Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[keeth]

you don't believe the bible...you don't believe what it clearly says!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

You are a liar. I do believe the bible, and I do believe the verse you quoted. I just don't believe that it means we should no longer keep God's commandments as you do. I have been delivered from the condemnation of the law in Christ. He has not delivered me so I can and will continue breaking the law, but to the contrary, that I might follow His example and keep it as He did. Tell me sir, do you believe the following words of Jesus Christ?

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do you believe the above words of the Lord Jesus Christ or not? Please do answer this question and do not ignore it. Do you believe it? What do you say the highlighted and embolden words mean?

 

[gotime]

Thanks for your post, and the manner in which you wrote it. Obviously I agree, the need for grace and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. But you say you tell your congregation the law MUST be kept 100% I must repeat. Which law? Does this include all of Jesus teaching as well as the Ten Commandments? You see, I have never met any Christian who obeys all of them, from any denomination. If you say the law MUST be kept 100%(and I am simply being honest) I could not be a member of your church. For in my heart and mind I know I cannot obey/do not the law 100% That would put me back in the state I was in as a teenager. For by the way you worded your statement the law MUST BE KEPT 100% Do you not see what I am saying here? Basically if I joined your church I would believe my right standing before God IN EFFECT meant perfect obedience to the law.
Paul says Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness. That is not possible if the Christian MUST obey the law 100% For then they are at least in part dependant on observing the law for right standing before God. Paul says if you believe that faith can mean nothing to you, therefore you are cut off from grace for grace comes through faith.

The church I go to now, the minister preached this morning on faith. He quoted Rom 10:4. He said, no matter how much you try and obey the law you cannot meet the standard set under it. You cannot perfectly obey it. I fully agree with him. So he would not preach you must obey the law 100% for he knows what the inference then must be.

I suppose I should qualify my statement and use better wording. I preach you can keep the law. The emphasis is not on performance in our church, its on having Faith in Christ to get you there.

As I am sure you know we do not have the ability to obey 100%, that is why the only way to obey is through Faith in the promises of God through Jesus. We emphasis Christs ability to cleanse sin out of our life and to keep us by His Power.

So obeying the law is not my job its Jesus'. My Job is to 1, have faith/trust Him and 2/ submit to Him as Lord of my life.

Now how can I have faith in something that I think is not possible even with Jesus? I can't that is why we emphasis the high standard the law gives. In order for our faith/trust in Jesus to blossom.

I can honestly say that obeying the law of God has never been easier, Yet I can also honestly say that without Him I will fall. I need Him every second of every day for the rest of this walk on earth and then forever.

See the reason I can obey is because He is doing the works in me. Remember when Jesus spoke of being one with the father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

notice that Jesus says the works are a evidence of His oneness with His Father. but then notice what He says next:

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

we shall do the works if we believe on Him. Remember what Jesus said about the works as evidence of His oneness with the Father.

So then what does us doing works show? That's right Jesus is saying we will have the same relationship with God as He has had, how?

The text tells us:

...because I go unto my Father. what does that mean?

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus will send the Holy Spirit and we will become one with God.

Peter put it this way:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John said it this way:

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Paul said it this way:

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

quicken our "mortal" bodies.

There is only one way to keep the law and that is Christ in you the hope of Glory. its about relationship:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Mitspa]

You are a liar. I do believe the bible, and I do believe the verse you quoted. I just don't believe that it means we should no longer keep God's commandments as you do. I have been delivered from the condemnation of the law in Christ. He has not delivered me so I can and will continue breaking the law, but to the contrary, that I might follow His example and keep it as He did. Tell me sir, do you believe the following words of Jesus Christ?

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do you believe the above words of the Lord Jesus Christ or not? Please do answer this question and do not ignore it. Do you believe it? What do you say the highlighted and embolden words mean?

Its very simple...all the law is fulfilled in one word...Love Not legalism!

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[keeth]

well its true and if its not? prove it!

Just quoting someone who says what you do, doesn't make anything true. You have proved nothing, and yet insist that I prove you wrong. You expect me to late out all the doctrines of three different denominations for you and show the differences, rather than you simply stating what the similarities which you accuse us of having are? Get a grip man. Who has that kind of time. Why should you make such an outrageous demand, lest it be because you cannot even lay out the similarities you say we have. If you know this to be true, please do share them, I am not aware or very knowledgeable concerning what they believe anyway.

 

[michael56]

I suppose I should qualify my statement and use better wording. I preach you can keep the law. The emphasis is not on performance in our church, its on having Faith in Christ to get you there.

As I am sure you know we do not have the ability to obey 100%, that is why the only way to obey is through Faith in the promises of God through Jesus. We emphasis Christs ability to cleanse sin out of our life and to keep us by His Power.

So obeying the law is not my job its Jesus'. My Job is to 1, have faith/trust Him and 2/ submit to Him as Lord of my life.

Now how can I have faith in something that I think is not possible even with Jesus? I can't that is why we emphasis the high standard the law gives. In order for our faith/trust in Jesus to blossom.

I can honestly say that obeying the law of God has never been easier, Yet I can also honestly say that without Him I will fall. I need Him every second of every day for the rest of this walk on earth and then forever.

See the reason I can obey is because He is doing the works in me. Remember when Jesus spoke of being one with the father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

notice that Jesus says the works are a evidence of His oneness with His Father. but then notice what He says next:

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

we shall do the works if we believe on Him. Remember what Jesus said about the works as evidence of His oneness with the Father.

So then what does us doing works show? That's right Jesus is saying we will have the same relationship with God as He has had, how?

The text tells us:

...because I go unto my Father. what does that mean?

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus will send the Holy Spirit and we will become one with God.

Peter put it this way:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John said it this way:

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Paul said it this way:

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

quicken our "mortal" bodies.

There is only one way to keep the law and that is Christ in you the hope of Glory. its about relationship:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Thank you for the above. I believe the real difference is in appreciating what it means to have the law written on your mind and placed on your heart(you have been born again of the spirit) Jesus told Nicodemus Ye MUST be born again. It is not an option it is pivotal. Once you have been born again of the Spirit you in your heart want to obey God. His laws are within you. The law is no longer an external law written on tablets of stone but one written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3) I know in my heart how God wants me to live and am acutely aware of all my shortcomings before Him. If I do not cling to grace(Christ) I must sink, for the weight of that law is huge. I have nowhere to hide, Christ upped the OT law so to speak. One example. The law said you shall not commit adultery, but I say if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. The law said do not murder, but Christ said if you get angry with someone you will be subject to judgement etc. For me to be told how well I must obey the law each week, being painfully aware of my shortcomings before God would simply crush me.
If I am honest(and I must be) Many seem not to understand what the weight of the law does. It is easier to state in effect 'you must obey the literal law of the ten commandments.' But if people looked intently into what that requires, how many would say they obey 100%? This I believe is the true difference here, ones understanding of what it means to be born again of the Spirit. Hence my question at the begining of the thread

I

 

[keeth]

Its very simple...all the law is fulfilled in one word...Love Not legalism!

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

So you will not say you believe the words of Christ which I highlighted, nor will you even address them as I asked you too. Yet you accuse me of being the one who does not believe scripture. Why do you suppose you cannot or will not address Christ's words? Love is the fulfillment of the law, the scriptures say so. Are you saying that the scriptures that say so, mean the words of Christ above are no longer true? Or will you and do you ignore all such words of scripture because you must, in order to believe as you do?

 

[gotime]

Thanks for your post, and the manner in which you wrote it. Obviously I agree, the need for grace and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. But you say you tell your congregation the law MUST be kept 100% I must repeat. Which law? Does this include all of Jesus teaching as well as the Ten Commandments? You see, I have never met any Christian who obeys all of them, from any denomination. If you say the law MUST be kept 100%(and I am simply being honest) I could not be a member of your church. For in my heart and mind I know I cannot obey/do not the law 100% That would put me back in the state I was in as a teenager. For by the way you worded your statement the law MUST BE KEPT 100% Do you not see what I am saying here? Basically if I joined your church I would believe my right standing before God IN EFFECT meant perfect obedience to the law.
Paul says Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness. That is not possible if the Christian MUST obey the law 100% For then they are at least in part dependant on observing the law for right standing before God. Paul says if you believe that faith can mean nothing to you, therefore you are cut off from grace for grace comes through faith.

The church I go to now, the minister preached this morning on faith. He quoted Rom 10:4. He said, no matter how much you try and obey the law you cannot meet the standard set under it. You cannot perfectly obey it. I fully agree with him. So he would not preach you must obey the law 100% for he knows what the inference then must be.

sorry I neglected to answer part of your post.

you asked "Does this include all of Jesus teaching as well as the Ten Commandments?"

I see Jesus' teachings from the law itself. I have found nothing in the teachings of Jesus that I could not find in the Old Testament law. Jesus was not teaching new things but rather putting the law in its rightful place because the teachers of the law had perverted it. Jesus taught the 10 commandments also.

So I judge what we should keep according to what Jesus taught. And what He taught was in line with the law and the prophets.

I have often thought of that, namely people say I have never met a Christian that keeps all of them, my question is this, how would you know if you did meet one?

Jesus was sinless Yet people did not see Him as such, and even accused Him of sin.

How would you judge that? and would that judgment be based on right principles.

Lets say a man walking into your church and began overturning the chairs and yelling about making the church of God a house of robbers.

Would you think ahhh righteous anger or would you assume that man is out of place and is a sinner for doing so?

What if that man walked into your church and said you know not the truth does that make him arrogant? did not Jesus say such things yet He was without sin?

I think we put false ideas out there of what a sinless obedient person would look like and do and say. Just a thought.

 

[RyBread]

Its very simple...all the law is fulfilled in one word...Love Not legalism!

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The Ten Commandments reflect love perfectly. You do not love God and your neighbor if you worship other gods, make idols, abolish the Sabbath, use God's name in vain, steal, lie, murder, commit adultery, covet or dishonor your parents.

"One jot or one titte shall in no wise pass from the law till heaven and earth pass and ALL is fulfilled." That has NOT happened yet. Heaven and earth have NOT passed and ALL is NOT fulfilled till the 2nd coming when the world is rid of sin forever. That happens in Revelations 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[michael56]

sorry I neglected to answer part of your post.

you asked "Does this include all of Jesus teaching as well as the Ten Commandments?"

I see Jesus' teachings from the law itself. I have found nothing in the teachings of Jesus that I could not find in the Old Testament law. Jesus was not teaching new things but rather putting the law in its rightful place because the teachers of the law had perverted it. Jesus taught the 10 commandments also.

So I judge what we should keep according to what Jesus taught. And what He taught was in line with the law and the prophets.

I have often thought of that, namely people say I have never met a Christian that keeps all of them, my question is this, how would you know if you did meet one?

Jesus was sinless Yet people did not see Him as such, and even accused Him of sin.

How would you judge that? and would that judgment be based on right principles.

Lets say a man walking into your church and began overturning the chairs and yelling about making the church of God a house of robbers.

Would you think ahhh righteous anger or would you assume that man is out of place and is a sinner for doing so?

What if that man walked into your church and said you know not the truth does that make him arrogant? did not Jesus say such things yet He was without sin?

I think we put false ideas out there of what a sinless obedient person would look like and do and say. Just a thought.

Every Christian I have ever chatted to has admitted they are not perfect in the flesh
But let me put something to you. In church yesterday the man who spoke said as Christians we would not drink or smoke. The church of my youth would have said the same thing. As a teenager I would sit on the wall outside the church after the service and smoke a cigarette. The looks I received from some of the church goers made me believe I would go to hell for smoking alone, let alone my other imperfections.
Years later I went to a church service where a well known Evangelist preached. After the service a few of us went for private prayer with her. Though she had never met me before she told me much about my life and confirmed I was ''baptised in the Holy Spirit'' and spoke in tongues. Yet I still at that time smoked
I learnt something that day. God does not see us the way many others do who go to church, neither does he lay the demands on us many other Christians do
BTW
I do not write this to defend smoking, it is very bad for your health, simply to make an important point

 

[gotime]

Thank you for the above. I believe the real difference is in appreciating what it means to have the law written on your mind and placed on your heart(you have been born again of the spirit) Jesus told Nicodemus Ye MUST be born again. It is not an option it is pivotal. Once you have been born again of the Spirit you in your heart want to obey God. His laws are within you. The law is no longer an external law written on tablets of stone but one written on tablets of human hearts(2Cor3:3) I know in my heart how God wants me to live and am acutely aware of all my shortcomings before Him. If I do not cling to grace(Christ) I must sink, for the weight of that law is huge. I have nowhere to hide, Christ upped the OT law so to speak. One example. The law said you shall not commit adultery, but I say if you even look at a woman with lust in your eye you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. The law said do not murder, but Christ said if you get angry with someone you will be subject to judgement etc. For me to be told how well I must obey the law each week, being painfully aware of my shortcomings before God would simply crush me.
If I am honest(and I must be) Many seem not to understand what the weight of the law does. It is easier to state in effect 'you must obey the literal law of the ten commandments.' But if people looked intently into what that requires, how many would say they obey 100%? This I believe is the true difference here, ones understanding of what it means to be born again of the Spirit. Hence my question at the begining of the thread

I

lovely but I would differ on one point, you said "Christ upped the OT law so to speak."

Of this I do not agree, I believe the Old Testament Law was the same but the teachers of the law taught a lesser degree of righteousness than the law actually taught.

For example:

Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

Job refused to even look wrongly at a woman notice the words why then should I "think" upon a maid. So Job understood that it was sin to even think wrongly of a woman.

David when he confessed His sin when He committed adultery has some interesting points:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Truth in the Inward parts, so David understood that God want's us to even think rightly. and he fully understood the problem began before the physical act,

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

So David understood the root of His problem was in the heart. and He realized his need for the Holy Spirit to change Him:

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

The notion of anger also has illusions in the old Testament:

Ecc 7:9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Again the issue is in the heart.

The principles Jesus brings are not new, but remember the context of these sayings Jesus is speaking not against the law but against the false Teachers of the law.

That is why He does not say "it is written" while Jesus does mention things that are in the law He is not quoting the law. rather He says "you have heard it said" He is refuting the misapplication of the Law by the teachers of the law.

He is not adding to the law but rather revealing the law as it was intended.

Of the Messiah it is written:

Isa_42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[gotime]

Every Christian I have ever chatted to has admitted they are not perfect in the flesh
But let me put something to you. In church yesterday the man who spoke said as Christians we would not drink or smoke. The church of my youth would have said the same thing. As a teenager I would sit on the wall outside the church after the service and smoke a cigarette. The looks I received from some of the church goers made me believe I would go to hell for smoking alone, let alone my other imperfections.
Years later I went to a church service where a well known Evangelist preached. After the service a few of us went for private prayer with her. Though she had never met me before she told me much about my life and confirmed I was ''baptised in the Holy Spirit'' and spoke in tongues. Yet I still at that time smoked
I learnt something that day. God does not see us the way many others do who go to church, neither does he lay the demands on us many other Christians do
BTW
I do not write this to defend smoking, it is very bad for your health, simply to make an important point

That's the point though is it not, Christ does not lay the demands of the law on us but on himself. let me clarify what I mean by that.

He takes the responsibility of me keeping the law. its not on my, its on Him. But He is able to cause me to keep the law. The only part I play is faith and submission to His Lordship.

I am only held responsible if I do not accept His Grace and promises and His Lordship in my life.

I have learned that my failure to keep God's law came form a few things depending on the time.

1. I tried to keep a law I could never keep myself.
2. I failed to believe the promises of God in Christ.
3. I failed to submit to His Lordship in my life.

Now that I have got past working my way to heaven number 1 is not a problem for me anymore.

As I have studied the word of God my faith in Him has grown in His promises so number 2 is not a problem with me anymore unless I step out of faith.

I have learned to submit to the voice of God in all things and so number 3 is not a problem for me anymore unless I decide to go against Him.

So there is nothing keeping Jesus from preforming His divine promise in my life.

I don't know how to say this without sounding arrogant, but I will try.

Since I understood this I have found such power and Joy in Gods promises. sins I struggled with all my life are Gone.

I had people I did not like and some I hated, but I don't feel that way anymore about anyone. I have found that when temptation comes I never have to give into it ever.

Weather I am tired or not, stressed of not, Jesus keeps me. I do not claim to be perfect but I do believe the more I trust Jesus the closer I will get.

See its not simply about being a law keeper, that is just the result of coming closer to Jesus. And that is my goal to be close to Jesus, Keeping the law is just a natural result of being close to Jesus.

I don't know how to explain this, I don't really know how He does it, but He promised I put my faith in that and He is delivering on His promise.

The very way we think changes. I do make mistakes but I have learned that it always happens without exception when I lose sight of Jesus, or lack faith for some reason. but I have also learned that when My faith is firmly planted on Jesus I can not fall.

See I have no problem believing that Jesus can keep us from sin because I have experienced it. what I am learning now is how to keep my faith firmly planted on Jesus every moment. and I ask Jesus to teach me from His word how to do that and He is. And I am seeing the difference. and He is growing me day by day.

I am fully persuaded that God can do all that He has promised. I do not boast about this and do not like to talk about it, in type because I hate the Idea of it coming across as me.

Its not me, I simply died with Christ on the cross, my old nature has no power, through the Holy Spirit He has changed me and it is all to His Glory.

I know He will finish the work He has begun. praise His name.

 

[gotime]

However I will boast in Jesus and Him crucified because without Him all I just said would be gone. and I would be back to my sins and be lost.

 

[RyBread]

Well said gotime. Amen to that.

 

[Mitspa]

However I will boast in Jesus and Him crucified because without Him all I just said would be gone. and I would be back to my sins and be lost.

Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Mitspa]

So you will not say you believe the words of Christ which I highlighted, nor will you even address them as I asked you too. Yet you accuse me of being the one who does not believe scripture. Why do you suppose you cannot or will not address Christ's words? Love is the fulfillment of the law, the scriptures say so. Are you saying that the scriptures that say so, mean the words of Christ above are no longer true? Or will you and do you ignore all such words of scripture because you must, in order to believe as you do?

I already told you...all the law is fulfilled in one word...love not legalism.... We serve God by the Spirit and not the "letter" legalism!

 

[michael56]

lovely but I would differ on one point, you said "Christ upped the OT law so to speak."

Of this I do not agree, I believe the Old Testament Law was the same but the teachers of the law taught a lesser degree of righteousness than the law actually taught.

For example:

Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

Job refused to even look wrongly at a woman notice the words why then should I "think" upon a maid. So Job understood that it was sin to even think wrongly of a woman.

David when he confessed His sin when He committed adultery has some interesting points:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Truth in the Inward parts, so David understood that God want's us to even think rightly. and he fully understood the problem began before the physical act,

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

So David understood the root of His problem was in the heart. and He realized his need for the Holy Spirit to change Him:

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

The notion of anger also has illusions in the old Testament:

Ecc 7:9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Again the issue is in the heart.

The principles Jesus brings are not new, but remember the context of these sayings Jesus is speaking not against the law but against the false Teachers of the law.

That is why He does not say "it is written" while Jesus does mention things that are in the law He is not quoting the law. rather He says "you have heard it said" He is refuting the misapplication of the Law by the teachers of the law.

He is not adding to the law but rather revealing the law as it was intended.

Of the Messiah it is written:

Isa_42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Would you believe the literal words of the OT law(which is what the Jews actually had) was no easier to obey than Christ's teaching in the Beatitudes?

 

[Mitspa]

The Ten Commandments reflect love perfectly. You do not love God and your neighbor if you worship other gods, make idols, abolish the Sabbath, use God's name in vain, steal, lie, murder, commit adultery, covet or dishonor your parents.

"One jot or one titte shall in no wise pass from the law till heaven and earth pass and ALL is fulfilled." That has NOT happened yet. Heaven and earth have NOT passed and ALL is NOT fulfilled till the 2nd coming when the world is rid of sin forever. That happens in Revelations 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

No Jesus Christ reflects love perfectly ...letters on a stone reflect death and condemnation.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnationglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Have some of you even read the New Testament?

 

[michael56]

No Jesus Christ reflects love perfectly ...letters on a stone reflect death and condemnation.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnationglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Have some of you even read the New Testament?

And many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say ''The old is better'' Luke 5:39

 

[Word_Swordsman]

You are a liar. I do believe the bible, and I do believe the verse you quoted. I just don't believe that it means we should no longer keep God's commandments as you do. I have been delivered from the condemnation of the law in Christ. He has not delivered me so I can and will continue breaking the law, but to the contrary, that I might follow His example and keep it as He did. Tell me sir, do you believe the following words of Jesus Christ?

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Do you believe the above words of the Lord Jesus Christ or not? Please do answer this question and do not ignore it. Do you believe it? What do you say the highlighted and embolden words mean?

It appears you interpret that verse out of context, thinking the Sermon on the Mount was Jesus teaching the law of Moses. Jesus sayings have never been labelled Jesus' 'Suggestions on the Mount'.

Not so. A big issue those days was the belief of Pharisees and significant others that Jesus was dissing Moses. Jesus was teaching concerning the Kingdom of Heaven, which came long after Moses died, when John began baptizing.

His sermon was about some of his many new commandments, mostly around the concept of loving neighbor, but raising the bar higher than Moses knew about. Disciples are commanded to keep Jesus' laws, which are easy, well adapted to be written on our heart, making his law spiritual unto life, not death.

Keep in mind Jesus never commanded anyone to worship on the Sabbath, but being a Jew was required to do that, though sticking only to the actual rules of the Mosaic obervance, not those added by scribes and Pharisees.

An example was his comparing the Old Covenant's take on murder to the New Covenant standard.
Matthew 5:21-22 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Heb Raca means "O empty worthless one, useless!". Fool means fool, which Moses wrote nothing about, yet calling someone that has great danger far beyond having it added to a list of sins to be judged over.

Verse 22 contains a few of those least commandments among many in this chapter from Jesus.

 

[Hizikyah]

Totally in context, for He says:

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

SO is it only "that" Law when one can find a way to do away with it, but in the next verse it's not "that" Law. He literally says, "he smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law" Could it be any clearer?

Luke records it:

Luke 16:16-17, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

I I believe the "raca" thing is about intent from one's heart....