Mortal and Venial sins

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#41
Repentance has nothing to do with being sorry. It has everything to do with recognizing the wrongness of one's actions, acknowledging before God the commission of them, and turning away from repeating them. "Sorry" is shame, regret at being caught, and emotional manipulation in the face of impending consequences.
Repentance is not a physical action, but the acknowledgment that you are on the wrong path and you want to make it right.
 

Miri

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2012
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UK age 50
#42
We Catholics believe there are two kinds of sin. The more serious is mortal or deadly. Deadly that is for the soul. These are serious infractions of the Ten Commandments and cause a loss of sanctifying grace to the soul without which you cannot enter heaven. A person who dies with unforgiven mortal sin on their soul goes to hell.

Venial sins are harmful and offend God but they do not result in the loss of sanctifying grace. An example would be the theft of something like a pencil. If you steal $10,000 then it is mortal.

I have been told numerous times on this website that there is no such distinction. Sin is sin. I saw something in a post that got me thinking. It said a person who had sinned must not have been really saved in the first place. So there are thousands of saved individuals on this site and scripture says they are sinners but they do not doubt their salvation. But some sins do cause others to doubt the salvation of people. So what are the sins that if someone committed you would question whether they were saved in the first place?

Point 1

How much is too much, if you steal £10,000 from a billionaire it would be like
stealing a pencil to them, I doubt they would even miss it.

If you steal a pencil from someone who has nothing else. You are stealing their
one and only possession.

So you see that it’s not possible to use that argument. Muslims have a similar
theology. They think they have an angel on each should one records all the bad
that you do and one records all the good that you do. They base their place in
heaven by hoping their goods deeds are more than the bad.

Thats the problem with man made ideas, the only way to define the truth is go straight
to God’s word, which says all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
That means you are a sinner, so what will you do about it?

Point 2.

Well actually you cant do anything, you can’t save yourself and as the penalty of sin
is death. You can’t die for your own sin and neither can anyone else because they too
have a sin nature.

The only solution was for God the son who is sinless to pay that penalty which is death.
The grave could not hold Him and He rose from the dead.
The only thing you can do with such a loving sacrifice is accept what Jesus did for you,
accept He has already paid for all your sin, past present and future. Repent and ask
Jesus for a brand new you.

From personal testimony and those of others, I have found
that true born again Christians can usually point to a time in their lives when they
had a deep realisation of what Jesus had done for them, an encounter of some
description with God. A true desire to follow Him. It’s not about us it’s about Him.

I hope you will have such a time in your life and it’s good to keep asking questions.

Oh and one thing many find hard to put into context and tie themselves in knots
with. For a born again Christian there is a difference in justification and sanctification.

Justification, just as if I had never sinned, Jesus washes all the filth and sin away by His
sacrifice.

Sanctification, the process of becoming more like Jesus day be day. We still have a fleshy
nature which needs to learn and deal with old habits and overcome, we are not instantly
perfect overnight. In fact our body is not renewed at all in continues to decay.
Our minds need renewing.

That doesn’t mean we can do as we please, indeed a true Christian will develop a tender
conscious and it will hurt and worry them when they get it wrong. We are to keep short
accounts with God in that respect. Say sorry I blew it, teach me Jesus to walk with you
day by day. Do we lose our salvation? No not if we are truly born again because we are
new creations no longer under condemnation.



2 Corinthians 5:16-21 NKJV
[16] Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh.
Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we
know Him thus no longer. [17] Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a
new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have
become new. [18] Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to
Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
[19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not
imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of
reconciliation. [20] Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though
God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled
to God. [21] For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him.


2 Corinthians 5:16-21 NLT
[16] So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view.
At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view.
How differently we know him now! [17] This means that anyone who belongs
to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!
[18] And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through
Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him.
[19] For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting
people's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
[20] So we are Christ's ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us.
We speak for Christ when we plead, "Come back to God!" [21] For God made
Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be
made right with God through Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#43
I think he has committed a very heinous mortal sin.
and if you tell a white lie to save yourself from hardship, your just as guilty as he is. (According to james)

Why would you excuse your sin, and condemn his?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#44
Repentance is not a physical action, but the acknowledgment that you are on the wrong path and you want to make it right.
how many times can one repent but once? Once we are on riht path, there is nothing left to repent about.

Now confess, yes, thats what we do when we are on right path, we confess our wrongs.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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#45
and if you tell a white lie to save yourself from hardship, your just as guilty as he is. (According to james)

Why would you excuse your sin, and condemn his?
For the same reason Paul condemned the man in 1 Cor 5. I am not mitigating a little white lie. All sin is harmful and offends God its just that some sin is more heinous than others. I go back to the Old Testament. Why did God prescribe light punishments for some sins and the death penalty for others.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
6,198
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#46
In another post I said stealing a penny from a beggar might be considered a mortal sin and so also with you example of the artist.
I would offer God does not divide sin into different categories. It simply does not make biblical sense .

Anything that does not come by the exclusive faith that comes from hearing what the Spirit of God says to the churches is sin, punishable by death, The one wage of sin is eternal damnation when speaking in eternal manners we do not look to the temporal .

Eternal life to those who do believe God. Eternal separation, never rising to new born again spirt life for those with "no faith" from or of God only the imaginations of their own deceitful hearts evil continually.

Makes a person wonder in respect to Luke 18 …will Christ find the faith that comes from hearing God working in the hearts of men or will it be like in the days of Noah sudden destruction like a thief in the night?

Luke 18:8I say to you, that He will execute the justice to them quickly; but the Son of Man having come, shall he find the faith upon the earth?'

And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day
;Geneisis 6
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
210
9
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#48
I would offer God does not divide sin into different categories. It simply does not make biblical sense .

Anything that does not come by the exclusive faith that comes from hearing what the Spirit of God says to the churches is sin, punishable by death, The one wage of sin is eternal damnation when speaking in eternal manners we do not look to the temporal .

Eternal life to those who do believe God. Eternal separation, never rising to new born again spirt life for those with "no faith" from or of God only the imaginations of their own deceitful hearts evil continually.

Makes a person wonder in respect to Luke 18 …will Christ find the faith that comes from hearing God working in the hearts of men or will it be like in the days of Noah sudden destruction like a thief in the night?

Luke 18:8I say to you, that He will execute the justice to them quickly; but the Son of Man having come, shall he find the faith upon the earth?'

And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day
;Geneisis 6

A couple of points. All the Corinthians were sinners but Paul did not hand all of them over to Satan 1 Cor 5. Only one mans sin was bad enough for this.

Second, in the Old Testament why does God prescribe light punishment for some sins and the death penalty for others?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
6,198
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#49
A couple of points. All the Corinthians were sinners but Paul did not hand all of them over to Satan 1 Cor 5. Only one mans sin was bad enough for this.

Second, in the Old Testament why does God prescribe light punishment for some sins and the death penalty for others?
It was the only man he was dealing with when he said those words that the Holy Spirit put on Paul's lips.Who knows how many the Spirit of Christ working in Paul handed over at the end of the day or other apostles

The wage of violating the word of God is eternal separation. Break one.... guilty of all. He does not divide up the eternal wage of denying His word .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#50
For the same reason Paul condemned the man in 1 Cor 5. I am not mitigating a little white lie. All sin is harmful and offends God its just that some sin is more heinous than others. I go back to the Old Testament. Why did God prescribe light punishments for some sins and the death penalty for others.

Your still ignoring james, and the law itself stated if one did not obey every word they were cursed thats why accordingto the law all have sinnd and fall short of Gods standard.

Yes, some sin is more harmeful to society and demanded stiffer punishmnent, but even jesus, when the jews wanted to stone a harlot according to the law, said let he who has no sin cast th first stone. And everyone walked away because all were judged!

Your still ignoring james, according the him if you say a white lieyour just as worthy of hell by that one sin as the man who commits adultry.

believe it or not. Put hitler and mother theresa side by side in front of God, and they both would be justly condemned and worthy of hell, unless they were saved by the blood of christ.

 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#51
I have been told numerous times on this website that there is no such distinction. Sin is sin.
This is what I learned three decades ago from a pastor, but I don't feel that sins are all equal. Having sexual intercourse with someone is not the same as checking out someone other than your spouse.

Physical adultery is so serious that, according to the Bible, it is grounds for divorce (to separate what God has united). What about mental adultery? Have you ever heard of any Christian who filed for divorce just because their spouse checked out some else?




 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,325
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#52
This is what I learned three decades ago from a pastor, but I don't feel that sins are all equal. Having sexual intercourse with someone is not the same as checking out someone other than your spouse.

Physical adultery is so serious that, according to the Bible, it is grounds for divorce (to separate what God has united). What about mental adultery? Have you ever heard of any Christian who filed for divorce just because their spouse checked out some else?




Whilst I get to a certain extent I'm not sure I agree concerning your example means that both sins are not necessarily equal.

Both can lead to the same consequences. Divorce.

Checking out someone other than your spouse is not wise or beneficial.

How devesated would you be if you knew your spouse was checking out someone else, fantasies about doing the deed or wanting to see them naked?

What about a wife whose husband does not commit the physical act yet watches porn?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#53
Whilst I get to a certain extent I'm not sure I agree concerning your example means that both sins are not necessarily equal.

Both can lead to the same consequences. Divorce.

Checking out someone other than your spouse is not wise or beneficial.

How devesated would you be if you knew your spouse was checking out someone else, fantasies about doing the deed or wanting to see them naked?

What about a wife whose husband does not commit the physical act yet watches porn?
amen, and the main point should be that both sins apart from grace would cause us to be worthy of hell. (Condemn us)
 

Enoch987

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2017
312
10
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#54
A couple of points. All the Corinthians were sinners but Paul did not hand all of them over to Satan 1 Cor 5. Only one mans sin was bad enough for this.

Second, in the Old Testament why does God prescribe light punishment for some sins and the death penalty for others?
Paul asked that the 1 Cor. sinner be restored in 2 Cor. He had been shunned and buffeted enough according to Paul.
Some sins do more damage than others so in criminal court, there are different punishments.
Any sin separates us from God (we aren't saved) unless we believe Jesus died for our sins so God sees His Son's righteousness when He looks at us.
As near as I can tell, what Catholics call mortal sins are listed by Paul in Galations 5:19 followed by the fruits of the Spirit.
Protestants would doubt a person's confession of Christ if they continued in these sins.
Also see Revelation 22:15 for sins of a person that is not saved by believing in Jesus.
Protestants believe a person that commits these sins can be saved if they repent and turn away from these sins and look to Jesus for their salvation.
A believer that continues in these sins?
That's between them and God. We can't know why they sins, what hang ups they have or abuse they have endured or chemical imbalances or generational demons. We don't know about their salvation. Generally, we would say that this person is not saved but we aren't supposed to judge their salvation.
If their actions are criminal under human law they deserve punishment.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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#55
amen, and the main point should be that both sins apart from grace would cause us to be worthy of hell. (Condemn us)
It's not rocket science is it?

Nothing wrong with lusting after someone who is not your spouse if you don't physically do it??????

Really?

It's a cop out.

It's like saying "Im glad I'm not a sinner like that physical adulterer" yet they check out someone else and lust in their hearts.

Jesus cuts to quick and the point.

I would say though that I think concerning this issue it is a bit different.

I can't recall Jesus drawing the same comparison with stealing.

Can you?
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,044
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#56
It's not rocket science is it?

Nothing wrong with lusting after someone who is not your spouse if you don't physically do it??????

Really?

It's a cop out.

It's like saying "Im glad I'm not a sinner like that physical adulterer" yet they check out someone else and lust in their hearts.

Jesus cuts to quick and the point.

I would say though that I think concerning this issue it is a bit different.

I can't recall Jesus drawing the same comparison with stealing.

Can you?

Amen, the pharisees got in trouble for the very thing, jesus rebuked them in the sermon on the mount. Its amazing hw people excuse their sin!
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#57
Whilst I get to a certain extent I'm not sure I agree concerning your example means that both sins are not necessarily equal.

Both can lead to the same consequences. Divorce.

Checking out someone other than your spouse is not wise or beneficial.

How devesated would you be if you knew your spouse was checking out someone else, fantasies about doing the deed or wanting to see them naked?

What about a wife whose husband does not commit the physical act yet watches porn?
How would you feel if your wife cheated on you just once?

How would you feel if your wife checked out another guy just once, but never ever cheated on you physically?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#58
How would you feel if your wife cheated on you just once?

How would you feel if your wife checked out another guy just once, but never ever cheated on you physically?

The same.

How does God feel in either case?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#59
For the same reason Paul condemned the man in 1 Cor 5. I am not mitigating a little white lie. All sin is harmful and offends God its just that some sin is more heinous than others. I go back to the Old Testament. Why did God prescribe light punishments for some sins and the death penalty for others.
The wages of sin is death.

The consequences of sins vary and the punishments for sins also vary according to the severity of the consequences.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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#60
The same.

How does God feel in either case?
You're very different from me.

I think God sees a big difference between the two cases. Physical adultery doesn't happen in a split second and checking out a sexually attractive person does.