Modern State of Israel: Is it biblical?

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Mar 14, 2011
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well how do you understand scripture? through the Holy Spirit or human reasoning that cannot comprehend the supernatural since they refuse to see it every day of their lives?

28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17
I understand prophesy is given for a reason. To prove God is the True one and Only God of all creation. Because who else can say things will happen hundreds even thousands of years in advance and they happen exactly as he said it would happen.

It is for our benefit, Not Gods. it is so we can see him and have furthy proof (or further no excuse) that he is God. And Christ was his son.

When we take literal interpretation out of prophesy we destroy Gods ability to do this very thing, and in fact, make him questionable. Because he like other gods, can not really intepret the future, He just says a few words. And we look at them, and interpret him as we see fit.

Even Nostradamus could predict the future using this method of interpretation and he was an athiest if I remember right
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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If my people, who are called by my name, humble themselves and pray, and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways I will hear from heaven forgive their sin and restore their land. 2 chronicles 7:14

Who's name, are we talking about Jesus, or Israel. Christians or Israelites. Remember this prohecy was written for the Israelites in the OT. Not everyone who is a christian lives in the land God had given to the Israelites. Who are Gods people...who are 'my people' ...all the descendants of Abraham is that correct? Why is God talking about land. BEcause that is part of his covenant given to Abraham and his descendants. Thats the promise. Is that right?

Remember this was Jesus homeland too. He wept over Jerusalem, He died in Jerusalem. He loved Jerusalem and all of Israel. Even when they hated him without cause.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm try to help. In the verse above, if they are not all Israel which come from Israel, who then are the two Israels in that verse?

Who is the blue Israel and who is the red Israel?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I understand prophesy is given for a reason. To prove God is the True one and Only God of all creation. Because who else can say things will happen hundreds even thousands of years in advance and they happen exactly as he said it would happen.

It is for our benefit, Not Gods. it is so we can see him and have furthy proof (or further no excuse) that he is God. And Christ was his son.

When we take literal interpretation out of prophesy we destroy Gods ability to do this very thing, and in fact, make him questionable. Because he like other gods, can not really intepret the future, He just says a few words. And we look at them, and interpret him as we see fit.

Even Nostradamus could predict the future using this method of interpretation and he was an athiest if I remember right

well OT prophecy is about both past future events and those yet to happen

Revelation when written, was all future tense

I would say there are next to none if very few prophets that could be categorized as John, remembering that Revelation is in the NT...Jesus is the greatest prophet who ever lived...apart from all His other offices

the NT definition of prophecy is more about FORTHtelling rather than FOREtelling...that is expounding on the written word

why is this? ALL believers now have the Holy Spirit inside of them and not upon them as per OT prophets...I don't know if the Holy Spirit was actually inside of the OT prophets but I think scripture is clear He definitely was upon those chosen by God but now, according to scripture all those who are believers ARE chosen by God...we know Jesus said He had to ascend in order for the Holy Spirit to descend and indwell believers

yes I agree that prophecy was given so that we might believe but even that illustrates that it is not always accepted...for example Isaiah 53...the Jews refused to see this as a description of their promised Messiah; but then Paul turns around and states they are blinded for a season for the Gentiles to be engrafted in...we need to understand how the Bible is written...God has an eternal eye on all things and we need to understand what is revealed of the nature of God to better understand what is written

but prophecy is also given because Jesus says He now calls us friends and so He lets us in on what is going on...like He gave the disciples private explanations of the meanings of the parables

No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. John 15:15

further, many confuse a word of knowledge as prophecy

sorry that was long

oh one more thing..people can also have an evil spirit that foretells the future or that 'knows' things...such as the servant girl that Paul cast such a spirit out of

you may know most of these things anyway...just explaining how I see it
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The context of romans 9 is not the same as the context of romans 11.. don’t let people try to fool you
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Book of Makebelief Chapter 1 verse 20:

"Israel is no more"

Conclusive proof. Case closed.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The context of romans 9 is not the same as the context of romans 11.. don’t let people try to fool you
Ah but they are the same context because they reference Israel... and there are two Israels. Your assumption is that All Israel means the flesh descendants and it doesn't. All Israel is saved Jews and saved Gentiles. The bible says that flesh Israel are the ENEMIES of the gospel and they are. It also says that God's elect are beloved by the Father.

You can't be AGAINST Christ and an ENEMY of the gospel and be BELOVED of the Father at the same time. Do you think the Jews that God had annihilated in AD 70 were his beloved? Of course you don't because God doesn't do that to his elect. And there's the proof that flesh Jews are not the elect.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
Scripture states that Israel will be driven into the wilderness by the man of sin where she will be protected by God for 1260 days until Jesus returns.
That is enough proof to me that the nation of Israel is legit.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Book of Makebelief Chapter 1 verse 20:

"Israel is no more"

Conclusive proof. Case closed.
Real conclusive proof.

Amo_8:2 And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

When did that happen? When the tabernacle of David was raised up.

Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
 
Oct 12, 2012
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Um No,

He was speaking of a future event, prophesied in the OT. Where the redeemer will come and save his people.

As for your last comment, DO WHAT??
Exactly! I couldn't say it any better!
All Israel will be saved...... the resurrection of the dead.

Are you so caught up in this sci-fi futuristic false prophecies that you think God's people are still in sheol, ie the grave.

So I'm saying that this future event happened at the end of Paul's life, 2nd coming and saved His people from sheol.

So to you, are the righteous of old covenant Israel still in the grave?
I say no they are not! TKS 😋
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Exactly! I couldn't say it any better!
All Israel will be saved...... the resurrection of the dead.

Are you so caught up in this sci-fi futuristic false prophecies that you think God's people are still in sheol, ie the grave.

So I'm saying that this future event happened at the end of Paul's life, 2nd coming and saved His people from sheol.

So to you, are the righteous of old covenant Israel still in the grave?
I say no they are not! TKS 😋
The bible says they rose with Christ and ascended with him at his ascension.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Exactly! I couldn't say it any better!
All Israel will be saved...... the resurrection of the dead.

Are you so caught up in this sci-fi futuristic false prophecies that you think God's people are still in sheol, ie the grave.

So I'm saying that this future event happened at the end of Paul's life, 2nd coming and saved His people from sheol.

So to you, are the righteous of old covenant Israel still in the grave?
I say no they are not! TKS 😋
I say I disagree with everything you said here.

I also say I never heard it before. Where did you come up with these thoughts if I may ask?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Scripture states that Israel will be driven into the wilderness by the man of sin where she will be protected by God for 1260 days until Jesus returns.
That is enough proof to me that the nation of Israel is legit.
It also says that Satan will then turn his attacks to her offspring. Which would be the gentile church..Or what is left of it
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Not sure why you would think this, the flesh prophits nothing.

Romans 11 concerns Gods promise to Isreal as a nation. Not the eternal salvation of peoples souls.. It also shows that just as prophesied and mentioned in chapters 9 and 10 that salvation was given to the gentiles just as prophesied. But even that can be taken away, (not that no more gentiles could ever be saved)

The issue is the context of these chapters..
Because God is not a man as us.

I would suggest. Israel as a nation with the word "Israel" meaning: "because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”............as a nation of people represented as a city in respect to its residents as citizens thereof. God called her Christian, the residents of the city prepared as the bride, the church. It would seem the word Israel defined could represent His bride the church because she has struggled with God and with humans and has overcome by the blood of the Lamb.

It would have to do with God who is a supernatural Spirit as in no beginning of days or end of Spirit life and not a man as us and in a similar way neither is there a fleshly mediator between God and man as a infallible umpire between the two. (daysman)

The son of man Jesus in respect to his flesh made it clear that we do not know Christ by the things seen the temporal. On one occasion they referred to His flesh calling Him good master . Refusing to take the place of a daysman Jesus said Only God is good, as a unseen God he stands in that Holy Place of his unveiled incorruptible glory. That glory would seemed to be veiled by the three avenues of the father of lies. the church is or should a representative glory.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jesus protecting the Holy unseen Place of faith would have no part of the father of lies. He understood the commandment of the Father to call no man on earth father for one is our father of spirits in heaven and in the same way call no man on earth infallible teacher because one is our infallible teacher the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God. Only God not seen is good . It would seem he designed the word "good" to represent Him not seen. It would seem he would not share that good glory with His creation as if he was a created being.


Matthew 19:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The disciples that were looking at the outward flesh wanted nothing to do with that which is written prophecy (faith) they were looking to eulogize the flesh of a person if they find the right one through the three avenues of the father of lies.1 John 2:16

It was offensive when men Like Jesus challenged their ideology looking to the things formed . When he informed them His flesh profits for nothing. They walked away in unbelief (no faith), not doubt we all doubt as a little faith, but none.

A hard saying is not hard to understand but one that offends causing hardship, coming from unbelief(no faith) . They stopped up their ears

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.John 6:60-68

In that way the flesh profits for nothing.It is the spirit that quickeneth As a promised demonstration it fulfills the need perfectly .But another demonstration. I would think not?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Because God is not a man as us.

I would suggest. Israel as a nation with the word "Israel" meaning: "because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”............as a nation of people represented as a city in respect to its residents as citizens thereof. God called her Christian, the residents of the city prepared as the bride, the church. It would seem the word Israel defined could represent His bride the church because she has struggled with God and with humans and has overcome by the blood of the Lamb.

It would have to do with God who is a supernatural Spirit as in no beginning of days or end of Spirit life and not a man as us and in a similar way neither is there a fleshly mediator between God and man as a infallible umpire between the two. (daysman)

The son of man Jesus in respect to his flesh made it clear that we do not know Christ by the things seen the temporal. On one occasion they referred to His flesh calling Him good master . Refusing to take the place of a daysman Jesus said Only God is good, as a unseen God he stands in that Holy Place of his unveiled incorruptible glory. That glory would seemed to be veiled by the three avenues of the father of lies. the church is or should a representative glory.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jesus protecting the Holy unseen Place of faith would have no part of the father of lies. He understood the commandment of the Father to call no man on earth father for one is our father of spirits in heaven and in the same way call no man on earth infallible teacher because one is our infallible teacher the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God. Only God not seen is good . It would seem he designed the word "good" to represent Him not seen. It would seem he would not share that good glory with His creation as if he was a created being.


Matthew 19:16-17 King James Version (KJV) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The disciples that were looking at the outward flesh wanted nothing to do with that which is written prophecy (faith) they were looking to eulogize the flesh of a person if they find the right one through the three avenues of the father of lies.1 John 2:16

It was offensive when men Like Jesus challenged their ideology looking to the things formed . When he informed them His flesh profits for nothing. They walked away in unbelief (no faith), not doubt we all doubt as a little faith, but none.

A hard saying is not hard to understand but one that offends causing hardship, coming from unbelief(no faith) . They stopped up their ears

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.John 6:60-68

In that way the flesh profits for nothing.It is the spirit that quickeneth As a promised demonstration it fulfills the need perfectly .But another demonstration. I would think not?
I think this is making things more complcated than they really are

God made abraham a bunch of promises. One of them, is that a nation who came from him would be given land, And they would be Gods people.. They would not enter that land till 400 years. But either way, it was theirs, and it was an eternal promise God made to Abraham, Confirmed to Isaac and confirmed once again with Jacob, TO whom the namesake is Given, His 12 sons and all his descendants being the beneficiaries of this promise.

On the way there, God gave them these instructions. Part of the instructions was a list of penalties they would be recieve with if they would depart from him and turn to other Gods and disobay him, The final form of these “disicplines” is complete destruction of their city, their sanctuary, and removal from their land. The last time this occured, and in complete fullfiment of what God promised would happen to them was in 70 AD. When they were remoeved from their land, and spread across the known world. Where they would reside until what the OT prophecies call the regathering.

The same passage which promised punishment for disobedience and total destruction. Also promised if they would repent, and admit their sins the sins of their fathers that God would remember his covenant, he would remember the promises, and he woudl remember the land. (In fact, this is what Daniel was praying in Daniel 9 when Gabriel came to him and gave the 70 week prophesy)

These promises and these gifts of God which he gave this nation are still in effect. In romans 11. Paul says these gifts and calling are irrevocable.

I believe God keeps his promises.. And when he said, at a time in the future, Israel WILL repent and be saved. This is what he is talking about because God promised even after his final form of discipline is enacted, this is what would happen if they repent.


 
Oct 12, 2012
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I say I disagree with everything you said here.

I also say I never heard it before. Where did you come up with these thoughts if I may ask?
Great now we have a true and good starting point. Israel of old is still in the grave according to you! Their still waiting for their Redeemer to come back and save them after Jesus spent 3 days with them, to date now almost 2000 yrs later! Wow! 2000 yrs after Jesus conquered death and the grave, Adam to Peter are still subjected to Satan in sheol?? Amazing!!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Great now we have a true and good starting point. Israel of old is still in the grave according to you! Their still waiting for their Redeemer to come back and save them after Jesus spent 3 days with them, to date now almost 2000 yrs later! Wow! 2000 yrs after Jesus conquered death and the grave, Adam to Peter are still subjected to Satan in sheol?? Amazing!!
I do not think you understand what I am sayign at all

Israel of old? Israel has always been isreal. And God promised he woudl always leave a remnant meaningn they will never die.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I think this is making things more complcated than they really are

God made abraham a bunch of promises. One of them, is that a nation who came from him would be given land, And they would be Gods people.. They would not enter that land till 400 years. But either way, it was theirs, and it was an eternal promise God made to Abraham, Confirmed to Isaac and confirmed once again with Jacob, TO whom the namesake is Given, His 12 sons and all his descendants being the beneficiaries of this promise.

On the way there, God gave them these instructions. Part of the instructions was a list of penalties they would be recieve with if they would depart from him and turn to other Gods and disobay him, The final form of these “disicplines” is complete destruction of their city, their sanctuary, and removal from their land. The last time this occured, and in complete fullfiment of what God promised would happen to them was in 70 AD. When they were remoeved from their land, and spread across the known world. Where they would reside until what the OT prophecies call the regathering.

The same passage which promised punishment for disobedience and total destruction. Also promised if they would repent, and admit their sins the sins of their fathers that God would remember his covenant, he would remember the promises, and he woudl remember the land. (In fact, this is what Daniel was praying in Daniel 9 when Gabriel came to him and gave the 70 week prophesy)

These promises and these gifts of God which he gave this nation are still in effect. In romans 11. Paul says these gifts and calling are irrevocable.

I believe God keeps his promises.. And when he said, at a time in the future, Israel WILL repent and be saved. This is what he is talking about because God promised even after his final form of discipline is enacted, this is what would happen if they repent.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The gifts and callings without repentance were to the ELECTION, not the enemies of the gospel. God hating reprobate sinners ARE NOT God's elect.

There are two groups of people in verse 28
1) the enemies of the gospel, unrepentant God hating Jews.
2) God's elect, the ones who have come to Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Israel was never elected to salvation. Nor wher they promised salvation

But they are elect, as I have already shown. Not to salvation, But as a nation of God. Who will be blessed whtn they obey, but punished when they disobey

Thats why ALTHOUGH they are HATED because in their present state. They are enemies of the gospel. They are also to be beloved, BECAUSE Gods gifts and calling are irrevocable.

This verse has nothing to do with the salvation of any peole. Be it jew or gentile
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Israel was never elected to salvation. Nor wher they promised salvation

But they are elect, as I have already shown. Not to salvation, But as a nation of God. Who will be blessed whtn they obey, but punished when they disobey

Thats why ALTHOUGH they are HATED because in their present state. They are enemies of the gospel. They are also to be beloved, BECAUSE Gods gifts and calling are irrevocable.

This verse has nothing to do with the salvation of any peole. Be it jew or gentile
Where in the Bible would I find God calling flesh Israel his elect?