Music in Church?

[Atwood]

We need to rightly divide the word of truth- that is old testament and this is new testament. The bible says if we follow one part of a law then we must follow all of it. If you follow any of the old law you must do all of it, including stoning people and paying for things with certain animals instead of money. Christ has ALL authority today- that leaves none for Moses. We are no longer to listen to the law and the prophets, but only to God's Son, says the Father Himself with His own voice.

During all of Christ's life on earth before the cross, the Law of Moses was in force. There was no Church.

Moses is a prophet of God; all scripture is theopneustos & profitable. Christ quoted the OT to prove his points in debates. But the Law of Moses was a dispensational system which ended at the cross. The scripture of primary significance to the Church starts at Acts 2, though some in the gospels looks to the Church Age by future reference (Mat 18 & parts of John, for example). All prophets OT & NT speak for Christ.

 

[Atwood]

Beware of the error of "primitivism." In the Church we are not instructed to do things just because they were done in the early church & to refrain from what was not done then. The teaching is to obey the propositions laid down in God's word as they apply to us, not to copy things that were done per se.

 

[A_Friend_In_Christ]

Unless it is forbidden in the bible music should be allowed in the church? I think so.

 

[Ukorin]

I think a misunderstanding of dispensations is much of what is causing the problem.
The progressive revelation of God's plan of Redemption is mistaken for God changing His mind and personality. In this way, we agree Atwood.

Christ did not change the requirements of Salvation. Christ revealed the requirements to mankind, by revealing the Father to mankind, as His perfect image.

So, I agree with your practical application, but we likely disagree on the identity of the Church, and about it's formation including the OT saints.

 

[Ukorin]

Unless it is forbidden in the bible music should be allowed in the church? I think so.

And that is the simple heart of the issue. If there is no Biblical prohibition, or Biblical principle to justify a new prohibition, then the prohibition is man-made law.

In fact, the references made to instrumental music in the OT and Revelation justify it as worthy praise of the Almighty. To say anything otherwise is just worldly philosophy contradicting the principles of Scripture.

 

[Tintin]

We need to rightly divide the word of truth- that is old testament and this is new testament. The bible says if we follow one part of a law then we must follow all of it. If you follow any of the old law you must do all of it, including stoning people and paying for things with certain animals instead of money. Christ has ALL authority today- that leaves none for Moses. We are no longer to listen to the law and the prophets, but only to God's Son, says the Father Himself with His own voice.

Yes! Hence, why we're free to play our instruments unto the LORD!

 

[JaumeJ]

Make a joyful noise to the Lord. Praise Him on the harp, on the timbral, on the horn on stringed instruments, any joyful noise to the Lord make it always. Do not bar joy in salvation, it is always to the Lord, amen.

 

[Mitspa]

During all of Christ's life on earth before the cross, the Law of Moses was in force. There was no Church.

Moses is a prophet of God; all scripture is theopneustos & profitable. Christ quoted the OT to prove his points in debates. But the Law of Moses was a dispensational system which ended at the cross. The scripture of primary significance to the Church starts at Acts 2, though some in the gospels looks to the Church Age by future reference (Mat 18 & parts of John, for example). All prophets OT & NT speak for Christ.

In 2Cor 3 It tells us that some are blinded from seeing the end of the ministry of death and condemnation, written and engraved on stones..(clearly the Ten Commandments). Which is really what some have a hard time seeing has passed in the that Christ fulfilled all the law. I try to help some see that Christ commandment to love is the only way to fulfill any part of what the law demanded. For when we love, we are keeping the "law written upon our hearts"...its the only way

 

[Lynx]

Err... Mitspa what does that have to do with music in church?

 

[Mitspa]

Err... Mitspa what does that have to do with music in church?

Are you going to follow me around now...read the post I responded to and the context of where the discussion of the thread has went...I think 'legalism" in its self is where most are missing the truth of worship....we worship God in Spirit and truth, based upon who we are in Christ...not by the rules of the law, with do's and dont's...

 

[posthuman]

The bible says if we follow one part of a law then we must follow all of it.

actually, it says if we become circumcised we are obligated to keep the whole law, not if we do anything that was required by the law. (Galatians 5:1-12)

circumcision is a sign of covenant. marking ourselves as proselytes to the law obligates us to keep it all. obeying the command "thou shalt not covet" doesn't place us under the curse of the law - it just fulfills righteousness.

but that's moot with regard to this question about music, because using instrumental music in our worship isn't done as though it were a law - it's not being set up as a rule that anyone is holding anyone else accountable to, and it's not being pointed to as a reason that anyone becomes justified before God by doing. furthermore, it wasn't regarded as a law even under the old covenant that everyone had to play a lyre; it was done by priests out of free-will with joy and thankfulness, as a gift to God and an help in ministering to the people.

that's the same as it is now - it's done out of free will, for joy, and gratitude, and not being held up as a justification of those that do it, or being required of anyone in order to be justified. it's just a gift at the altar, one that was approved by God but not commanded, and it doesn't need to be "re-justified" - just done with a right heart and spirit.

 

[Lynx]

Mitspa: I think you're following me. (At least I didn't see where you posted in this thread before I did... but I haven't read the whole thread.) Be warned, I brake hard for tailgaters. =^.^=

But yes, I see what you are saying. And it seems to me that legalism would be hard on the stomach too. All the defining rules and regulations based on "this was not explicitly mentioned in the Bible" must cause ulcers.

In the meantime, do you play any instruments Mitspa? I could fire up on the flute and play a duet to your guitar for the entertainment of the other participants in this thread.

 

[tourist]

Mitspa: I think you're following me. (At least I didn't see where you posted in this thread before I did... but I haven't read the whole thread.) Be warned, I brake hard for tailgaters. =^.^=

But yes, I see what you are saying. And it seems to me that legalism would be hard on the stomach too. All the defining rules and regulations based on "this was not explicitly mentioned in the Bible" must cause ulcers.

In the meantime, do you play any instruments Mitspa? I could fire up on the flute and play a duet to your guitar for the entertainment of the other participants in this thread.

We should get a gig in the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band thread. Of course the only way I can play on an instrument is to bang on pots and pans. I agree that this type of instrument may be disruptive to play in church and may be frowned upon.

 

[p_rehbein]

[h=1]Psalms
150[/h]
1 .) Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2 .) Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3 .) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 .) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 .) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6 .) Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.


pots 'n' pans ring out in praise of God....................and He smiles!

 

[Sirk]

I tap on the chair in front of me to the beat of the music sometimes. Is that sinning...even double sinning...cuz the band is playing instruments and I am acting in percussive manner. Oh woes me....I can't win.

 

[p_rehbein]

It is only sinful if the chair is out of tune................well, as I understand it anyway............save a soul : tune a chair!

 

[Sirk]

It is only sinful if the chair is out of tune................well, as I understand it anyway............save a soul : tune a chair!

How can we tune it without sinning tho? Would't using a pitch pipe be a sin too. We must have perfect pitch and tune it with our voice.

 

[Sirk]

I just realized something.....the words singing and sinning are very very close. How do we know that it wasn't a misprint and instead of singing we are told to go on sinning in the new testament?

 

[p_rehbein]

The Holy Spirit is our "pitch pipe/tuning fork," for all who sing praises to God sing to His Joy!

(just being mushy now............)

 

[SeaBass]

No where does it say one falls from grace by using instruments in the way of worship...another fallacy on your part!

Disobedience to God is why one falls from grace and if God commanded me to do "A" but I do "B" that is sufficient for me to fall from grace. God WILL have vengeance upon all those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8.