Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

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gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
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Would you believe the literal words of the OT law(which is what the Jews actually had) was no easier to obey than Christ's teaching in the Beatitudes?
Yes they are both equally impossible for us to obey, Remember I do not see them a two laws. Jesus was not giving new laws but putting the Old in their proper context. This is the point that the Jews did not get, they thought they could obey. Had they realized their inability to do so they would have entered Faith and only then Could God do in them what the law intended.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Yes they are both equally impossible for us to obey, Remember I do not see them a two laws. Jesus was not giving new laws but putting the Old in their proper context. This is the point that the Jews did not get, they thought they could obey. Had they realized their inability to do so they would have entered Faith and only then Could God do in them what the law intended.
So what has caused you to go back to the law thinking that you have the ability to obey when the Jews, who the law was given to, could not?
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
So what has caused you to go back to the law thinking that you have the ability to obey when the Jews, who the law was given to, could not?
First I am not going back, I broke the law as a natural man to Go back is to revive again what Christ has killed. To break the law is to go back to my old man.

But that old man was crucified with Christ.

I don't have the ability to obey, Yet I do. how is that possible?

Only in Christ is it possible. It is not my work but the works of Christ in me. As Jesus said of His Father:

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So I say, but the Lord Jesus who dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Its not about me its about Him. How to explain this I struggle to find the words.

To the outside eye one might say I am able to obey the law.

But the reality is it is not I but Christ that lives in me, and the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who gave Himself for me.

My good works are not my own but His. It is Him, His Grace.

Thus I can not Glory in anything save the Cross.

So no I am not going back to the law, rather through faith in Christ and His sacrifice He fulfills the law in me and anyone who accepts His death.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
So what has caused you to go back to the law thinking that you have the ability to obey when the Jews, who the law was given to, could not?
just because we are not perfect we dont use that as an excuse to go full mystery of iniquity...

So where is the verse that says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me....except obey?"

does not exist....

John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John (Yahchanan) 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers.You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

How is it that the battle cry of the modern christian is "we can never do what He asks"

my how the circus has transformed the minds of the people it is devouring.... this guy teaches we can obey;


James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

1 John 1:6-10, "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, but walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the alight, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Yahshua Messiah His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

we are not perfect and wont be in the flesh, yet we are to put the bolld of the Passover Lamb on the door frames of our hearts and seek to walk the narrow path, always showing our sin on our hands to our Father, never hiding it, but confessing it...

Isayah 59:1-3, "Behold, Yahweh's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, so He will not listen. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; sin. Your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."


John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

His mercy abounds, may we walk in it with great reverence, for He is going to return, and YHWH is the Most High.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
First I am not going back, I broke the law as a natural man to Go back is to revive again what Christ has killed. To break the law is to go back to my old man.

But that old man was crucified with Christ.

I don't have the ability to obey, Yet I do. how is that possible?

Only in Christ is it possible. It is not my work but the works of Christ in me. As Jesus said of His Father:

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So I say, but the Lord Jesus who dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Its not about me its about Him. How to explain this I struggle to find the words.

To the outside eye one might say I am able to obey the law.

But the reality is it is not I but Christ that lives in me, and the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who gave Himself for me.

My good works are not my own but His. It is Him, His Grace.

Thus I can not Glory in anything save the Cross.

So no I am not going back to the law, rather through faith in Christ and His sacrifice He fulfills the law in me and anyone who accepts His death.
Every time I talk to you, you get better and better at this. Soon you will have me convinced that you no longer work at the law...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
just because we are not perfect we dont use that as an excuse to go full mystery of iniquity...

So where is the verse that says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me....except obey?"

does not exist....

John (Yahchanan) 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166. poimén)."

John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John (Yahchanan) 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers.You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

How is it that the battle cry of the modern christian is "we can never do what He asks"

my how the circus has transformed the minds of the people it is devouring.... this guy teaches we can obey;


James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

1 John 1:6-10, "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, but walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the alight, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Yahshua Messiah His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

we are not perfect and wont be in the flesh, yet we are to put the bolld of the Passover Lamb on the door frames of our hearts and seek to walk the narrow path, always showing our sin on our hands to our Father, never hiding it, but confessing it...

Isayah 59:1-3, "Behold, Yahweh's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; nor His ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But your own iniquities have separated you from your Father; and your own sins have caused Him to hide His face from you, so He will not listen. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; sin. Your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."


John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

His mercy abounds, may we walk in it with great reverence, for He is going to return, and YHWH is the Most High.
Just when I thought you were understanding what makes us righteous...

Romans 9:30-31
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

It certainly is a mystery of iniquity if those who follow after the very law of righteousness don't attain it.

wherefore? Why?

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Righteousness is by faith and not by the works of the law? When did that happen?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Just when I thought you were understanding what makes us righteous...

Romans 9:30-31
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

It certainly is a mystery of iniquity if those who follow after the very law of righteousness don't attain it.

wherefore? Why?

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Righteousness is by faith and not by the works of the law? When did that happen?
lol so is that an excuse to say, I can never obey?

or is there a gep between I can never obey and im justified by my own actions?

maybe in between those two false ideas there is the Word of YHWH?

YHWH calling for obedience while giving mercy?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
I testify before YHWH and every living thing in the heavens and earth that seeking to and keeping the Torah/Laws/Instructions of YHWH is showing love to YHWH and our fellow human.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

may any who think differently repent of that falsehood, and know, we are not perfect, but there is only one standard of love, and that is spoken though the mouth of YHWH.

All the nations, which You have made, will come and worship in front of You, O YHWH, and glorify Your Name. For You are great and do wondrous things; You Alone, O YHWH, are our Father. Teach us Your way
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
think I will just believe the bible :)


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

LOVE not legalism!
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Romans 2:4-15, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them.”

ok so we a born with a white garment...

as we live it gets spots on it...even blood on it....

then we meet Yahshua (Salvation of YHWH) and He makes our garment white again....

yet we cant seem to keep it clean....yet He is there as High Priest/Intercessor before YHWH to keep us clean....

that is IF we abide in Him....

now lets say at the end of "the day" our garments are white! praise Yah right? Yes, because out garments are not white because of our holiness, for if it were purely based on us our garments would be black, red or purple.....for we have no ability to wash our garments, only to add black, red or purple and yes when we do right we can even add a thread of white....but what about those black spots? It is His mercy that makes those white.... Without that action of Him cleansing us we would be covered in black spots..... any who enter the kingdom will do so because of he Mercy grated by YHWH unto His children....period. Now this does not mean I reject all His Instructions, not just the opposite, we would uphold His Instruction, for if we had no way of reconciliation I could see a human saying, "there is no hope, I will now choose my own path" yet we have reconciliation, so it is my will, that with the mind and body He has given me, that I may do His will and walk His narrow path....will I ever stumble? Probably....when I stumble do I just say oh well and dive? or do I grab hold of the Foundation? Yes, I grab hold of the Foundation (Yahshua) and seek to get back on the narrow path (the Torah/Instructions)... after all ho's instructions do we want? the world's instructions? of YHWH's Instructions?


PS 119

129 Your testimonies are wonderful, therefore my soul keeps them.

130 The entrance of your words gives light. It gives understanding to the simple.

131 I opened my mouth wide and panted, for I longed for your commandments.

132 Turn to me, and have mercy on me, as you always do to those who love your name.

133 Establish my footsteps in your word. Don't let any iniquity have dominion over me.

134 Redeem me from the oppression of man, so I will observe your precepts.

135 Make your face shine on your servant. Teach me your statutes.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."


James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

PS 119

5 Oh that my ways were steadfast to obey your statutes!

6 Then I wouldn't be disappointed, when I consider all of your commandments.


7 I will give thanks to you with uprightness of heart, when I learn your righteous judgments.

8 I will observe your statutes. Don't utterly forsake me.

John (Yahchanan) 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers.You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."

It is written the word of YHWH is sharper than a two-edged sword.....

Romans 2:15, "Since they show that the requirements of the Law are written in their hearts, their conscience also bears witness, and their thoughts now accuse or else try to excuse them."

626 - apologeomai
apologeomai: to give an account of oneself, hence to defend oneself
Original Word: ?p??????µa?
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apologeomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-og-eh'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I give a defense, defend myself
Definition: I give a defense, defend myself (especially in a law court): it can take an object of what is said in defense.

1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron."

1 Yahchanan 3:20-21, "For if our heart condemns us, Yahweh is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before Yahweh."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

1 Corinthians 4:4-5, "For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, for He Who judges me is Yahweh! Therefore, judge nothing before the time. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from Yahweh."

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My (Yahshua/Jesus) words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
think I will just believe the bible :)


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

LOVE not legalism!
Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
praise YHWH for His mercy endures! and to those of us who have partaken in this mercy, do we then do whatever we deem fit as love or do we seek Him as in guidance on how to love?
 
Sep 16, 2014
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I testify before YHWH and every living thing in the heavens and earth that seeking to and keeping the Torah/Laws/Instructions of YHWH is showing love to YHWH and our fellow human.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 John 5:2-3 (ESV), "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome."

may any who think differently repent of that falsehood, and know, we are not perfect, but there is only one standard of love, and that is spoken though the mouth of YHWH.

All the nations, which You have made, will come and worship in front of You, O YHWH, and glorify Your Name. For You are great and do wondrous things; You Alone, O YHWH, are our Father. Teach us Your way
It is severe error to make I John 2 to apply to Exodus 20. I've highlighted what you took out of context, which totally refutes New Testament doctrine, particularly that of Paul.

Jesus is the subject, not Moses or the old covenant at all.
Our power comes from our faith in Christ alone, not attempting obedience to the hugely burdensome Law of sin and death.
Our power from God enables us to resist Satan, overcome the world, and live in Jesus' victory.

What you did was to shift all glory off Jesus onto Moses, promoting the system that Israel could not follow, ending up exiled as slaves twice in their history, divorced from God. Else what was your purpose for only using those two verses to accompany Exo. 20:6? There is no mention, no reference to the old covenant in the passage of 1 John 5. The book of 1 John is concerning the NEW COVENANT. New. Not a bleand of old and new.

The Jews couldn't handle those grievous laws, save some cherry-picked ordinances, falling into sin as a regular habit, casting aside all their promises. But God keeps his word, will save a remnant in the end. But that won't happen by turning to Moses and the old covenant. It will happen when they turn entirely to Jesus.

Meanwhile the Gentiles flood in to the Kingdom of Heaven, with no commandment to follow the old covenant. No soul was "born again" through the old laws of the Old Testament.
CONTEXT! TRUTH!

1 John 5:1-8 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

[SUP]6 [/SUP] This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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If you take text out of context, all you have left is a ... con.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
It is severe error to make I John 2 to apply to Exodus 20. I've highlighted what you took out of context, which totally refutes New Testament doctrine, particularly that of Paul.

Jesus is the subject, not Moses or the old covenant at all.
Our power comes from our faith in Christ alone, not attempting obedience to the hugely burdensome Law of sin and death.
Our power from God enables us to resist Satan, overcome the world, and live in Jesus' victory.

What you did was to shift all glory off Jesus onto Moses, promoting the system that Israel could not follow, ending up exiled as slaves twice in their history, divorced from God. Else what was your purpose for only using those two verses to accompany Exo. 20:6? There is no mention, no reference to the old covenant in the passage of 1 John 5. The book of 1 John is concerning the NEW COVENANT. New. Not a bleand of old and new.

The Jews couldn't handle those grievous laws, save some cherry-picked ordinances, falling into sin as a regular habit, casting aside all their promises. But God keeps his word, will save a remnant in the end. But that won't happen by turning to Moses and the old covenant. It will happen when they turn entirely to Jesus.

Meanwhile the Gentiles flood in to the Kingdom of Heaven, with no commandment to follow the old covenant. No soul was "born again" through the old laws of the Old Testament.
CONTEXT! TRUTH!

1 John 5:1-8 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

[SUP]6 [/SUP] This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
first off ths is not in the original/oldest manuscripts: "[SUP]8 [/SUP] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. "

no soul was born again through "OT" ? so go full mystery of iniquity? or follow the Lamb?


second the definition of sin has not changed:

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

not even the smallest letter;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

So I will not invent my own standard;

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

but rather will submit to YHWH's Standard, and ask for mercy when I transgress.

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

James 1:22-25, " But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does."

as I seek to worship in Spirit and truth.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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Every time I talk to you, you get better and better at this. Soon you will have me convinced that you no longer work at the law...
Working at the law brings death friend as you know. To try to be saved by your works is a denial of the cross. It is prideful and arrogant to work at the law for salvation. But don't get me wrong I am not against the law for it came by the will of God.

Gods Grace completes the law in Christ. The love that the law spoke of that we could not attain to because of our fallen nature, Christ brings to fruition in us by His Grace and power to save.

The law simply showed me my hopeless condition, It showed me I was a weak, ungodly, sinner and an enemy of God by showing me what is good.

It showed me I was weak when I tried to do it and could not. But then the Grace of Christ came and In Christ I found a rest, a joy, and He changed my heart. Suddenly the unattainable became attainable. But not because of anything in me but because Christ is my strength, as it is written:

2Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.



2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.

So it is that the battle against sin is not ours but God's so let us stand still and see the salvation of the Lord.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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0
praise YHWH for His mercy endures! and to those of us who have partaken in this mercy, do we then do whatever we deem fit as love or do we seek Him as in guidance on how to love?
Romans 12:1-2, "Therefore, I appeal to you, brothers, by the mercies of YHWH, that You present your bodies as living sacrifices, holy, acceptable to YHWH, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to the pattern of this world; but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may be able to test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of YHWH."

Hebrews 12:28-29, "Therefore, since we are receiving a Kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have and hold humility, by which we may serve YHWH acceptably with reverence and awe: For our Father is a consuming fire."

Hebrew 13:15 Therefore, through Him, let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to YHWH, that is, the fruit of our lips that thankfully confess His Name.

" test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of YHWH"


" test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of YHWH"


" test and prove what is the righteous, and acceptable, and perfect will of YHWH"


Psalm 40:16, "May all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You! May those who love Your Salvation always say: May YHWH be magnified!"
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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Working at the law brings death friend as you know. To try to be saved by your works is a denial of the cross. It is prideful and arrogant to work at the law for salvation. But don't get me wrong I am not against the law for it came by the will of God.

Gods Grace completes the law in Christ. The love that the law spoke of that we could not attain to because of our fallen nature, Christ brings to fruition in us by His Grace and power to save.

The law simply showed me my hopeless condition, It showed me I was a weak, ungodly, sinner and an enemy of God by showing me what is good.

It showed me I was weak when I tried to do it and could not. But then the Grace of Christ came and In Christ I found a rest, a joy, and He changed my heart. Suddenly the unattainable became attainable. But not because of anything in me but because Christ is my strength, as it is written:

2Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.



2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.

So it is that the battle against sin is not ours but God's so let us stand still and see the salvation of the Lord.
The law didn't show you that. The Holy Spirit did. The carnal mind thinks it can keep the law.

Its not so hard to rest on saturdays. Its not so hard to refrain from killing people, usually...

The battle against sin is not our own...

2 Corinthians 12:7-12
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Meaning, when there is nowhere else to go, but to God Himself, that is when His Power is seen.