Mortal and Venial sins

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#21
So what are the sins that if someone committed you would question whether they were saved in the first place?
Any sin for which they felt absolutely no conviction.

We arrogant humans like to think that we have the authority to define sin; only God does. We also think we have the authority to define the parameters and requirements of repentance, forgiveness, and restoration. Again, only God does.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
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#22
Sin is sin missing the mark is missing the mark.....the worst sin of all besides the sin against the Holy Spirit is the one you say you don't have.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#23
I am not talking about unforgivable sin, I want to know what sins a saved person might commit that would cause you to doubt that they were ever saved in the first place.

We can't be certain:

When someone says they're a Christian, and they don't seem to act like it, no one can ever be 100% certain about the condition of their soul.

In the Bible, we only seem to find certainty about the condition of our OWN soul.
However, even though we cannot be certain of others, we can still be wise, and look for patterns of behavior that would seem to indicate an underlying condition.


Patterns to Determine an Underlying Condition:

This is the same way that we'd look for patterns to determine physical illness, or mental disturbances. If I cough once or twice, it might mean nothing. But If I cough all day and night, that's a pattern of some underlying condition. If someone tells a lie once or twice, we might not think too much of it. But if everything a person says is always a lie, we know that's a pattern of an underlying condition.


There are also patterns we can apply to spiritual things, to make an educated guess about someone's spiritual condition.

1. The Bible says Christians are God's children, and like children, he chastens us when we go astray.
So if we see someone claiming to be a Christian, and they've been committing a great deal of sin, for long time, and there's no chastening, and everything in their life is fantastic... that's a sign they may not really be a Christian.

2. The Bible says God promises to work in us and change us, and conform us to his image.
So if we see someone claiming to be a Christian, and they haven't made any changes in their life at all since they converted, and they live just the same as they ever did, and they have no interest in spiritual things... that's a sign they may not really be a Christian.

3. The Bible says God puts the holy spirit in us to guide us, and he convicts us of sin.
So if we see someone claiming to be a Christian, and they've been committing a great deal of sin, for a long time, and they don't seem to show any signs of guilt or remorse for anything they've done... that's a sign they may not really be a Christian.




Conclusion:

These are some of the basic things we might look for, to make an educated guess.

So to make that educated guess, we would not look for a particular sin, but we would look for a long ongoing pattern, a pattern that would be contrary to what SHOULD be going on in a Christian's life. When the pattern is long and ongoing, it is probably a good indication of an underlying condition.

So we can never be certain about the condition of someone claiming to be a Christian, but looking for ongoing patterns can help us to make a good educated guess.
 
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Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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#24
We Catholics believe there are two kinds of sin. The more serious is mortal or deadly. Deadly that is for the soul. These are serious infractions of the Ten Commandments and cause a loss of sanctifying grace to the soul without which you cannot enter heaven. A person who dies with unforgiven mortal sin on their soul goes to hell.

Venial sins are harmful and offend God but they do not result in the loss of sanctifying grace. An example would be the theft of something like a pencil. If you steal $10,000 then it is mortal.

I have been told numerous times on this website that there is no such distinction. Sin is sin. I saw something in a post that got me thinking. It said a person who had sinned must not have been really saved in the first place. So there are thousands of saved individuals on this site and scripture says they are sinners but they do not doubt their salvation. But some sins do cause others to doubt the salvation of people. So what are the sins that if someone committed you would question whether they were saved in the first place?
The idea that the value of what is stolen determines the severity of sin is a fallacy . The notion that what man conceders to be valuable has any affect on what God has said in the scriptures is error. (I am being kind here ) . We are not to steal period.
I have a question what if the stolen pencil belongs to a street artist that makes his living on his drawing. The pencil was his last one . He now has no way to make a living . No way to feed his family. Is it still a venial sin ?
Sin is sin
Blessings
Bill
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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#25
The miter is a mortal sin of fashion.

Not the priestly collars though. Those are pretty sharp.

Unless the robes are too long. That would be a venial sin of fashion.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#26
I have been told numerous times on this website that there is no such distinction. Sin is sin.
That's right. According to Scripture sin is sin, and all sins are a violation of the Ten Commandments (or if you prefer the two greatest commandments). So now it is time for you to pack up your Catechism and get serious about Bible study.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#27
We Catholics believe there are two kinds of sin. The more serious is mortal or deadly. Deadly that is for the soul. These are serious infractions of the Ten Commandments and cause a loss of sanctifying grace to the soul without which you cannot enter heaven. A person who dies with unforgiven mortal sin on their soul goes to hell.

Venial sins are harmful and offend God but they do not result in the loss of sanctifying grace. An example would be the theft of something like a pencil. If you steal $10,000 then it is mortal.

I have been told numerous times on this website that there is no such distinction. Sin is sin. I saw something in a post that got me thinking. It said a person who had sinned must not have been really saved in the first place. So there are thousands of saved individuals on this site and scripture says they are sinners but they do not doubt their salvation. But some sins do cause others to doubt the salvation of people. So what are the sins that if someone committed you would question whether they were saved in the first place?

The one wage of sin is eternal separation from God .God does not divide into categories. To violate the least is to be found guilty of the eternal wage .

[h=1]James 2:10 King James Version (KJV)For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[/h]Jesus paid it full, all to Him we owe . He does not give a down payment of a unknown amount for sin .That's a Catholic teaching.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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#28
The idea that the value of what is stolen determines the severity of sin is a fallacy . The notion that what man conceders to be valuable has any affect on what God has said in the scriptures is error. (I am being kind here ) . We are not to steal period.
I have a question what if the stolen pencil belongs to a street artist that makes his living on his drawing. The pencil was his last one . He now has no way to make a living . No way to feed his family. Is it still a venial sin ?
Sin is sin
Blessings
Bill

Amen, taking a bite of the unauthorized fruit brought eternal damnation . No such thing as venial sin.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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#29
When your priest was molesting those boys do you question if he was saved?

i am not god, i have no right to judge anyone, i am not sinless. Who do you think gves you the right to judge? Who made you God?
I think he has committed a very heinous mortal sin.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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#30
Let me rephrase my question. Is it wrong for a Christian to question the salvation status of a person who commits a sin that greatly offends your sensibilities?
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
210
9
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#31
The idea that the value of what is stolen determines the severity of sin is a fallacy . The notion that what man conceders to be valuable has any affect on what God has said in the scriptures is error. (I am being kind here ) . We are not to steal period.
I have a question what if the stolen pencil belongs to a street artist that makes his living on his drawing. The pencil was his last one . He now has no way to make a living . No way to feed his family. Is it still a venial sin ?
Sin is sin
Blessings
Bill
In another post I said stealing a penny from a beggar might be considered a mortal sin and so also with you example of the artist.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#32
Let me rephrase my question. Is it wrong for a Christian to question the salvation status of a person who commits a sin that greatly offends your sensibilities?
We are not to judge one's salvation, but we are to judge in the sense to have nothing to do with them. They are to be cast out of the assembly of believers and handed over to Satan. 1 Cor. 5
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#33
The miter is a mortal sin of fashion.

Not the priestly collars though. Those are pretty sharp.

Unless the robes are too long. That would be a venial sin of fashion.

I think we should tie these thoughts to my thoughts above.


Anyone could accidentally, once or twice, slip into a bejeweled golden miter, with matching scepter, and plop down onto a huge golden throne.
Obviously this could happen to any ordinary person in the course of any ordinary day.
So there's certainly no reason to see this as odd.

But if we see this occurring over and over, in and ongoing pattern...
it's probably a sign of some underlying condition.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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#34
We are not to judge one's salvation, but we are to judge in the sense to have nothing to do with them. They are to be cast out of the assembly of believers and handed over to Satan. 1 Cor. 5
So there are sins that could be committed and you would maintain fellowship with them and other sins that you would hand the person over to Satan.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#35
Mortal and venial? What next, recite the rosary? This is not a Roman forum
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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#36
John146 brings up a good point. St Paul makes distinctions among sins when in 1 Cor 5 he hands a man over to Satan.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#37
So there are sins that could be committed and you would maintain fellowship with them and other sins that you would hand the person over to Satan.
I believe it's a matter of repentance. If the believer is truly sorry and works to separate themselves from their sin, then fellowship is not broken. If the believer is not repentant and continues to pursue sin, fellowship must be broken.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#38
There is but One sin that may be unpardonable.........and that is may be. The Romans will not teach this since they have their fright tactics in place for hundreds of years, but, it is in the Word, in the New Testament.

It is apparent those discussing this have not or will not read it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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980
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#39
Let me rephrase my question. Is it wrong for a Christian to question the salvation status of a person who commits a sin that greatly offends your sensibilities?
Since sensibilities are completely subjective, the answer is "No".

The earthly consequences of sins vary; that is why we are more offended by some sins than others.

Get away from the concept of "sins" (plural and varied) and focus on the concept of sin (singular and absolute) and you'll see the error in the Catholic view.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
5,703
980
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#40
I believe it's a matter of repentance. If the believer is truly sorry and works to separate themselves from their sin, then fellowship is not broken. If the believer is not repentant and continues to pursue sin, fellowship must be broken.
Repentance has nothing to do with being sorry. It has everything to do with recognizing the wrongness of one's actions, acknowledging before God the commission of them, and turning away from repeating them. "Sorry" is shame, regret at being caught, and emotional manipulation in the face of impending consequences.