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how do you know what good works they are doing with the rest of their lives?
created in Christ Jesus for good works - that's doing what God says is right.
from serving your neighbor to loving your spouse.
all good works.
do we need revivals and events and dreams and wonders 24/7?
or faithful peaceable lives?
created in Christ Jesus for good works - that's doing what God says is right.
from serving your neighbor to loving your spouse.
all good works.
do we need revivals and events and dreams and wonders 24/7?
or faithful peaceable lives?
K
None of the above. It is an example. I know of people with that dream, in all the forms you mention. My dream is to get people excited about letting Jesus come alive in them, inlcuding the Messianic Jews who tried and failed to bring a congregation a bare 20 miles across a state line. I live in a town with 80 churches for 10,000 people, and ghost hunters are taking over the economy bit by bit, and no one is noticing.
I hear you. that you were hurt by counterfeits. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about enthusiasm for the Kingdom of God, which almost none of these 80 churches have. And I'm talking about enthusistic people for the kingdom of God, being systematically thrown out of churches when they enthusiastically suggest things in the Bible, because enthusiasm threatens the status quo. That's what I live with, and that's where dreams come from.
I hear you. that you were hurt by counterfeits. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about enthusiasm for the Kingdom of God, which almost none of these 80 churches have. And I'm talking about enthusistic people for the kingdom of God, being systematically thrown out of churches when they enthusiastically suggest things in the Bible, because enthusiasm threatens the status quo. That's what I live with, and that's where dreams come from.
Kenisyes, why don't you start a Messanic congregation? One that is one fire for God, because you are on fire for God. Why do you need a prophecy or a vision to do that?
Why does on fire have to be loud, noisy and confused?
Why can't on fire be people gathering together in one accord, and receiving the truth of God's word to spread the gospel?
Why does on fire have to be loud, noisy and confused?
Why can't on fire be people gathering together in one accord, and receiving the truth of God's word to spread the gospel?
I really don't see anything that needs to be "untangled". Sure I know what "last days" mean, but I can assure you my definition is not the same as yours. . .(Strong's Concordance - 3) the last day of this present age, the day Christ will return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment and perfect his kingdom) So last days would be in these last days before Christ returns - God will pour out his Spirit, etc.
Ok. Like I said that is not my understanding of "last days." Acts is the beginning of the "Church", the body of Christ; the OT temple system was rent in two (ended) when Jesus gave up his spirit.
Yes, I believe that revelation as far as scripture is concerned is complete. Do I believe that God will use someone to speak to me with words of encouragement and edification if I am going through something difficult. . .Yes, I do. Prophesy can be either foretelling or forthtelling. . .the difference is: Scripture is foretelling - telling what is going to happen in the future. Forthtelling is giving a message of encouragement or edification to a specific person or group present. Anyway, we will never see eye to eye on this one!
No, but someone now within this day and time may ask me to bring him his coat, bible and notepad. . .lol. . .same meaning just updated words.
Correct, I believe in the above after - "Those revelatory gifts had their purpose for a season in the early church" - 
Ok. Like I said that is not my understanding of "last days." Acts is the beginning of the "Church", the body of Christ; the OT temple system was rent in two (ended) when Jesus gave up his spirit.
Yes, I believe that revelation as far as scripture is concerned is complete. Do I believe that God will use someone to speak to me with words of encouragement and edification if I am going through something difficult. . .Yes, I do. Prophesy can be either foretelling or forthtelling. . .the difference is: Scripture is foretelling - telling what is going to happen in the future. Forthtelling is giving a message of encouragement or edification to a specific person or group present. Anyway, we will never see eye to eye on this one!
No, but someone now within this day and time may ask me to bring him his coat, bible and notepad. . .lol. . .same meaning just updated words.
Those revelatory gifts had their purpose for a season in the early church.
We now have the complete revelation in the Bible.
Do you believe the Bible is a complete revelation?
Is the bible incomplete and still in need of a few extra books or chapters?
I think your answer to those questions puts you and me in agreement.
We now have the complete revelation in the Bible.
Do you believe the Bible is a complete revelation?
Is the bible incomplete and still in need of a few extra books or chapters?
I think your answer to those questions puts you and me in agreement.
1
Well I don't know how authoritative Strongs is.
The inspired NT writers referred to THEIR times as the last days.
Because it was the last days of the OT covenant that was fading away.
Here are some verses.
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [SUP]2 [/SUP]has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; [SUP]3 [/SUP]who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[SUP][a][/SUP] purged our[SUP][b][/SUP] sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
1 Peter 1
[SUP]19 [/SUP]but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. [SUP]20 [/SUP]He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you [SUP]21 [/SUP]who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
1 John 2
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[SUP][a][/SUP] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
The early church viewed themselves as being in the last times of what was passing away...
2 Cor 3
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech—
Heb 8
[SUP]13 [/SUP]By saying, a new covenant, He has declared that the first is old. And what is old and aging is about to disappear.
See how that all fits together?
In Matthew 24 Jesus told them of a coming judgement on that generation that would destroy the temple system. Making the old system gone for good.
In John 4 Jesus tells of a day when Jerusalem won't matter anymore.
The last days they referred to were the last days of the old covenant and temple system. They expected it to end because Jesus told them it would.
So when they speak of things passing and of last days, it's in relation to the last days of the old covenant and temple that were indeed passing.
Many miss this because they demand that we be in the center of everything.
1
It sure does.
And we can benefit from all that edifying/encouraging prophecy today.
How?
By reading it as it's revealed in the Bible.
When Paul wrote that, the full revelation wasn't yet given.
So that gift was needed.
But now we have the full revelation in the Bible.
We can read all that edifying stuff in its fullness right in our Bible.
You do believe new scripture and new revelation have ceased don't you?
And we can benefit from all that edifying/encouraging prophecy today.
How?
By reading it as it's revealed in the Bible.
When Paul wrote that, the full revelation wasn't yet given.
So that gift was needed.
But now we have the full revelation in the Bible.
We can read all that edifying stuff in its fullness right in our Bible.
You do believe new scripture and new revelation have ceased don't you?
1
Okay. The old covenant and the temple passed away when Jesus said "it is finished". . .plain and simple. The end of the old system. . The beginning of the "new system" or new covenant - the church, the body of Christ with Christ as the head.
I guess I want to be in the center of everything!
I guess I want to be in the center of everything!
But the realization of that wasn't realized until 70AD when the temple actually came down.
I mean technically we are seated in heavenly places with Christ...
Ephesians 2
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
But we're still sittin down here on Earth. That part hasn't been realized.
Everything is technically subjected to Jesus, but we don't see the realization of that yet.
Heb 2
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and subjected everything under his feet.[SUP][c][/SUP]
For in subjecting everything to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. As it is, we do not yet seeeverything subjected to him.
So yes, when Christ said it is finished, technically it was. But like the verses above it wasn't fully realized. But when ad 70 came and the temple came down it was fully realized.
Hence all the NT talk about things still passing away, and being in the last days and such.
Okay. The old covenant and the temple passed away when Jesus said "it is finished". . .plain and simple. The end of the old system. . The beginning of the "new system" or new covenant - the church, the body of Christ with Christ as the head.
I guess I want to be in the center of everything!
I guess I want to be in the center of everything!
The new system fulfilled. That word is translated by some to mean ended, not as the bible presented it as meaning to fill out. If you fill a cup that is only partially filled, you do not throw away all that was in the cup before, you complete the filling. That is the way God tells us He did with Christ.
When you say that you want to throw out all of God because God gave us His Son, with all that means to us, it is teaching a false way of God. We are to grow, not destroy.