands of differnt Protestant/non-Catholics sects, where there is no sharing of thoughts or feelings. No body of Christians with a common religious faith who practice the same rites. No true spiritual fellowship. And most of all.... No Authority! Each denomination/sect interpreting Scripture any way they see fit. All claiming their interprtaton and traditions are correct, and everyone elses are not of the Holy Spirit, so to hell with them.

So you see budman, when you ask me a question reguarding Catholicism, you just as well be asking Pope Francis, Mother Teresa, one of the Little Nun's of the Poor, and yes..... even Father Joe! So if I want to borrow quotes from Catholicanswers.com, Catholicscomehome.com, EWTN, ect. or even Father Joe, to explain or defend our Catholic Faith, you are getting a quote from a member of the same body, the body of Christ's Church.... The One.... The Holy Catholic Church!

You never have an original thought, do you? It's no wonder why you can never be convinced of the truth, no matter how much it is shown to you, because you simply cannot think for yourself. It's not simply a matter of sometimes forgetting to name a source.
I think I've already educated you on that, so get over it! And when you speak of truth, which one of the tens of thousands Protestant/non-Catholic supposedly truths are you refuring too? So get over it.

It's the same with the other Catholic poster here - nothing but cut-and-pastes, until he gets forced into a corner, then he'll simply put whoever put him there, on ignore.
Or are you refuring to epostle? The same epostle where back on post # 675 where you said:

I'll give you kudos to the fact at least you provide links to the source material.
Is that the other "Catholic poster" your refuring too? Sounds like a typical form of Protestant/non-Catholic confusion. :)

BTW, To answer what "Father Joe" wrote:
Hey... nice to see your not falling for that typical, "You shouldn't call Priests Father" nonsence. Way to go!!! :)

No true Christian, for any reason, would kiss a pagan/satanic book. Nor show "respect" to a religion that opposes Christ and is, in fact, anti-Christ, and one that is responsible for sending billions of people into hell - period. Can you even imagine Jesus doing it? If not, how can your "representative" of Christ on earth do it?Jesus, and the Apostles, condemned false religions - they didn't kiss their writings or show respect for them.I think I can speak for all true born-again believers here by saying we would rather die than kiss the koran.
I think my fellow Catholic epostle was "spot-on" with his answer back on post #661. I couldn't have said or "cut and pasted" any better of an answer if I tried. :)
 

Really? It took you almost five months?
Sorry, but when budman says jump, I'm not going to stand there, quivering in my boots asking..... "how high"? No sir-eee bub..... it just don't work that way! It will happen in my time, not yours!

And look when I joined. My posts have been pretty much a drop in the bucket. I apparently have more of a life outside this forum than you do.
Ha...Ha.... you'd better re-calculate that, your numbers are a wee-bit off. :)

Here's what I'm gonna do, Ford. I'll answer one question at a time. Until you can stop cutting-and-pasting your (or shall I say, "someone else's" answers).
Sorry.... can't promise that. I am going to use all the Catholic web-sites available to me, as to explain or defend my Catholic faith. Remember, we are of one Body. However, if I may suggest Budman, by all means, feel free to use (cut and paste) from any of the Protestant/non-Catholic sect web-sites you wish aswell. That is if you can find amoung the tens of thousands of differnt denominations, one that fall's in line with your belief system. Or.... you could use this as a way out of answering the rest of the questions.

"If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." (Romans 10:9-10)
No, this is not answering the question. The question was: "Where is the Sinners Prayer located in Scripture? As it is typical amoung Protestants/non-Catholics, I found differnt versions of the 'Sinner's Prayer', maybe you can educate me which one is right, and which is wrong, or maybe you have your own version.

"Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior. In Your Name. Amen."

"Lord Jesus, I need You. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. Thank You for forgiving my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person You want me to be. Amen."

"Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. I do now receive him as my Lord and personal Savior. I promise to serve you to the best of my ability. Please save me. In Jesus’ name, Amen."

Now I did a search in all the differnt versions of the bible and could not find in one, these words of the Sinner's Prayer in Scripture. Now I'm not saying it is wrong to pray this prayer. I'm just saying, if these words are not in Scripture, why do Sola Scripturists claim all one as to do is recite them to be saved? Would you agree they are are nothing more than tradition of man? (small t)

Also, in responce to the passage you posted Rom.10:9-10, we also have Mtt.7:21; ""Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. and Lk.6:46; "Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I command?

And just let me say, the rest are so easy it's almost laughable. You really need to cut-and-paste more difficult ones. As I suspect you even got your questions from:

Here: Bible Only Christian or Bible Believing Christian? 50 Unbiblical Practices and Doctrines
Nah.... your close, but no cigar! Lets say... after you answer the remaining "easy and laughable" questions, I'll reveal the "cut and paste" source. :) Good luck!
 

Pax Christi
 
Dec 5, 2015
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You see, this is where you fail to truly understand the beauty our Catholic faith.
Worship your faith if you want. Keep putting it up there above Jesus, and set it apart from Christians (the title sure does!) It only comes down to idolatry. There is nothing beautiful in the Catholic religion. The only beauty is in the living Jesus Christ, and what He has done for us, and the wonderful personal relationship we have with Him through our living faith (that needs no designation)..
 
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Dec 10, 2015
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I agree the Catholics are one in their Worshiping of Mary as their god. They pray to Mary, they ask Mary to protect them, and they truly believe Mary can over rule anything God says that they do not like.

Clearly God has told us in the Scriptures we are not to make an image of ANYTHING nor bow down to that image.

Nowhere in the Scriptures did God ever say we can make an image of Jesus and bow down to that image.

Bowing down to ANY image is Idolatry!

This is why when you enter a True Christian Church you will never see any Statues or pictures of Jesus or anyone else. Look at the Catholic Church. See all the Statues and pictures the Catholics have that they bow down to. We even have pictures of Pope John Paul II bowing down to statues of Mary all the time.

We True Christians are not into worshiping Idols like the Catholics do. This is what separates us from the Catholics.
 
Feb 6, 2015
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I agree the Catholics are one in their Worshiping of Mary as their god. They pray to Mary, they ask Mary to protect them, and they truly believe Mary can over rule anything God says that they do not like.

Clearly God has told us in the Scriptures we are not to make an image of ANYTHING nor bow down to that image.

Nowhere in the Scriptures did God ever say we can make an image of Jesus and bow down to that image.

Bowing down to ANY image is Idolatry!

This is why when you enter a True Christian Church you will never see any Statues or pictures of Jesus or anyone else. Look at the Catholic Church. See all the Statues and pictures the Catholics have that they bow down to. We even have pictures of Pope John Paul II bowing down to statues of Mary all the time.

We True Christians are not into worshiping Idols like the Catholics do. This is what separates us from the Catholics.
Then you should have no problem showing an Catholic teacing form say the Catechism of the Catholic Church ir the Vatican to back up your firvilous claim that Catholics worship Mary. While waiting for you to bring this up, (will be waiting a looooooong time I'm sure) take a look see at this:
The Catholic Church does not believe any statue or image has any power in and of itself. The beauty of statues and icons move us to the contemplation of the Word of God as he is himself or as he works in his saints. And, according to Scripture, as well as the testimony of the centuries, God even uses them at times to impart blessings (e.g., healings) according to his providential plan.

While it can certainly be understood how a superficial reading of the first commandment could lead one to believe we Catholics are in grave error with regard to our use of statues and icons, the key to a proper understanding of the first commandment is found at the very end of that same commandment, in verse 5 of Exodus 20: “You shall not bow down to them or serve [adore] them.”The Lord did not prohibit statues; he prohibited the adoration of them. If God truly meant that we were not to possess any statues at all, then he would later contradict himself. Just five chapters after this commandment in Exodus 20, God commanded Moses to build the ark of the Covenant, which would contain the presence of God and was to be venerated as the holiest place in all of Israel. Here is what God commanded Moses concerning the statues on it:

And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends (Ex. 25:18–19).

In Numbers 21:8–9, not only did our Lord order Moses to make another statue in the form of a bronze serpent, he commanded the children of Israel to look to it in order to be healed. The context of the passage is one where Israel had rebelled against God, and a plague of deadly snakes was sent as a just punishment. This statue of a snake had no power of itself—we know from John 3:14 it was merely a type of Christ—but God used this image of a snake as an instrument to effect healing in his people.

Further, in 1 Kings 6, Solomon built a temple for the glory of God, described as follows:
In the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. . . . He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the house. . . . He carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees, and open flowers, in the inner and outer rooms. . . . For the entrance to the inner sanctuary he made doors of olivewood. . . . He covered the two doors of olivewood with carvings of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers; he overlaid them with gold (1 Kgs. 6:23, 27, 29, 31, 32).

King Solomon ordered the construction of multiple images of things both “in heaven above” (angels) and “in the earth beneath” (palm trees and open flowers). And then, after the completion of the temple, God declared he was pleased with its construction (1 Kgs. 9:3). Didn't God know what King Solomon had done?
It becomes apparent, given the above evidence, that a strictly literal interpretation of Exodus 20:2–5 is erroneous. Otherwise, we would have to conclude that God prohibits something in Exodus 20 that he commands elsewhere.

Guiding Us Home:

Why would God use these images of serpents, angels, palm trees, and open flowers? Why didn’t he heal the people directly rather than use a “graven image”? Why didn’t he command Moses and Solomon to build an ark and a temple void of any images at all?

First, God knows what his own commandments mean. He never condemned the use of statues absolutely. Second, God created man as a being who is essentially spiritual and physical. In order to draw us to himself, God uses both spiritual and physical means. He will use statues, the temple, or even creation itself to guide us to our heavenly home.
Psalm 19:1 tells us:
The heavens are telling the glory of God; and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.”
Romans 1:20 says:
Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.

Gazing at a sunset—or a great painting of a sunset—and contemplating the greatness of God through the beauty of his creation is not idolatry. Nor is it idolatrous to look at statues of great saints of old in order to honor them for the great things God has done through them. It is no more idolatrous for us to desire to imitate their holy lives and honor them than it was for St. Paul to exhort the Corinthians to imitate his own holy life (1 Cor. 4:16) and to “esteem very highly” those who were “over [the Thessalonians] in the Lord and admonish [them]” (1 Thess. 5:12–13).

Jesus Is the Reason:

It is Jesus Christ himself who gives us the ultimate example of the value of statues and icons. Indeed, Christ, in his humanity, has opened up an entirely new economy of iconography and statuary. Christ becomes for us the ultimate reason for all representations of the angels and saints. Why do we say this? Colossians 1:15 tells us Christ is, “The image (Gr.-icon) of the invisible God.” Christ is the ultimate icon! And what does this icon reveal to us? He reveals God the Father. When Jesus said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father,” in John 14:9, he does not mean that he is the Father. He isn’t. He’s the Son. Hebrews 1:3 tells us Christ “reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature.” That is the essence of what statues and icons are. Just as “the word became flesh” (John 1:14) and revealed the Father to us in a manner beyond the imaginings of men before the advent of Christ, representations of God’s holy angels and saints are also icons of Christ who by their heroic virtue “reflect the glory of God” as well. Just as St. Paul told the Corinthians to hold up his own life as a paradigm when he said, “I urge you, then, be imitators of me,” the Church continues to hold up great men and women of faith as “icons” of the life of Christ lived in fallen human nature aided by grace.

Adoration is as Adoration Does:

Many Protestants will claim that, while the Catholic may say he does not adore statues, his actions prove otherwise. Catholics kiss statues, bow down before them, and pray in front of them. According to these same Protestants, that represents the adoration that is due God alone. Peter, when Cornelius bowed down to adore him, ordered him to “stand up; I too am a man” (Acts 10:26). When John bowed down before an angel, the angel told him, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you” (Rev. 19:10). But Catholics have no problem bowing down before what is less—a statue of Peter or John!

Is kissing or kneeling down before a statue the same as adoring it? Not necessarily. Both Peter in Acts 10 and the angel in Revelation 19 rebuked Cornelius and John, respectively, specifically for adoring them as if each was adoring the Lord. The problem was not with the bowing; it was with the adoration. Bowing does not necessarily entail adoration. For example, Jacob bowed to the ground on his knees seven times to his elder brother Esau (Gen. 33:3), Bathsheba bowed to her husband David (1 Kgs. 1:16), and Solomon bowed to his mother Bathsheba (1 Kgs. 2:19). In fact, in Revelation 3:9, John records the words of Jesus:
Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you.
Here, John uses the same verb for “bow down” (proskuneo) that he used in Revelation 19:10 for “adoration” when he acknowledged his own error in adoring the angel. Would anyone dare say that Jesus would make someone commit idolatry? Of course not!

I argue that in a sense, Jesus is saying to those who do not know him, "You can either bow down to my people (respect and honor them) now in this life, or I will compel you to do so in the next. It's your choice." But however you interpret Rev. 3:9, it is probably the clearest example in the New Testament of why bowing does not equal adoring (or worshipping).
This may sound shocking to Christians raised in what has become a very cold Western world that has lost, for the most part, a true affective sense. On one side we have a culture that has become so inundated with everthing sexual, we've lost what the ancient people of God did not so much put to words as they did live from the core of their collective being. They knew how to love and respect each other. St. Paul, for example, encouraged Christians to greet one another with a holy kiss (Rom. 16:16; 1 Cor. 16:20; 2 Cor. 13:12; 1 Thess. 5:26).

"Are you kidding me, St. Paul? Get away from me, pal!"

On the other side, we have a large portion of Protesants who fear any act of reverence directed toward a human or angel will bring the immediate wrath of a "jealous God." How far is this removed from what we saw from Jesus in Rev. 3:9, or from the clergy in Ephesus who we find embracing and kissing Paul after his final discourse to them in Acts 20:37. As the context of these passages make clear, these are acts of affection, not adoration. And, Lord have mercy, they are certainly not representative of anything untoward.

Conclusion:

I suppose the message we should send to those outside of the Catholic Church who don't get why we bow down before, kiss, put flowers in front of, etc. statues and icons, is that we Catholics take very seriously the biblical injunctions to praise and honor great members of God’s family (see, for example, Ps. 45:17; Luke 1:48; 1 Thess. 5:12–13; 1 Tim. 5:17; 1 Pet. 5:5–6, etc.). And we do not change our beliefs because either the world, or certain people who name the name of Christ may walk away from them.

We also believe, as Scripture makes very clear, that death does not separate us from the love of Christ (Rom. 8:38), or from his body, which is the Church (Col. 1:24). Our “elders in heaven” (cf. Rev. 5:8) should be honored as much or even more than our greatest members on earth. So having statues honoring God or great saints brings to mind the God we adore and the saints we love and respect. This is a no-brainder for Catholics. To us, having statues is just as natural as—you guessed it—having pictures in our wallets to remind us of the ones we love here on earth. But reminding ourselves of loved ones is a far cry from idolatry. ----Catholicanswers.com


Pax Christi
 
Sep 16, 2014
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Exodus 20:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP] You shall have no other gods before Me.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

We are NOT to make any image of anything and we are NOT to bow down to that image fordman.

First fordman the Mercy seat was created to hold things inside it. It was not created to be Worshiped, and NOBODY ever Worshiped the mercy seat as their God.

Also the bronze serpent was made to heal all those who LOOKED at the bronze serpent, not those who WORSHIPED the bronze serpent!

The temple was built for the glory of God, not for people to Worship as their God!

Its very sad when so called Brothers in Christ see nothing wrong with misinterpreting the Scriptures to justify their Worship of Mary! Face it fordman, all you are doing is spiting in the face of God to justify your Worship of Mary as your god.

Catholic DO bow down to statues of Mary. Catholics DO pray to those statues. Therefore Catholics do worship Mary as their god.

Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Paying homage to a statue of Mary IS Idolatry fordman which will keep you from Inheriting the Kingdom of God.

You can ignore the Scriptures all you want fordman, but in the end God will judge you for worshiping Mary as your god.
 
Feb 26, 2015
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We have tons of pictures showing Pope John Paul II bowing down to statues of Mary and thousands of Prayers sanctioned by the Catholic Church for Praying to Mary.

So yes fordman you Catholics do worship Mary.

In the True Christian Churches we ARE united in one body as we ONLY pray to and Worship God ONLY!

If find it very sad when a corrupted Church like the Catholic Church tries to shred the Scriptures from God to justify their following of their god Mary.

Face it fordman, you are an Idolater who can never Inherit the Kingdom of God.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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You see, this is where you fail to truly understand the beauty our Catholic faith. Unlike your Protestant/non-Catholic sects where there is disunity and confusion, we Catholics on the other hand are in communion with one another. In cause your not sure sure of the definition of "communion" it means: 1. The act or an instance of sharing, as of thoughts or feelings. 2. Religious or spiritual fellowship. 3. A body of Christians with a common religious faith who practice the same rites. 4. Communion. Ecclesiastical a. The sacrament of the Eucharist received by a congregation. b. The consecrated elements of the Eucharist. c. The part of the Mass or a liturgy in which the Eucharist is received. So do you get it now????? Communion means being part of a "community", being members in the Body...... the Body of Christ's Church..... The Catholic Church!

And being members of the Catholic Church, we agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches. Unlike your tens of thousands of differnt Protestant/non-Catholics sects, where there is no sharing of thoughts or feelings. No body of Christians with a common religious faith who practice the same rites. No true spiritual fellowship. And most of all.... No Authority! Each denomination/sect interpreting Scripture any way they see fit. All claiming their interprtaton and traditions are correct, and everyone elses are not of the Holy Spirit, so to hell with them.

So you see budman, when you ask me a question reguarding Catholicism, you just as well be asking Pope Francis, Mother Teresa, one of the Little Nun's of the Poor, and yes..... even Father Joe! So if I want to borrow quotes from Catholicanswers.com, Catholicscomehome.com, EWTN, ect. or even Father Joe, to explain or defend our Catholic Faith, you are getting a quote from a member of the same body, the body of Christ's Church.... The One.... The Holy Catholic Church!

You know Ford, you could have avoided all that clutter you posted. You took the long-winded way of saying "I am a plagiarist."

You don't just "borrow quotes". You post "reams" of other people's work, and try to pass it off as your own.

Again, it would be a different story if you simply forget occasionally to name a source, or post a link - but that's not your pattern at all.

I think I've already educated you on that, so get over it!
You want me to get over the fact that you are a thief of other people's work?

Sure.

Hey... nice to see your not falling for that typical, "You shouldn't call Priests Father" nonsence. Way to go!!!
Seriously? You didn't notice I put his name and title in quotation marks because I was referring to his writings (and not yours, because you can't manage to think for yourself)?

You're grasping at straws, Ford.

I think my fellow Catholic epostle was "spot-on" with his answer back on post #661. I couldn't have said or "cut and pasted" any better of an answer if I tried.
Umm, he basically said what you initially did; that the Pope was showing "respect" for a gift. He never answered as to why a true Christian would kiss a satanic book, or show any "respect" for a religion that is leading billions to hell. He never answered if he believed Jesus would do such a thing - or any of the Apostles. He's just as much a parrot as you are.

Sorry, but when budman says jump, I'm not going to stand there, quivering in my boots asking..... "how high"? No sir-eee bub..... it just don't work that way! It will happen in my time, not yours!
You didn't answer me because you didn't have a good answer - and still don't - so just can the macho nonsense. I posted it in different Catholic threads you frequented and you bailed each time.

Sorry.... can't promise that. I am going to use all the Catholic web-sites available to me, as to explain or defend my Catholic faith.
Once a plagiarist, always a plagiarist, huh?

Ford, you didn't name your sources because you aren't intelligent enough yourself to explain what you believe in a convincing manner. You depend on others to do the heavy intellectual lifting for you, so you won't come off as a fool.
 
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We have tons of pictures showing Pope John Paul II bowing down to statues of Mary and thousands of Prayers sanctioned by the Catholic Church for Praying to Mary.
Well goody for you M.H! So then you should have no problem finding official evidence from any Catholic source to support your claim of Catholic Saint worship, i.e. The Vatican, The Catechism of the Catholic Church, ect....
 

Now while I'm waiting for you to produce such evidence, (which will be quite some time) I "Can" produce evidence supporting our claim the we Catholics "Do Not" worship The Blessed Virgin Mary or any other of the Saints. Our Catechism has an entire section devoted to "You Shall Have No Other Gods Before Me", and the topic of worship and adoration of God is discussed in several places.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

IV. "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . ."

2129: The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: "Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure...."[66] It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. "He is the all," but at the same time "he is greater than all his works."[67] He is "the author of beauty."[68]

2130: Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.[69]

2131: Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

2132: The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."[70] The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:
Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.[71]

And yes budman,,A cut and paste from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. :)


While you are struggling trying to find the fictitious documentation of Catholic Saint worship, let me ask you. What is your definition of "worship"? Is it your belief that prayer is Synonymous with Worship?
 
 

Pax Christi
 
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You know Ford, you could have avoided all that clutter you posted. You took the long-winded way of saying "I am a plagiarist."

You don't just "borrow quotes". You post "reams" of other people's work, and try to pass it off as your own.

Again, it would be a different story if you simply forget occasionally to name a source, or post a link - but that's not your pattern at all.



You want me to get over the fact that you are a thief of other people's work?

Sure.



Seriously? You didn't notice I put his name and title in quotation marks because I was referring to his writings (and not yours, because you can't manage to think for yourself)?

You're grasping at straws, Ford.



Umm, he basically said what you initially did; that the Pope was showing "respect" for a gift. He never answered as to why a true Christian would kiss a satanic book, or show any "respect" for a religion that is leading billions to hell. He never answered if he believed Jesus would do such a thing - or any of the Apostles. He's just as much a parrot as you are.



You didn't answer me because you didn't have a good answer - and still don't - so just can the macho nonsense. I posted it in different Catholic threads you frequented and you bailed each time.



Once a plagiarist, always a plagiarist, huh?

Ford, you didn't name your sources because you aren't intelligent enough yourself to explain what you believe in a convincing manner. You depend on others to do the heavy intellectual lifting for you, so you won't come off as a fool.
So Budman, does all this blather mean your not going to answer the remaining "easy and laughable" questions?

Pax Christi
 
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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So Budman, does all this blather mean your not going to answer the remaining "easy and laughable" questions?

Pax Christi
 
who said this?



    1. Doa-Doa Kepada Bunda Maria - Ekaristi Dot Org

      www.ekaristi.org/doa/dokumen.php?...


      Delivery Prayer To Mary Hymns Bakti, 1991, No. 52

    1. Holy Mary, Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, thou art Queen's noblest. so good you became queen of us all. Show (Tunjukanlah) to us the path to holiness and guide us so as not to get lost.
      Take charge of our mind, so we're just looking for the right.
      We will be over, so we just want good.
      Take charge of our hearts, that we love one another as a brother.
      Overcome ourselves each and all family members.
      Overcome all members of society, every nation and world dignitaries.
      May they strap you into them all in a firm unity.
      Overcome all mankind.
      Open to the path of faith for those who are not familiar with your Son, Jesus.
      Help for all nations to have a united, harmonious and peaceful life.
      Watch over (Naungilah) all mankind, especially the persecuted and hounded.
      They bear it in oppression and enlighten those in darkness, in order to remain faithful to Jesus, your son.
      Present (Hantarlah) all our petition to thy Son, the Maharaja, king of peace, where every prayer of the petition is granted, every load lightened hearts and infirmities healed.
      I hope people who know His power and put hope in Him. occasionally see the royal splendor of thy Son, who with the Father and the Holy Spirit lives and power, now and all time. Amen
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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So Budman, does all this blather mean your not going to answer the remaining "easy and laughable" questions?

Pax Christi
 
who said this?


  1. 110. Venerable Brethren, may the Virgin Mother of God hear the prayers of Our paternal heart - which are yours also - and obtain for all a true love of the Church - she whose sinless soul was filled with the divine spirit of Jesus Christ above all other created souls, who "in the name of the whole human race" gave her consent "for a spiritual marriage between the Son of God and human nature."[216] Within her virginal womb Christ our Lord already bore the exalted title of Head of the Church; in a marvelous birth she brought Him forth as the source of all supernatural life, and presented Him newly born, as Prophet, King and Priest to those who, from among Jews and Gentiles, were the first to come to adore Him. Furthermore, her only Son, condescending to His mother's prayer in "Cana of Galilee," performed the miracle by which "his disciples believed in Him."[217] It was she, the second Eve, who, free from all sin, original or personal, and always more intimately united with her Son, offered Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father for all the children of Adam, sin-stained by his unhappy fall, and her mother's rights and her mother's love were included in the holocaust. Thus she who, according to the flesh, was the mother of our Head, through the added title of pain and glory became, according to the Spirit, the mother of all His members. She it was through her powerful prayers obtained that the spirit of our Divine Redeemer, already given on the Cross, should be bestowed, accompanied by miraculous gifts, on the newly founded Church at Pentecost; and finally, bearing with courage and confidence the tremendous burden of her sorrows and desolation, she, truly the Queen of Martyrs, more than all the faithful "filled up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ...for His Body, which is the Church";[218] and she continues to have for the Mystical Body of Christ, born of the pierced Heart of the Savior,[219] the same motherly care and ardent love with which she cherished and fed the Infant Jesus in the crib.

    in the Mystici Corporis Christi [FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Segoe, sans-serif]ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII [/FONT]
    [FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Segoe, sans-serif]ON THE MISTICAL BODY OF CHRIST[/FONT]