Music in Church?

[Sophia]

This does not address the two questions I asked about trying to be justified by the OT. Those two questions again:

After all, if one today can be justified by the OT for using IM why couldn't those Galatians be justified by the OT in circumcising?


And if one can use David as an example for something he practices, then why can't I use David as example for other practices as polygamy and animal sacrifices?

In the great commission, Jesus commanded His disciples to "go" into all the world. Since Jesus did not specify a particular mode of transportation/communication then how were they to 'go'? Could they walk since Jesus did not specifically authorize walking? When Jesus commanded "go" He left the mode up to the expediency of the disciples as to how they go, whether they walk, horse-back or by ship. And it is still a matter of expediency today for disciples as to how they "go: whether by car, airplane, internet.

Phil 3:16 "Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."

If people do not walk by the same rule then next thing you know there will be thousands of religious groups all believing things totally contradictory to each other..........

We cannot use those things as excuses, because the NT talks about them negatively or as being no longer needed. There is a principle given in the NT that molds our behaviour away from those.
There is no NT principle that would change the use of instruments as being good and holy and glorifying to God.

As for the "contradictory" argument: we are told not to judge others for eating and for abstaining. I do not judge you for abstaining from instrumental music, but defend my use of them against your false judgement. It is good for the One Body to have many parts. We can not all be hands or all be feet, or all be spleens, as we each have seperate convictions unto seperate duties unto seperate missions, all under one Faith, One Lord, One calling.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Don't know if this has bee posted already but this is an
interesting read. But one can decide for themselves.
Instrumental Music in Worship: Sing or Play Instruments?

 

[1still_waters]

There is no difference, it is clear in Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, the melody is played "in the heart".

18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,19addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

Those against musical instruments in church to sing songs to God use the verses above to support that view.
Basically no mention of instruments is mentioned, therefore we should not use instruments.

But I noticed something.
if one is going to have such a wooden interpretation, shouldn't one refrain from using their vocal cords in church to sing to God?

It doesn't say sing melodies with your vocal cords to God.
It says make melodies with your hearts to God.

So if one is going to have such a wooden interpretation, shouldn't they view worship in church to God as totally silent, seeing scripture says it should be done in your hearts, and no mention of vocal cords is mentioned?

singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,

singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

If you're going to be wooden in this, the only vocal aspect should be when you speak to others.

teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom,

addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs

 

[SeaBass]

We cannot use those things as excuses, because the NT talks about them negatively or as being no longer needed. There is a principle given in the NT that molds our behaviour away from those.
There is no NT principle that would change the use of instruments as being good and holy and glorifying to God.

If one can be justified by the OT for using IM then it would be hypocritcal for Paul in condemning those Galatians for trying to be justified by following that same OT also.

The over-riding issue is if one can set aside what God said about singing then one can set aside anything and everything God said and follwo his own opinions no bible needed at all. Instead of singing, one can do as he pelases. Instaed of using unleaven bread and fruit of the vine for the Lord's Supper one can use what he pleases. Instead of teaching belief repentance confession and baptism is needed for salvation, one can teach salvation comes by whatever he pleases. When there is not rule or standard to go by, then you are left with nothing but non-credible, non truthful, non-authoritative, worthless, contradicting opinions of man.

As for the "contradictory" argument: we are told not to judge others for eating and for abstaining. I do not judge you for abstaining from instrumental music, but defend my use of them against your false judgement. It is good for the One Body to have many parts. We can not all be hands or all be feet, or all be spleens, as we each have seperate convictions unto seperate duties unto seperate missions, all under one Faith, One Lord, One calling.

This has to do with matters of opinion not a matter of laws/commands of God, matters of doctrine.

Rom 14:1 "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

THe NASB renders Rom 14:1 "Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions."

Paul is talking about the weak brother that will not eat meat that's been offered to idols. Nothing wrong at all with eating meats offered to idols but do not argue/dispute with the weak brother over this matter of opinion. Paul here is not talking about matters of doctrine but matters of opinion.


What about receiving those with errors in doctrine?


2 Jn 1:9 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."

2 Jn 1:10 "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"

Rom 14:2 "For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs."
The one strong in faith knows there is nothing wrong with eating those meats. It becomes more obvious this is dealing with matters of OPINION NOT DOCTRINE.

Rom 14:3 "Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."

The weak brother that will not eat the meat is not to judge those that do eat, and those that do eat are not to judge those that do not eat. So "not judging" has to do with matters of opinion, yet matters of doctrine and sin judgment MUST be made, Rom 16;17.

 

[Lynx]

My question would be , why are so many contemporary churches restricted to guitars and drums only?

This is due to a concatenation of circumstances usually - mostly when the church started out the only musical talent was in drums and guitars, and now that they are accustomed to it they are resistant to change. This is human nature.

Also it's a lot easier to play drums and guitar. Ever tried learning piano? You'll never be really through with learning, there's always something new to learn.

 

[1still_waters]

Also, just a question, those who use the verses below to establish what we shouldn't do in church (use instruments), how many of you actually go up to someone in church and admonish them with a psalm, hymn or spiritual song?


8 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,19addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.



16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Did the early church use mechanical instruments?

 

[SeaBass]

Also, just a question, those who use the verses below to establish what we shouldn't do in church (use instruments), how many of you actually go up to someone in church and admonish them with a psalm, hymn or spiritual song?


8 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,19addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.



16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

Songs are used to teach and admonish. For example, when the minister offers an invitation we sometimes sing a song called "Don't Wait Too Late". The lyrics of the song is meant to admonish those who need to come forward to Christ for whatever reason and not "wait too late" for one can leave the services, die in accident, heart attack etc., leaving this world not having made things right with God.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I've heard many Christians say that musical instruments and certain musical things can not be used in Church. I'm curious, why does that belief even exist? I'm not even being mean in asking why some of you believe this way. I'm just asking to get a better idea of why. Please, do not fight.

Bible scripture to use defending this?

The absence of New Testament prohibitions of using musical instruments equals the "silence" of N.T. scriptures that would endorse that.

Aside from the Mosaic law of enmity (last 4 books of the Pentateuch), the Old Testament contains other wonderful covenants from God, from which comes a wealth of revelation of God and of Christ, introduced by the prophets. The wisdom of Proverbs is fit for use by all humanity. Psalms is the universal song book suitable for Jews and Christians alike, a great model for Church worship. The whole of Psalms promotes instrumental music, song, and spoken prose.

The whole idea of not doing something in a Church worship service because it isn't listed in the Bible misses the point of the liberty we have in Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:31-33 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Now if a church congregation is not offended by their music, then who is judge of them? Not God, there being no prohibition of that. After all, God has accepted music of many kinds over the several millennia. Review the inauguration of Solomon's Temple! None of that was commanded to be done by Moses. As seen in the verse, once again, God doesn't prohibit any kind of food, drink, or whatever else as long as that something else is to His glory.

Did Moses authorize or prohibit King David to do the following? 2 Chronicles 5:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets

Whatever you do, do to the glory of God. David and Solomon knew how, so did many others.

 

[AbbeyJoy]

My church has musical instruments and I don't know why some churches don't allow it :/

 

[Elizabeth619]

Here's another article on silence in the scriptures. the NT being silent goes far beyond pianos and drums. There are many things the NT is silent on but people fail to realize. If yall understood why some see things that are silent are not practiced among Christians then maybe there can be better understanding.
https://www.christiancourier.com/ar...-the-scriptures-permissive-or-prohibitive-the

 

[SoulWeaver]

If opponents of instruments in worship say OT is abolished, even in principles, why do they jump into their own mouth and then go into and use OT to prove their points? If is not applicable, then it is not applicable... cant have a cake and eat it.
Btw I can understand (and honor) someone's conviction against instruments, but some make a doctrinal issue out of it when it is not.
Plus the evil type of laughter I have encountered by some who oppose instruments on this thread, particularly towards me.

 

[Elizabeth619]

If opponents of instruments in worship say OT is abolished, even in principles, why do they jump into their own mouth and then go into and use OT to prove their points? If is not applicable, then it is not applicable... cant have a cake and eat it.
Btw I can understand (and honor) someone's conviction against instruments, but some make a doctrinal issue out of it when it is not.
Plus the evil type of laughter I have encountered by some who oppose instruments on this thread, particularly towards me.

Ive seen it too. And tho I agree with acapella music I don't condone the haughty actions. These threads bug me at times. I just wish we could discuss and learn and not end up in a war over it.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Ive seen it too. And tho I agree with acapella music I don't condone the haughty actions. These threads bug me at times. I just wish we could discuss and learn and not end up in a war over it.

I like acapella music too and I absolutely support everyone who is convicted in this way. We all must follow our convictions. I must make music for Jesus, the Psalms of the Bible that I am singing on and setting music to. Because I'd feel that I was wrongdoing if I would NOT do it... all not done of faith is sin and otherwise...
If you want to, PM me and when I finish Psalm 61 or another acapella song that is in progress, I'll share. Btw, do you personally feel convicted on instruments in music for God in every case, or just when played in church building?

 

[Elizabeth619]

I like acapella music too and I absolutely support everyone who is convicted in this way. We all must follow our convictions. I must make music for Jesus, the Psalms of the Bible that I am singing on and setting music to. Because I'd feel that I was wrongdoing if I would NOT do it... all not done of faith is sin and otherwise...
If you want to, PM me and when I finish Psalm 61 or another acapella song that is in progress, I'll share. Btw, do you personally feel convicted on instruments in music for God in every case, or just when played in church building?

I have to run to town for a while but will get back with you on this. IF I forget remind me lol

 

[didymos]

I was walking, was living
My melody was acapella
Theres a beat I was missing
No tune, or a scale, I could play...

Before you,
My whole life was acapella!
Now a symphony's
The only song to sing!

[video=youtube;lqKyQGQ23TI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqKyQGQ23TI[/video]

 

[crossnote]

I was walking, was living
My melody was acapella
Theres a beat I was missing
No tune, or a scale, I could play...

Before you,
My whole life was acapella!
Now a symphony's
The only song to sing!

[video=youtube;lqKyQGQ23TI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqKyQGQ23TI[/video]

Well if one is going to bring in the Symphony analogy, then He is not the bass or lead guitar or the drums...He is the Conductor...unless that was some kind of love song from a girl to some guy.
Ehhh, and that constant drone for the background would cause anyone, even me, to turn to acapella music.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I like acapella music too and I absolutely support everyone who is convicted in this way. We all must follow our convictions. I must make music for Jesus, the Psalms of the Bible that I am singing on and setting music to. Because I'd feel that I was wrongdoing if I would NOT do it... all not done of faith is sin and otherwise...
If you want to, PM me and when I finish Psalm 61 or another acapella song that is in progress, I'll share. Btw, do you personally feel convicted on instruments in music for God in every case, or just when played in church building?

I will say I've studied hard on this and I prefer to worship only acapella. Does this mean I'm totally against mechanical instruments? Not at all. I used to play trumpet actually, but when it comes to scripture and God not actually giving a command to have certain instruments i would rather steer away from certain practices while worshipping the Lord.
Theres also the fact that i absolutely love instrumental music. I've been known to pay more attention to the beautiful sound than the message.
Example: I love amazing grace on bagpipes. If I heard bagpipes I'd listen to its sound more than the powerful message in the song.

 

[didymos]

Well if one is going to bring in the Symphony analogy, then He is not the bass or lead guitar or the drums...He is the Conductor...unless that was some kind of love song from a girl to some guy.
Ehhh, and that constant drone for the background would cause anyone, even me, to turn to acapella music.

There are a lot of lovesongs that could be interpreted in a christian way,
even though they're not about God at all.

I do like all kinds of classical music, but I STILL love that drone too.


[video=youtube;1zGOsN0pAw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zGOsN0pAw0[/video]

 

[SeaBass]

If opponents of instruments in worship say OT is abolished, even in principles, why do they jump into their own mouth and then go into and use OT to prove their points? If is not applicable, then it is not applicable... cant have a cake and eat it.
Btw I can understand (and honor) someone's conviction against instruments, but some make a doctrinal issue out of it when it is not.
Plus the evil type of laughter I have encountered by some who oppose instruments on this thread, particularly towards me.

Why would the command to sing not be a doctrinal issue?

Must God's commands be obeyed or can they simply be ignored?

Why do you laugh at those that are doing their best to obey what God has commanded?