Music in Church?

[Sirk]

Why would we use an animal sacrifice today after the sacrifice of Christ? It is finished! No further sacrifices needed (Hebrews 10:9-14). In regards to your argument about no musical instruments used in the first century church, no church in the first century owned its own building, but met in homes or in other public places. No church in the first century had pews. No church in the first century had electricity or sound systems. The Bible never mentions whether any church service included a time of announcements or a Sunday School. We have all of these and I am convinced that they are acceptable. I assume you have none of these in your church.

Practices of the church fit into three categories: the scriptural, the unscriptural, and the non-scriptural. The scriptural were those things that we are commanded to do in the Bible and we should always do those things. The unscriptural are those things we are commanded not to do and we should always avoid these things. The non-scriptural are those things that are not spoken of in the Bible. Those things that are non-scriptural must be examined in the light of scripture to see if they fulfill scriptural goals or not. If they do, they belong with the scriptural. If they do not, they belong to the unscriptural. For instance, the New Testament does not mention the Sunday School since it is a much later invention. However, if the Sunday School is properly used to teach the Bible (a scriptural command) and to reach the lost (another scriptural command), then the Sunday School becomes a scriptural practice.

Musical instruments, if used with care, can enhance the singing of praise to the Lord. That was seen by the Christian church that split from the church of Christ. Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament and in heaven. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is considered a blessing in heaven is an evil in the New Testament church. The burden of proof would lie on you and not on me.

As I previously stated: Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm is "psallo" which means to means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument.

If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative. But I don't believe that it's right for them to judge and condemn everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did, as the angels in heaven do and as the apostle Paul instructed.

Can I get an AMEN!!!!

 

[posthuman]

True worshippers worship according to God's word and not according to their own feelings or ideas.

the difference here is that there is abundant justification in God's word for using music to worship Him, but the justification for forbidding it rests on human feelings and ideas, not on God's word. your whole argument rests on silence - because in the new testament scriptures it is never specifically commanded of us, you fill in that it is commanded not to do these things, using human ideas and feelings.
when the scripture says it is good to make music to the Lord and never says it is not, and you say it is evil in every case, how can you think you are arguing from God's word, and not human feelings and ideas?

if we are only to do what is specifically said in the new testament, and completely ignore the old, please show me where it is specifically and literally written that i must wear pants.

please hurry, because i have a home group meeting to leave for in 45min, and if i need to go naked in order not to offend the Lord by taking liberty in my freedom, i need time to undress.

 

[posthuman]

I never said it was "wicked." I would like to see where musical authorization is permitted in the NT.

and i would like to see where it is said in the NT that doing the things called "good" in the OT out of a free-will offering in love is sinful.


also where is it specifically commanded in the NT to wear pants . . ?

 

[MsLimpet]

and i would like to see where it is said in the NT that doing the things called "good" in the OT out of a free-will offering in love is sinful.


also where is it specifically commanded in the NT to wear pants . . ?

We are under the NT Law.

 

[Sirk]

the difference here is that there is abundant justification in God's word for using music to worship Him, but the justification for forbidding it rests on human feelings and ideas, not on God's word. your whole argument rests on silence - because in the new testament scriptures it is never specifically commanded of us, you fill in that it is commanded not to do these things, using human ideas and feelings.
when the scripture says it is good to make music to the Lord and never says it is not, and you say it is evil in every case, how can you think you are arguing from God's word, and not human feelings and ideas?

if we are only to do what is specifically said in the new testament, and completely ignore the old, please show me where it is specifically and literally written that i must wear pants.

please hurry, because i have a home group meeting to leave for in 45min, and if i need to go naked in order not to offend the Lord by taking liberty in my freedom, i need time to undress.

I'm pretty sure pants are okay....as long as they are from the cured hide of a 5 legged 3 year old male he goat.

 

[tourist]

I'm pretty sure pants are okay....as long as they are from the cured hide of a 5 legged 3 year old male he goat.

I agree. I believe that a goat is considered to be a 'clean' animal so as to not to defile anyone.

 

[posthuman]

We are under the NT Law.

and does that law say "thou shalt not do anything that was considered good in the OT" ?
specifically, does it specifically say that i must wear pants?

i need to know in the next 30 minutes so i don't use my liberty in Christ as a stumbling block by showing up to bible study fully clothed, if it is not specifically written that i must wear pants.
no OT scripture about wearing clothes will do, obviously, lol.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I've heard many Christians say that musical instruments and certain musical things can not be used in Church. I'm curious, why does that belief even exist? I'm not even being mean in asking why some of you believe this way. I'm just asking to get a better idea of why. Please, do not fight.

Bible scripture to use defending this?

None. God is looking for pureness of heart, not human noise used to cover up iniquity. Amos 5:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.

Stand before God without making useless noise to somehow cover up sin.
Music in worship isn't condemned, but when music doesn't testify of a congregation's holiness, it means nothing to God. It is then merely a pacifier to the rebels.

AWAKE CHURCH. Make the words and noise of your heart match your flesh noises. If there's no match, then ask the Lord what he will accept. Upon hearing his word for you, act upon it.

 

[tourist]

and i would like to see where it is said in the NT that doing the things called "good" in the OT out of a free-will offering in love is sinful.


also where is it specifically commanded in the NT to wear pants . . ?

I believe that only the wearing of cloaks is permitted in the NT just like in a toga party at National Lampoon. I don't believe that musical instruments were used either in that movie.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

and does that law say "thou shalt not do anything that was considered good in the OT" ?
specifically, does it specifically say that i must wear pants?

i need to know in the next 30 minutes so i don't use my liberty in Christ as a stumbling block by showing up to bible study fully clothed, if it is not specifically written that i must wear pants.
no OT scripture about wearing clothes will do, obviously, lol.

Whatever you do don't offend the brethren you assemble with.

 

[Sirk]

[video=youtube;G1xqI_4btnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1xqI_4btnc[/video]

 

[SoulWeaver]

None. God is looking for pureness of heart, not human noise used to cover up iniquity. Amos 5:21-23 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.

Stand before God without making useless noise to somehow cover up sin.
Music in worship isn't condemned, but when music doesn't testify of a congregation's holiness, it means nothing to God. It is then merely a pacifier to the rebels.

AWAKE CHURCH. Make the words and noise of your heart match your flesh noises. If there's no match, then ask the Lord what he will accept. Upon hearing his word for you, act upon it.

Context... God is talking to people backsliding at that moment, He dislikes their music because they dont listen to Him and are not offering it with the right heart. While others' and angelic instrumental music He enjoyed and blessed.
How can you conclude that a person using instruments is necessarily in bad spiritual state, and otherwise?
This is so arrogant that I dont know where to begin. You are not God... you cant know heart of anybody but yourself.

 

[Ukorin]

Taking the Lord's name in vain and cross-dressing are not reaffirmed as sin in the NT.
Reaffirmation hermeneutic is bad hermeneutic, and is a lack of understanding of what the Covanant is that we are under.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Why would we use an animal sacrifice today after the sacrifice of Christ? It is finished! No further sacrifices needed (Hebrews 10:9-14). In regards to your argument about no musical instruments used in the first century church, no church in the first century owned its own building, but met in homes or in other public places. No church in the first century had pews. No church in the first century had electricity or sound systems. The Bible never mentions whether any church service included a time of announcements or a Sunday School. We have all of these and I am convinced that they are acceptable. I assume you have none of these in your church.

Practices of the church fit into three categories: the scriptural, the unscriptural, and the non-scriptural. The scriptural were those things that we are commanded to do in the Bible and we should always do those things. The unscriptural are those things we are commanded not to do and we should always avoid these things. The non-scriptural are those things that are not spoken of in the Bible. Those things that are non-scriptural must be examined in the light of scripture to see if they fulfill scriptural goals or not. If they do, they belong with the scriptural. If they do not, they belong to the unscriptural. For instance, the New Testament does not mention the Sunday School since it is a much later invention. However, if the Sunday School is properly used to teach the Bible (a scriptural command) and to reach the lost (another scriptural command), then the Sunday School becomes a scriptural practice.

Scriptural means it agrees with the oracles of God, unscriptural means it does NOT agree with the oracles of God. un and non are one in the same.

Musical instruments, if used with care, can enhance the singing of praise to the Lord.

What makes you think the Lord needs your enhancements? was His way not good enough for Him?

That was seen by the Christian church that split from the church of Christ. Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament and in heaven. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is considered a blessing in heaven is an evil in the New Testament church. The burden of proof would lie on you and not on me.

The problem the Christian church has is that they cannot prove mechanical musical instruments are authorized by our Lord, they prefer like you to be "Will Worshipers" filling their own bellies.

Colossians 2:23 (KJV)
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Some versions call this "self imposed religion" :

Colossians 2:23 (NKJV)
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

As I previously stated:

Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm is "psallo" which means to means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument.

It says "one to another" therefore the commandment is for all, so if it is a mechanical musical instrument Paul referred to then everyone in your congregation needs to learn to play the instruments as you cannot worship for someone else and the command is for all.

If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative. But I don't believe that it's right for them to judge and condemn everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did, as the angels in heaven do and as the apostle Paul instructed.

You are mistaken to think we are not to judge, it says to judge as we are to be judged :

Matthew 7:2 (KJV)
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

I am to try the spirits :

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Your teaching is false and I am to mark you like the Christian church denomination :

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

[tourist]

[video=youtube;G1xqI_4btnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1xqI_4btnc[/video]

Thank you for setting me straight. I did notice that the guy smashed his guitar when he realized that musical instruments were not permitted.

 

[Sirk]

Thank you for setting me straight. I did notice that the guy smashed his guitar when he realized that musical instruments were not permitted.

You are welcome...and it is very perceptive of you to notice the righteous indignation and subsequent smashing of what was obviously an abomination.

 

[posthuman]

Matthew 7:2 (KJV)
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

are you wearing pants JabberJaw?
to my knowledge it is not specifically authorized in the NT to wear pants. . .

 

[posthuman]

What makes you think the Lord needs your enhancements? was His way not good enough for Him?

enhancements?

like, for example, adding an extra-biblical law against playing a lute?
was God's way when the Holy Spirit authored the Psalms not good enough for you?

 

[Sirk]

are you wearing pants JabberJaw?
i don't believe it is specifically authorized in the NT to wear pants. . .

It is also not specifically authorized as to which leg is to enter said pants first....so even if pants are authorized in there somewhere you have a 50% chance that you are doing it wrong.

 

[Tintin]

I pity so many people in this thread. There's personal conviction and then there's stupidity. Unfortunately, I see more of the latter here. Thank God we have Tourist and Sirk's wisdom.