Modern State of Israel: Is it biblical?

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TheDivineWatermark

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As far as Ephesians 4:8, I like this quote by Gaebelein:

"Each member in the body of Christ has a specific place for a specific work. See Romans 12:4-5 and 1Corinthians 12:4-5. And the bestowal of gifts for service in the body is in His hands. He ascended upon high and triumphed over all enemies. He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men. He triumphed over the devil, who has the power of death and stripped him of that power. And all who constitute His body share in His triumph. They are no longer under the power of Satan, but delivered from the power of darkness, they are His trophies. “He led captivity captive,” i.e., those who were in captivity, or “a troop, a multitude of captives.” The view held by some that the Old Testament saints are meant, whom He led forth from Hades is incorrect."

[end quote; underline mine]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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But isnt Jesus bringing heaven down to earth? Revelation 21:2
He did bring it when he came the first time.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I think some things are future but no those things. Simeon declared it and the writer of Acts said his words agree with the prophets. As it is written...
I had added a bracket to my post after you grabbed it... not sure it will help... but here it is again:

[quoting my post with its addition]

"I believe that Acts 3:20-21 [see v.18 also re: the "SUFFERING" part that WAS fulfilled already] and also the passage YOU are pointing out in Acts, refer to something yet future."


Now, besides Simeon, what passage are you meaning in your quoted post, above, specifically (again)? I want to be sure.


________

And... "the kingdom of God" certainly wasn't "WITHIN" [that is, WITHIN the persons of] the Pharisees He was speaking with, do you think?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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As far as Ephesians 4:8, I like this quote by Gaebelein:

"Each member in the body of Christ has a specific place for a specific work. See Romans 12:4-5 and 1Corinthians 12:4-5. And the bestowal of gifts for service in the body is in His hands. He ascended upon high and triumphed over all enemies. He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men. He triumphed over the devil, who has the power of death and stripped him of that power. And all who constitute His body share in His triumph. They are no longer under the power of Satan, but delivered from the power of darkness, they are His trophies. “He led captivity captive,” i.e., those who were in captivity, or “a troop, a multitude of captives.” The view held by some that the Old Testament saints are meant, whom He led forth from Hades is incorrect."

[end quote; underline mine]
He doesn't understand who the captivity was.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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I have to go for tonight, be back tomorrow.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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He doesn't understand who the captivity was.
"... and they shall be led away captive into all the nations..." [Lk21:24b] I believe happened in the events surrounding 70ad (parallel with Hosea 2:23a re: Israel, "I will sow her unto Me in the earth..." and also Hosea 1:10-11/Rom9:26 re: Israel [in contrast to Hosea 2:23b/Romans9:25 re: the Gentiles])… way more parallel passages, this is just a snippet...


I have to go for tonight, be back tomorrow.
Have a good night. :)
 

Endoscopy

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Hmm good question, maybe its relating to revelation with the 144,000 tribes of Israel entering the gates of heaven. Or its bringing them into the holy land again..because they had been taken captive into other lands (the diaspora, esp jewish ghettos/communities in practically every nation upon earth) and now hes bringing them back.
Note it says bring again..they all need to be gathered together again.

I can see how people might spiriutalise it to mean, God is sifting his people israel like a corn is sifted in a sieve (see verse 9) yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. Ie, separation of spirit and flesh, from eearth to heaven. But maybe it means God doesnt want the israelites to stay in the lands they were taken captive he means to bring them to their homeland.

That we can see that happening spiritually as well as in the flesh comes as no surprise. After all Jesus Christ did come in the flesh.
I think you didn't check what you posted. There are 12 tribes plus the Levites as priests mixed with the 12 tribes. The 144,000 is 12,000 times 12. That means 12,000 from each tribe not 144,000 tribes.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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[continuation of my previous post]

Allow me to post just one further paragraph+ of Gaebelein (his very next paragraph, on this topic):

[quoting]

"[in Eph4] Psalm 68:1-35 is quoted. But we discover an omission. Psalm 68:18 reads, “Thou has received gifts for men, yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.” The last sentence is omitted [when Eph quotes it], for the rebellious are the Jews; they are as the rebellious nation not in view in Ephesians, though the day will come when Israel will be converted and the promised gifts will be bestowed upon that nation. And He who ascended also descended first into the lower parts of the earth. It means the deepest depths of suffering, the shameful death of the cross and that He was buried. (This passage has nothing to do with 1Peter 3:18 - The meaning of this Scripture will be fully explained in our annotations of the First Epistle of Peter.) As the Ascended One He has given gifts for the ministry in the body. These gifts are “apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.” Other gifts are mentioned in First Corinthians such as the gift of healing, the gift of tongues, etc. These were not permanent gifts, and not absolutely necessary for the perfecting of the saints and the building up of the body of Christ.
"The gifts mentioned here in Ephesians abide to the end until the Church is complete and removed from the earth. The apostles are the apostles of the beginning."

[end quoting; bold and underline and bracketed inserts mine]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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[continued ^ ] So here is the part of Gaebelein's commentary he refers to (in the above post and quote of him) regarding 1Pet3 under discussion:

[quoting]

"The chief question is: Did our Lord go to Hades in a disembodied state? In fact, all depends on the question of what is the true meaning of the sentence, “quickened by the Spirit.” Now, according to the interpretations of the men who teach that the Lord visited Hades, the spirits in prison, during the interval between His death and the morning of the third day, He descended into these regions while His dead body was still in the grave. Therefore, these teachers claim that His human spirit was quickened, which necessitates that the spirit which the dying Christ commended into the Father’s hands had also died. This is not only incorrect doctrine, but it is an unsound and evil doctrine. Was the holy humanity of our Lord, body, soul and spirit dead? A thousands times No! Only His body died; that is the only part of Him which could die. The text makes this clear: “He was put to death in flesh,” that is, His body. There could be no quickening of His spirit, for His spirit was alive. Furthermore, the word quickening, as we learn from Ephesians 1:20 and Ephesians 2:5-6, by comparing the two passages, applies to His physical resurrection, it is the quickening of His body. To teach that the Lord Jesus was made alive before His resurrection is unscriptural. The “quickened by the Spirit” means the raising up of His body. His human spirit needed no quickening; it was His body and only His body. And the Spirit who did the quickening is not His own spirit, that is, His human spirit, but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 speaks of the Spirit as raising Jesus from among the dead.

"We have shown that it was an impossibility that Christ was in any way quickened while His body was not yet raised, hence a visit to Hades is positively excluded between His death and resurrection. There is only another alternative. If it is true that He descended into these regions, then it must have been after His resurrection. But that is equally untenable. The so-called “Apostle’s Creed” puts the descent between His death and resurrection and all the other theorists follow this view. We have shown what the passage does not mean. It cannot mean a visit of the disembodied Christ to Hades, for it speaks of the quickening by the Spirit, and that means His physical resurrection."

[end quoting]

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_peter/3.htm
 

Lanolin

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I think you didn't check what you posted. There are 12 tribes plus the Levites as priests mixed with the 12 tribes. The 144,000 is 12,000 times 12. That means 12,000 from each tribe not 144,000 tribes.
Ooh sorry I typo I meant in total.
 

Lanolin

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He did bring it when he came the first time.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Ok.. wow you must have a great deal of cognitive dissonance when you try to explain were Jesus is right now and that theres still death, dying and sorrow all around us. Also, when you go to Jerusalem and see that they still have day and night plus theres no city streets of pure gold.
 

Lanolin

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Jesus was remarking in Luke 17 that the kingdom wasnt one they were going to build themselves, all had to be destroyed first and only those in the ark, or in Lots case, fled, it would come when they werent aware.

Ok lets say Jesus took all the israelites to heaven already, what does that mean for us still here. And what does it mean for the people living in the land God had promised to Abrahams seed. That he didnt break that covenant it still stands and is renewed in Christ. Even when others tried to disobey the first one.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

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He did bring it when he came the first time.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I would find it more helpful if you would just add that you are a full blown preterist

then people would not exhaust themselves trying to figure out how you come to those conclusions

it's like looking both ways at a railroad xing, seeing a freight train barreling down and standing in the middle of the tracks anyway

and then finding out 'oopsie!' that train was not metaphorical after all o_O
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Many people mistakenly combine Israel with us gentiles. Quoting from somewheres, of some kind of "spiritual Israel!"
When it sez in the Bible, that the Gospel went from Israel (the Jews), to the gentiles, UNTIL the fullness of the gentiles, which IS MEANT to "provoke" Israel to jealousy? And, THEN, back to Israel.

I think, the better way to go about this, as it seems all so apparent, that, what us gentiles are currently doing, is NOT PROVOKING Israel to ANYTHING! And CERTAINLY not jealousy!

Time to put on our "thinking caps", and wonder what it is that WOULD provoke Israel?

A "direction" MIGHT be, but, the "cessessionist" tradition of man doctrine, that has PERMEATED "churchianity" for CENTURIES, has made a "void" so large? That, if one compares how the scribes and pharasees, were acting during Jesus' ministry on earth, and today's churches?

One, would "see", little difference!

Yeah! Start there! :unsure::unsure::unsure:

(gotta run.....everyone have a great Christmas! Later! :))
 
Oct 12, 2012
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Many people mistakenly combine Israel with us gentiles. Quoting from somewheres, of some kind of "spiritual Israel!"
When it sez in the Bible, that the Gospel went from Israel (the Jews), to the gentiles, UNTIL the fullness of the gentiles, which IS MEANT to "provoke" Israel to jealousy? And, THEN, back to Israel.

I think, the better way to go about this, as it seems all so apparent, that, what us gentiles are currently doing, is NOT PROVOKING Israel to ANYTHING! And CERTAINLY not jealousy!

Time to put on our "thinking caps", and wonder what it is that WOULD provoke Israel?

A "direction" MIGHT be, but, the "cessessionist" tradition of man doctrine, that has PERMEATED "churchianity" for CENTURIES, has made a "void" so large? That, if one compares how the scribes and pharasees, were acting during Jesus' ministry on earth, and today's churches?

One, would "see", little difference!

Yeah! Start there! :unsure::unsure::unsure:

(gotta run.....everyone have a great Christmas! Later! :))

Bro I disagree with you, God is not trying to provoke the Jews with anything; they don't give a rats ass about Christ Jesus! There's nothing to provoke them with?? There's no more Jew or gentile since 70ad! What is wrong with you?? Merry Christmas to you also!!!🤗
 
Oct 12, 2012
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Yes, but no gentile has ever been called part of the remnant. Its allabout Israel and Gods promise to them
Hey I missed your leaving last night, wanted to say I enjoyed the back and forth; have a joyful Christmas and New year's season!!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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A few things come to mind when considering that ^ :

[first off, what I'd put in the first part of my post #148 (I think), quoting that post]

"So I would add a few things to consider:
--Jesus, in both Luke 22:30,16,18 and Matthew 19:28 [<--this one, parallel with Matthew 25:31-34 FOR TIMING], said, "[re: the 12] ye shall sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." (why mention "the twelve tribes of Israel" specifically, here? and especially the mention of "when"... why say that?
)"

[end of that quote]

Secondly, the SEQUENCE disclosed in [/between that of] Matthew 22:7 (re: the events surrounding the 70ad things) and Matthew 22:8 ("THEN SAITH HE to His servants"--this "THEN SAITH" necessarily occurred AFTER the verse 7's "sent forth his armies, and burned up their city" events); so that Matthew 22:8 correlates with Revelation 1:1 (written in 95ad, so qualifies!) which states, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM, TO SHEW UNTO His servants [7:3, the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel] things which must come to pass [like 4:1, the FUTURE aspects of the book] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" not things unfolding over some 2000 years, but within a relatively short period of time once they START [comp. this "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" with that found in Lk18:8 (in view of Lk17 end) and Rom16:20] (and they START with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" i.e. SEAL #1, parallel to Matthew 24:4/Mark 13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" (the "whose coming" of 2Th2:9a [Dan9:27a[26b])--again, Lk21:12 is saying that "BEFORE all these [beginning of birth PANGS]" that the events surrounding 70ad must take place first, before that.

Thirdly, the 144,000 [of Israel, singular nation] are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations [plural]" (which effects will be the results of Matt24:14[26:13] being preached in all the world DURING that future specific limited time period that leads UP TO His Second Coming to the earth (that is, DURING the 7-yr trib).

Fourthly, we ("the Church which is His body") were given TWO things to observe (if you will), whereas Israel was given 7 feasts and the sabbath, new moon, etc... to observe ['keep']… So presently, we [the Church which is His body] "[ye] do shew/proclaim the Lord's DEATH TILL He come" (that is, "come" for us in our Rapture, per the context of the "ye"), at which point we will [corporately] be shewing forth/proclaiming something ELSE! ;) (and like I've stated, I believe one of the purposes of our Rapture is to be a primary impetus that brings Israel to belief in Jesus Christ, their Messiah, as He is)--And recall that I believe that Revelation 19:7 (regarding "the Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" and "the MARRIAGE" itself [aorist by Rev19 setting]) IS DISTINCT FROM Revelation 19:9 (regarding "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [the earthly MK commencing upon His "RETURN" there] and its "INVITED GUESTS [PLURAL]" "having been invited" [DURING those trib years, while "the Church which is His body" is UP THERE "WITH [G4862] HIM"])
 

Lanolin

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Bro I disagree with you, God is not trying to provoke the Jews with anything; they don't give a rats ass about Christ Jesus! There's nothing to provoke them with?? There's no more Jew or gentile since 70ad! What is wrong with you?? Merry Christmas to you also!!!🤗
Actually there are still jews living today and from 70ad because history and current events show this to be so, you cannot deny it. The holocaust...anyone? And many are still waiting for their Messiah. That is why we need to tell or show them Jesus, they may not care, but they still need to know who He is. Why Because God has not forsaken them and keeps His covenant, even if they break it.