Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[Mitspa]

I have been an SDA for thirty some odd years now. They both said I believe things I do not believe, and that I do not believe things that I do believe. They are lying. I don't think they are, I know they are.

Well I guess you have had thirty years of false doctrine to overcome....but all things are possible if you will only believe the bible

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

[gotime]

I must say that I think the issue on here is that because we are not talking face to face we can often focus on one thing and thus give a false impression of our view.

I think of my posts and I often argue from one position, I am realizing that people are getting the wrong Idea.

 

[gotime]

I have just noticed a whole in my approach here.

Praise God, I have been upholding the law from Scripture. That in itself is fine but I have not thought about my audience.

Let me share my thinking.

I am sharing to keep the law with people who's only experience is failure and hurt and heartbreak from when they have tired. So me telling them they must keep it is not helping.

Instead Rather I should be pointing to how it is kept by faith in Jesus. which I have en-devoured to do now and then but not often enough.

Praise the Lord.

I apologize then also to those who I may have made feel bad.

Much love to you all.

 

[keeth]

Lets see?

William Miller (1782-1849) developed millennialist convictions, convinced that Jesus' second (and invisible) return would be in 1843. That was revised to 1844. They kept their hopes going beyond that date due to interpreting the parable of the wise and foolish virgins a certain way ('the bridegroom tarried'). It was a small minority amongst Miller's following who formed the group that was to become the SDA Church. They maintained that the prophecy had, indeed, been fulfilled in 1843 as initially calculated. They said the 'investigative judement' began then and that the second coming would occur at the completion of the judgement - a date not indicated in Scripture. Due to ridicule they experienced from fellow Christians in their old denominations, they began to regard Protestantism as part of Babylon the Great, and the call to come out of Babylon added a new dimension to their missionary proclamation.

Already, those who know JW doctrine will see crucial similarities in belief here. By the time Charles Russell started his Bible study groups, there were already three main types of millennialism in evidence; postmillennialism, futurist premillennialism based on dispensationalism, and historicist premillennialism (as with the Adventists). Russell first heard Second Adventist preaching at a meeting in 1870 via Jonas Wendell. There were many variations expounded by then, so Russell can hardly be credited with coming up with anything new! What he did was to modify existing beliefs and interpretations of prophecy. Russell acknowledged his indebtedness to J.A. Bengal, and especially to William Miller (Thy Kingdom Come p84 & 86). Russell's first volume of Studies in the Scriptures is a reworking of a modified dispensationalism expounded by Russell's early associate, Nelson H. Barbour, a former associate of Miller, in his book, Three Worlds and the Harvest of This World. Although that book was written entirely by Barbour, its title page bears Russell's name as co-author.

As usual you have supplied no source. Anybody can say anything about anybody else, it doesn't ever make it true. The above is the typical mix of some truth with the twisted views of the writers added in. SDA's consider themselves to be Protestants. Our denomination has believed that many other Protestant denominations have been forsaking the truth and heading back to Rome. As time goes by our convictions have been increasingly proved true. More and more once Protestant denominations are once again joining hands with Rome. The Investigative Judgment is not a false doctrine, God will judge and deliver His people.

Ps 50:3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. 4 He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.



Ps 135:13 Thy name, O LORD, endureth for ever; and thy memorial, O LORD, throughout all generations. 14 For the LORD will judge his people, and he will repent himself concerning his servants.

Deut 32:1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. 2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: 3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Ps: 9:7 But the LORD shall endure for ever: he hath prepared his throne for judgment.
8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. 9 The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, a refuge in times of trouble. 10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. 29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Ps 119:148 Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
149 Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O LORD, quicken me according to thy judgment.

Eccl 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Eccl 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Isa 30:18 And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.

Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

IKing 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? 28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day: 29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place. 30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive. 31 If any man trespass against his neighbour, and an oath be laid upon him to cause him to swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house: 32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.

Ps 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me. 9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins. 10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart. 11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Ps 26:1 Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the LORD; therefore I shall not slide. 2 Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart. 3 For thy lovingkindness is before mine eyes: and I have walked in thy truth.

Ps 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. 11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.
12 Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice 13 Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Isa 3:13 The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people. 14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.

Isa 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. 11 As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool. 12 A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary. 13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

Jer 11:20 But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I revealed my cause.

Jer 20:12 But, O LORD of hosts, that triest the righteous, and seest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I opened my cause.

Ezek 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

1 Cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

2 Tim 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

 

[michael56]

I must say that I think the issue on here is that because we are not talking face to face we can often focus on one thing and thus give a false impression of our view.

I think of my posts and I often argue from one position, I am realizing that people are getting the wrong Idea.

Thanks for your post, and the manner in which you wrote it. Obviously I agree, the need for grace and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. But you say you tell your congregation the law MUST be kept 100% I must repeat. Which law? Does this include all of Jesus teaching as well as the Ten Commandments? You see, I have never met any Christian who obeys all of them, from any denomination. If you say the law MUST be kept 100%(and I am simply being honest) I could not be a member of your church. For in my heart and mind I know I cannot obey/do not the law 100% That would put me back in the state I was in as a teenager. For by the way you worded your statement the law MUST BE KEPT 100% Do you not see what I am saying here? Basically if I joined your church I would believe my right standing before God IN EFFECT meant perfect obedience to the law.
Paul says Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness. That is not possible if the Christian MUST obey the law 100% For then they are at least in part dependant on observing the law for right standing before God. Paul says if you believe that faith can mean nothing to you, therefore you are cut off from grace for grace comes through faith.

The church I go to now, the minister preached this morning on faith. He quoted Rom 10:4. He said, no matter how much you try and obey the law you cannot meet the standard set under it. You cannot perfectly obey it. I fully agree with him. So he would not preach you must obey the law 100% for he knows what the inference then must be.

 

[keeth]

Romans 7:14 (KJV) [SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

That should be taken in context at least within that verse. Paul was naturally carnal before Christ, bound to sin by the law. He was of the flesh without Christ in him

The word translated "spiritual" is from Greek "pneunmatikos" whci means generally "non-carnal" as well as "spiritual", which
is used in several rendering of English "spiritual", like in 1 Corinthians 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

The people Paul was teaching were believers already, though not yet able to discern the meat of spiritual words, still on "baby food".

You have revealed nothing to the contrary to what the scriptures say. The law is spiritual. In the verse under question it is contrasted with that which is carnal, as being in contrast that which is spiritual.

 

[keeth]

I just read that. Jesus' work of propitiation is to them yet to be completed, after he reviews all the confessed and unconfessed sins now said to be stored up in heaven, defiling it!

Here we are, share it.

 

[keeth]

If you look back at the roots of these groups and the core errors of their doctrine, you will see the same errors are in these groups...the JW...SDA..and the LDS

Along with the idea that some prophet or group of prophets have to tell them what the bible really says....

More big words with no proof. Prove it please. What are the errors we share in common?

 

[keeth]

1 John 4:20-21 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

I hate none here or anywhere, but love all because Jesus first loved me.

I understand why you decided to do that. As I explained, it takes a little study to explore the depths of the word beyond what is printed. Repent or not, I forgive you.

Romans 7:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
The law ministers death, while Jesus ministers life. The law ministered to flesh (which dies twice) by being non-carnal, against/opposed to the flesh. Newness of spirit in Christ is truly of the God kind of spiritual, not merely religion.

Who are you talking too?

 

[Mitspa]

More big words with no proof. Prove it please. What are the errors we share in common?

I already did...did you read the post?

 

[Hizikyah]

I have just noticed a whole in my approach here.

Praise God, I have been upholding the law from Scripture. That in itself is fine but I have not thought about my audience.

Let me share my thinking.

I am sharing to keep the law with people who's only experience is failure and hurt and heartbreak from when they have tired. So me telling them they must keep it is not helping.

Instead Rather I should be pointing to how it is kept by faith in Jesus. which I have en-devoured to do now and then but not often enough.

Praise the Lord.

I apologize then also to those who I may have made feel bad.

Much love to you all.

Focusing on Him is the only way! ( I too foget to speak on this as the backlash from even whispering the word "obedience" stirs up soo much.....


John (Yahchanan) 15:4-6, "Abide in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

 

[keeth]

Most Christian discussion sites still have promoters of those organizations starting topics that are known as "Christian Bait", like a fisherman dangles a minnow. Evolutionists do that often. Some Muslims like to do that too, especially focusing on the trinity.

Years back I owned a large Yahoo Groups site for 6 years that collapsed before I learned that, so many members worn completely out engaging in "warfare" 24 hours a day, losing much sleep, while the promoters work in shifts 24 hours a day. I ended up with a membership of "victorious" cultists that began turning on themselves like starving Hyenas. The "traffic" on a site is welcome, fruit of one's investment of time and money to make it happen. But getting caught up in endless wrangling over and over, looped threads that scatter the truth in obscurity, can take a toll on physical and mental health. That's why I don't reply to many posts like some do, nor do I start threads, not having a time-committment I own to "own" a discussion.

Now more of us should be more equipped to more quickly identify "Christian Baiting" threads for what they are, and hopefully use wisdom managing your engagement towards having a more normal life doing other things like paint that shed, drive that one needed nail, plus eat more healthy meals using real food you can pull out of the ground, cut from a plant, pick fruit from a bush or tree, or take of an animal. I say that because I spent hundreds of hours emailing departed members, people who confessed the online activity was ruining their health.

Balance. Wisdom, not volume. Confidence instead of continual repetition. Understanding instead of taking up a defense. Teaching instead of arguing. Patience rather than being hasty. Above all love. Teaching truth of Christ is an expression of love for Jesus' words, and neighbor, and God.

In His Royal Name.....

michael56 started this thread.

 

[Mitspa]

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

[michael56]

Most Christian discussion sites still have promoters of those organizations starting topics that are known as "Christian Bait", like a fisherman dangles a minnow. Evolutionists do that often. Some Muslims like to do that too, especially focusing on the trinity.

Years back I owned a large Yahoo Groups site for 6 years that collapsed before I learned that, so many members worn completely out engaging in "warfare" 24 hours a day, losing much sleep, while the promoters work in shifts 24 hours a day. I ended up with a membership of "victorious" cultists that began turning on themselves like starving Hyenas. The "traffic" on a site is welcome, fruit of one's investment of time and money to make it happen. But getting caught up in endless wrangling over and over, looped threads that scatter the truth in obscurity, can take a toll on physical and mental health. That's why I don't reply to many posts like some do, nor do I start threads, not having a time-committment I own to "own" a discussion.

Now more of us should be more equipped to more quickly identify "Christian Baiting" threads for what they are, and hopefully use wisdom managing your engagement towards having a more normal life doing other things like paint that shed, drive that one needed nail, plus eat more healthy meals using real food you can pull out of the ground, cut from a plant, pick fruit from a bush or tree, or take of an animal. I say that because I spent hundreds of hours emailing departed members, people who confessed the online activity was ruining their health.

Balance. Wisdom, not volume. Confidence instead of continual repetition. Understanding instead of taking up a defense. Teaching instead of arguing. Patience rather than being hasty. Above all love. Teaching truth of Christ is an expression of love for Jesus' words, and neighbor, and God.

In His Royal Name.....

If you understood what it means to have the law written on your mind and placed on your heart you would not make the comment of Christian bating threads here. It is actually a most important question. The importance of which some appear to fail to grasp

 

[michael56]

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Absolutely for the pass mark to attain to Heaven under the law is 100% perfect obedience

 

[Mitspa]

Absolutely for the pass mark to attain to Heaven under the law is 100% perfect obedience

Anyone who reads the New Testament can see what is evident...its those satan has blinded by legalism that can in no wise believe.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[keeth]

Well I guess you have had thirty years of false doctrine to overcome....but all things are possible if you will only believe the bible

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

I do believe the bible. Your insinuation that I do not is yet another lie. You keep quoting verses to me that you suppose I have a problem with, but I have no problem with them or the word of God. The above scripture is absolute truth which I believe. Though you continually lie and say or insinuate that I do not believe it. That is on you though, not me.

 

[Mitspa]

I do believe the bible. Your insinuation that I do not is yet another lie. You keep quoting verses to me that you suppose I have a problem with, but I have no problem with them or the word of God. The above scripture is absolute truth which I believe. Though you continually lie and say or insinuate that I do not believe it. That is on you though, not me.

you don't believe the bible...you don't believe what it clearly says!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[keeth]

I already did...did you read the post?

I read a quote you posted with no source information saying basically what you said with no detail backing it up. It was nothing more than someone saying what you say with a few dates and history thrown in. Is this your proof? What then, can I counter with a quote from someone else with no source to the contrary, and then that will be truth?

 

[Mitspa]

I read a quote you posted with no source information saying basically what you said with no detail backing it up. It was nothing more than someone saying what you say with a few dates and history thrown in. Is this your proof? What then, can I counter with a quote from someone else with no source to the contrary, and then that will be truth?

well its true and if its not? prove it!