my last argument for obedience

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Sep 4, 2012
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#41
Amen..Unfortunately it's this type of false accusations that cause division and spread malice amongst the brethren. This kind of false accusations needs to stop so that we can have a safe environment to grow in the grace of Christ. We can agree to disagree without the accusations and have respect for each other.
Alright then, let's put this to rest. Do you believe that a Christian can live a life of unrepentant sin and still be saved?

If you don't answer this question clearly and simply, then you are just a false accuser trying to stir up trouble.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#42
Ok..I will fall for your "baiting" this time because you have been told a number of times from different people what is believed but maybe this will help others so I will answer.

I believe a Christian can live by the flesh and still go to heaven because salvation is not based on what we do but what Christ has done by grace. 1 Corinthians is a perfect example of this. I will post this after this one.

If salvation is based on what we have to do in order to be saved then it is not based on the finished work of Christ.

Sin will affect how we live here on this earth and will determine rewards in heaven but when we are saved by grace through faith in what Christ has done - we are sealed in Him forever.

Sin is stupid and destructive to our lives as well to those whom we love and it will distort our view and perception of God and it will destroy our witness of our Lord Jesus Christ and His love.

Sin can no more separate us from Christ then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation. We can no more un-born ourselves from Christ then we can by an act of our will "un-born" ourselves from being a human.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Preaching and teaching on the grace of Christ will instruct us to live godly and upright lives in this present world which is why we need to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus our Lord.

Thank you for the opportunity again to preach the wonderful riches of God's grace and love for us through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have a great salvation in our Lord so let's honor what He has done for us!
 
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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#43
I have over the past few days or so given a lot of scripture, that continues to be "refuted" by the ever popular "gospel of Grace" before you begin scoffing or setting up your rebuttal. Please do consider these scriptures that do in fact support the many others ive annoyed the grace alone crowd with, I say in the sight of Christ, my intention is good. since many peeps wont accept anything before the resurrection as applying to Christians ( wich I find ridiculous) I for 27 minutes focused on the latter parts of the n.t. scriptures, here are some pretty clear ones I hope you will at least consider, not for myself, but simply because they are Gods word.

3 john 1:11 " dear friends, do not imitate what is evil but what is good, anyone who DOES what is good is from God, anyone who does what is evil has not seen God."

2 john 1:6-9 " and this is Love THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. as you have heard from the beginning His command is that you WALK in Love. ( what is Love? pretty clear,)....v8 watch out that you don't LOSE what you have WORKED for, but that you may be rewarded fully. ANYONE WHO RUNS AHEAD AND DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST DOES NOT HAVE GOD...whoever DOES continue in the teaching has both the father and the son."

1john 5:3 " this is LOVE FOR GOD : TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS, and His commands aren't burdensome."

ude 1:4 " for certain men whos condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in amoung you, They are godless men who change the Grace of Our God into a liscence for immorality and deny Jesus Christ Our only soverien Lord"
(see 2nd peter 3:15-16)

2nd peter 3:14 " so then dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, MAKE EVERY EFFORT to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with Him..see through v15, and think why would he connect a statement about making effort in Christ, and then state that pauls letters are hard to understand and are easily distorted, and it leads to destruction.

see also 2 peter 2:3-10 v 5 effort. verse 10 DO these things....

James chapter 2. 1st peter 2:15-16, chapter 1:14-16.....james chapter 1. same stuff....

Hebrews chapter 10 :26-29. trampling underfoot the blood by continuing on in sin do these people deserve punishment it is asked? if they were punished for disobeying the mosaic law, how much more for disobeying the Law bought with the Blood of Christ? actually think apart from the popular grace stuff, just go to Gods word for you, looking for the truth. the truth is what sets us free. more scripture? yeah...its everywhere in the word. colossians 3:5-9...lol I have a lot more but imna let it Go. Ifeel I have made a solid argument that obeying the word of Jesus Christ, is the most important part of Our Life, and also that there is work in Christ. I also Know the scriptures about faith and Grace, but this is the purpose of all of that, to obey the word of Jesus...that is to walk in the truth. God bless you, righteous is who we are in Jesus, that's why repentance and action are essential. Grace is what made us able, all by Grace that made us new.......but were new for a purpose is the thing. I wont argue this any further, I think if someone seriously is opposed, Ive left a good measure of evidence you need to explain away. all wisdom and truth Belong to God, wisdom is His. it is Jesus Christ.

What saith the Apostle Paul on the matter? Why don't you give Scripture from his thirteen epistles stating it's necessary to have good works for salvation?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#44
The Corinthian church was full of divisions, strife, men going to the temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, getting drunk at Communion, some were eating all the food up before the others could come to their "love feasts" as they called their gatherings back then.

What did Paul do? Paul told them who they were in Christ..then corrected their behavior..he didn't say you were all unsaved now....he told them who they were in Christ..saints..they have His righteousness, holiness..etc.

Know you not that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit now?..and many other corrections about who they really were now that they are in Christ.


1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#45
I believe a Christian can live by the flesh and still go to heaven because salvation is not based on what we do but what Christ has done by grace. 1 Corinthians is a perfect example of this. I will post this after this one.


Then by your own 'mouth' I am absolved of the false accusation that I misrepresented your belief. If you keep falsely accusing me of misrepresenting what you believe on this issue, then I am going to direct the mods to this exchange so that they can see for themselves that you are not dealing honestly and forthrightly, and are simply trying to stir up the brethren against me by calling me a false accuser.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#46
The Corinthian church was full of divisions, strife, men going to the temple prostitutes for sex, they were taking each other to court, getting drunk at Communion, some were eating all the food up before the others could come to their "love feasts" as they called their gatherings back then.

What did Paul do? Paul told them who they were in Christ..then corrected their behavior..he didn't say you were all unsaved now....he told them who they were in Christ..saints..they have His righteousness, holiness..etc.

Know you not that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit now?..and many other corrections about who they really were now that they are in Christ.


1 Corinthians 1:1-9 (NASB)

[SUP]2 [/SUP] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

[SUP]8 [/SUP] who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD
You just pointed to the ongoing argument that the anti-grace crowd(the me, me, me, I, I, I crowd) refuses to acknowledge.
 

FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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#47
Is anybody arguing against obedience?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#48
until you post where someone says- quote- we do not have to be obedient to be saved- end quote-, then it is putting words in people's mouths, falsely accusing.
You owe me an apology.

I believe a Christian can live by the flesh and still go to heaven because salvation is not based on what we do but what Christ has done by grace. 1 Corinthians is a perfect example of this. I will post this after this one.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#51
Hebrews 10:23-24 (NASB)

[SUP]23 [/SUP] Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

[SUP]24 [/SUP] and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds
,
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#52
For a saved man? Doing that which God has outlined in Scripture for the Church, the body of Christ with the Judgment Seat of Christ in mind.

For a lost man? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved from the Great White Throne Judgment to come.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#54
Originally Posted by gb9

until you post where someone says- quote- we do not have to be obedient to be saved- end quote-, then it is putting words in people's mouths, falsely accusing.


Originally Posted by gb9

ah, here we have our version of bigfoot, the " lawless grace believers " that some on here claim to see, but THERE IS NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE of them.
seriously dude, before you say anything else about obedience, you should do so by stop tossing around false accusations.

This was the false accusation...that believers in grace are promoting "lawlessness" which is not true..that's the issue not whether someone has eternal security in Christ. This is different from promoting people live in sin as is being falsely accused.

We say that we have to be obedient to the faith and believe in Christ for salvation so we do believe in being obedient to Christ for being saved.

Where are we saying to go out and sin all you want? This is the issue.

gb9 owes no apology because what he says still is true.

 
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FreeNChrist

Senior Member
Aug 24, 2015
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#55
Here ya go, I'm sure there is nothing you could possibly disagree with.......:rolleyes:

The New Covenant concept of obedience is not law-based obedience that focuses on keeping rules and regulations, as the old covenant concept did. The Greek word for "obedience" is hupakouo, which means "to listen under.” As New Covenant Christians we are privileged to "listen under" the indwelling Lord Jesus Himself, in order to follow Him as He leads us from within.


Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice". We actually can perceive His direction, and we actually can then respond in the "obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5; 16:26) that says, "Yes, Lord,” as we continue to be receptive to His activity.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#56
Strong's Concordance
hupakoé: obedience
Original Word: ὑπακοή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hupakoé
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ak-o-ay')
Short Definition: obedience
Definition: obedience, submissiveness, compliance.

HELPS Word-studies
5218 hypakoḗ (from191 /akoúō, "to hear" and 5259 /hypó, "beneath") – i.e. obedience – literally, "submission to what is heard" (WS, 695), i.e. obedience as the response to someone speaking. This refers both to an earthly voice and the Lord's voice (see 2 Cor 10:5; 1 Pet 1:2).
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#57
Romans 10:13-17 (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Obeying the gospel of Christ is equated to believing it. That's our obedience for salvation.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#58
This was the false accusation...that believers in grace are promoting "lawlessness" which is not true..that's the issue not whether someone has eternal security in Christ. This is different from promoting people live in sin as is being falsely accused.

Where are we saying to go out and sin all you want? This is the issue.

gb9 owes no apology because what he says still is true.

This is what he owes me an apology for:

until you post where someone says- quote- we do not have to be obedient to be saved- end quote-, then it is putting words in people's mouths, falsely accusing.
Calling what you believe lawless grace is not a false accusation. It is my descriptive terminology that encapsulates my opinion about what you believe. I have to call it something. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. IF you don't agree with my opinion, you are free to refute it. Calling it a false accusation is just trying to stir up trouble and stifle the exchange and discussion of ideas.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#60
Here is what the falsely accused "lawless grace believers" believe for being obedient to the gospel of the grace of Christ is.

Believing in Christ's finished work is being obedient to the faith.

From the life of Christ in us now we continue on it being obedient to follow the Holy Spirit in us as Christ's life is manifested in us as we get our minds renewed to the revelation of Christ in us.

First Christ's obedience comes first.

Romans 5:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 16:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 6:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
 
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