my last argument for obedience

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Nov 22, 2015
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Time for this cat to go lay down. Thanks for the discussion and hopefully we have put to bed this idea that believers in the grace of Christ DO NOT obey Christ - because we do and we love our Lord passionately and our desire is to know Him and the Father and to walk out what He has for us in this life so that we can bring glory to Him alone.

Everyone play nice with each other. We are allowed to agree to disagree and still have respect for each other. God bless you all!
 
Sep 30, 2014
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Well I'm not going to get down on Jason though, and tell him he's not saved or bla, blah bla... I still love him as I know Jesus loves him more. Even if our understanding aren't matching up just yet, I'd never question his salvation or try to be ugly. This is still a brother to me, who's learning as we all our, none of us have it completely right (including interpretation of all of revelation) not one has told me who the anti-christ will be. The basic are understood, and sometimes it might take a while to get it. Again, I still love this guy.
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
So you agree with all 9 points?
For the most part and I would think that most here would as well. I will add this tho. Any good works that we do are not the cause of our salvation but the result of it. It's all about Jesus and what He did for us. Left to our own efforts, we would surely fail.
 
J

JustWhoIAm

Guest


The source of obedience in the New Covenant is from an exchanged life because we are new creations now in Christ and as we renew our minds to the truth and life that is in Jesus only - we walk out that life outwardly that reflects who we really are in Christ. We are created in righteousness and holiness in our inner man that is in Christ.

The fruit of His life in us flows through and in us to walk in love and obedience to a hurt and dying world and also to our brethren. It is not a matter of obeying rules - it's a matter of His life being expressed from us.




You spoke true. This is exactly what we should be teaching. This sums everything up nicely. Thank you.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
What do you mean Jason, can you explain with scripture... I do agree their has to be a change of heart.

sure I can offer a lot of scripture, if youll accept Jesus words, would be very glad to do that for you.

the first issue, is forgiveness. the gog believes forgiveness is non conditional. Jesus teaches clearly to His folloowers

first we have Jesus prayer example....Matthew 6:9-15.....v 12 "forgive us our debts as we foirgive our debtors...oparticularly clear and not really able to not interpret it correctly v14-15 " for if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive your sins. BUT if you do not forgive men their sins, your heavenly father WILL NOT forgive your sins."

also the parable of the unforgiving debtor. matthew 18 :21-35. we know its about forgiveness by the question asked of Jesus. then he ANSWERS THIS PARAble. its long but clear so ill just Give you an idea of what it says and you can look at it yourself. a man owes a debt to great for him to pay, he is condemned because he cant pay the debt. he begs for mercy, the master grants forgiveness of His huge unpayable debt. the man goes out in joy and runs into a person who owes him a little bit and cant pay. the man who was forgiven, has no mercy for the other who asks for mercy. instead, he has him thrown into jail....the master hears what the man did after he forgave him his great debt, and the master is enraged ( because it is unjust to receive mervy and not give mercy),,,,,the master calls the man into his chambers who was forgiven in the start of tha parable. Now the master puts him in prison to be tortured....the final verse makes it clear v35 " This is how my Father will treat all of you unless you forgive your brother from the heart."

there are more if you wish, ill get some to you. but these two alone make it clear that we are forgiven what we couldn't pay, gods grace. we are so joyful now, BUT we are now obligated to forgive others or else.....well ill let everyone else decide that I have my own belief of what Jesus said here, and don't accept I'm mis interpreting it lol. especially with the other same teachings......

my point is, when we look at Jesus Gospel, we find the obligation we have to grace. Grace is not free, it was free for us to receive, but Jesus, paid beyond our conception, suffering, indignity, shame, death beating, he was spit on mocked, rejected...treated like a terrible criminal and made a public spectacle of...why??? to offer Grace to you and I. this is my OBLIGATION to Jesus. he gave me the most expenxive "free gift" that could ever be given. and he makes a point before the cross to say Obey my commands in john 14-15 3 separate times. and then after the cross, his la=st instruction is go teach all nations to obey EVERYTHING I have commanded you."

so the pre cross- post cross idea, is eliminated. its still obedience to Jesus commands or Teachings. every woprd Jesus spoke and taught is GODS only doctrine. people read paul, and ignore James if we read paul and add james, then we understand what faith is.

forgiveness is only one thing that is based upon our behavior not according to Law ( wich is what galatians is about, judaizers had come and tried to make them obey the jewish customs in order to be a Christian.) it had nothing to do with obedience to Christ. galatians is about trying to impose mans laws on Christ. Christ Jesus is our gospel, His 4 gospels are the Christian Life.

if you would like to discuss more, or add some thoughts id be honored God bless
 
J

jasonj

Guest
Amen..that is true...but the real issue is - he is contending "if you don't interpret Jesus's words exactly like I do - you are NOT obeying Christ". That is what people are being opposed to...not obedience. I have written at least 7 posts here in this thread saying we are to be obedient to Christ and I have seen a few others say the exact same thing.... so this "straw-man" about people that trust in the grace of Jesus' work on the cross are not obeying Jesus is bogus. That is the real issue.

nope fallacy and a lie. ive said repeatedly you go learn the gospels and then look at grace. that's what ive said all along. that is not an interpretation of mine. its saying YOU go search the real gospel and compare it to the g.o.g. AS IT IS TAUGHT. there really is no gospel of Grace, the gospel came with grace and truth, but the gospel is Jesus Christ. the gog, disagrees with anything he says that doesn't agree with it. if a person needs to choose whos words to believe, make it Jesus. but my point for at least the 10th time. you look in your bible, each day 2 chapters and tell me in a month how the gospel looks to you. that has zero to do with my interpretation, its more about you stepping into the light of Christ
 
J

JustWhoIAm

Guest
not one has told me who the anti-christ will be
That ball of wax right there is not suited for this forum. It belongs in the conspiracy forum imho because of the way all of the lies surrounding those events are layered and expressed in action under the table on a global scale...
 
J

jasonj

Guest
You spoke true. This is exactly what we should be teaching. This sums everything up nicely. Thank you.

its a matter of learning and following Jesus, if you guys want to call that works of Law lol go for it, its actually known as "the gospel"
 
J

jasonj

Guest
That ball of wax right there is not suited for this forum. It belongs in the conspiracy forum imho because of the way all of the lies surrounding those events are layered and expressed in action under the table on a global scale...

lol truth indeed
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
nope fallacy and a lie. ive said repeatedly you go learn the gospels and then look at grace. that's what ive said all along. that is not an interpretation of mine. its saying YOU go search the real gospel and compare it to the g.o.g. AS IT IS TAUGHT. there really is no gospel of Grace, the gospel came with grace and truth, but the gospel is Jesus Christ. the gog, disagrees with anything he says that doesn't agree with it. if a person needs to choose whos words to believe, make it Jesus. but my point for at least the 10th time. you look in your bible, each day 2 chapters and tell me in a month how the gospel looks to you. that has zero to do with my interpretation, its more about you stepping into the light of Christ
The thief on the cross would disagree with you.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
Without grace there is no salvation. [TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD] Eph 2:8
[/TD]
[TD]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
To say one must forgive or be obedient to earn salvation is a lie and shows a sad lack of faith in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. We can never, ever be "good enough" or obedient enough to merit salvation, it is a free gift from God.
 
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
sure I can offer a lot of scripture, if youll accept Jesus words, would be very glad to do that for you.

the first issue, is forgiveness. the gog believes forgiveness is non conditional. Jesus teaches clearly to His folloowers

first we have Jesus prayer example....Matthew 6:9-15.....v 12 "forgive us our debts as we foirgive our debtors...oparticularly clear and not really able to not interpret it correctly v14-15 " for if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly father will also forgive your sins. BUT if you do not forgive men their sins, your heavenly father WILL NOT forgive your sins."

also the parable of the unforgiving debtor. matthew 18 :21-35. we know its about forgiveness by the question asked of Jesus. then he ANSWERS THIS PARAble. its long but clear so ill just Give you an idea of what it says and you can look at it yourself. a man owes a debt to great for him to pay, he is condemned because he cant pay the debt. he begs for mercy, the master grants forgiveness of His huge unpayable debt. the man goes out in joy and runs into a person who owes him a little bit and cant pay. the man who was forgiven, has no mercy for the other who asks for mercy. instead, he has him thrown into jail....the master hears what the man did after he forgave him his great debt, and the master is enraged ( because it is unjust to receive mervy and not give mercy),,,,,the master calls the man into his chambers who was forgiven in the start of tha parable. Now the master puts him in prison to be tortured....the final verse makes it clear v35 " This is how my Father will treat all of you unless you forgive your brother from the heart."

there are more if you wish, ill get some to you. but these two alone make it clear that we are forgiven what we couldn't pay, gods grace. we are so joyful now, BUT we are now obligated to forgive others or else.....well ill let everyone else decide that I have my own belief of what Jesus said here, and don't accept I'm mis interpreting it lol. especially with the other same teachings......

my point is, when we look at Jesus Gospel, we find the obligation we have to grace. Grace is not free, it was free for us to receive, but Jesus, paid beyond our conception, suffering, indignity, shame, death beating, he was spit on mocked, rejected...treated like a terrible criminal and made a public spectacle of...why??? to offer Grace to you and I. this is my OBLIGATION to Jesus. he gave me the most expenxive "free gift" that could ever be given. and he makes a point before the cross to say Obey my commands in john 14-15 3 separate times. and then after the cross, his la=st instruction is go teach all nations to obey EVERYTHING I have commanded you."

so the pre cross- post cross idea, is eliminated. its still obedience to Jesus commands or Teachings. every woprd Jesus spoke and taught is GODS only doctrine. people read paul, and ignore James if we read paul and add james, then we understand what faith is.

forgiveness is only one thing that is based upon our behavior not according to Law ( wich is what galatians is about, judaizers had come and tried to make them obey the jewish customs in order to be a Christian.) it had nothing to do with obedience to Christ. galatians is about trying to impose mans laws on Christ. Christ Jesus is our gospel, His 4 gospels are the Christian Life.

if you would like to discuss more, or add some thoughts id be honored God bless
Yes Jason I know this story, what about the condition of the heart there, the master forgave his servant mercifully, the servant went on to show no mercy or pity. His heart was not like that of his masters. How do we know what made that servant that way, that he doesn't have any mercy on his fellow man. Did he get bullied or hurt as a child, or what? His heart was in the wrong place, only caring for himself and what the master had done for him. Does this mean now that he did that to his friend or other servant, do you think God would throw him away? Does he not get grace to understand what's right, and to have a change of heart that next time, he'd have mercy on his brother?
 
J

jasonj

Guest
Oh my... getting straightforward on the thread. I ask is the thread "obedience to mean in order to get the righteousness of God? to be saved? or obedience because we already have the righteousness of God and we're saved?

Thanks
because we were crucified and resurrected through faith and clothed with the righteousness of Christ.....we obey as if we were resurrected and received the righteousness of Christ. we obey in response to Jesus suffering, he owns us, He is the only King God has anointed under Heaven, he himself says you have 1 teacher, the Christ.......and because that's what He repeatedly says to obey what he says. we obey because what He did is true and there is no other proper response to his suffering, than to honor His words wich say " obey my teachings"

My issue is the doctrines these guys cling to are not the gospel of Jesus. His gospel is obey my word, thiers is believe I'm saved and don't ever make effort or I'm "working for salvation" they keep saying that they are saying obey Jesus....but it doesn't matter if you do, cuz were all saved and theres no NEED to serve. that's my issue and why I wont back off of this gog issue. anything that does not agree with Jesus gospel, the only gospel, is not the gospel. according to Jesus. obey my commands, repeatedly through the 4 gospels....

so when they are shown what Jesus said, then comes, everything pre cross doesn't matter anymore, forgiveness is non conditional. again not at all what Jesus taught. and His spirit will always agree with His words. any doctrine that has to eliminate or make less important Jesus teachings is not the gospel.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
Time for this cat to go lay down. Thanks for the discussion and hopefully we have put to bed this idea that believers in the grace of Christ DO NOT obey Christ - because we do and we love our Lord passionately and our desire is to know Him and the Father and to walk out what He has for us in this life so that we can bring glory to Him alone.

Everyone play nice with each other. We are allowed to agree to disagree and still have respect for each other. God bless you all!

rest well sir, God Loves you also, more than any of us will ever fully comprehend
 
J

jasonj

Guest
Without grace there is no salvation. [TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD] Eph 2:8[/TD]
[TD]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
To say one must forgive or be obedient to earn salvation is a lie and shows a sad lack of faith in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. We can never, ever be "good enough" or obedient enough to merit salvation, it is a free gift from God.

ughhhh so basically you deny Jesus words for that scripture then??? because Jesus said clearly.. if you do not forgive men the=ier sins, God will not forgive yours. those are Jesus words over n over. so if your saying its a lie. please consider what your saying. Jesus does not lie
 
J

jasonj

Guest
You spoke true. This is exactly what we should be teaching. This sums everything up nicely. Thank you.

that's the source sure, if its true in us, our actions will be obedient. its all about reflecting Christ, we l;earn of Christ in christs words. that's where the spirit is John 6...I cant remember the verse " my word is spirit and it is life" gotta learn and dwell in and obey His words, the spirit will always confirm Jesus words over any word always. and if were reflecting Christ obedience will be our heart " my food is to do the will of him who sent me" that's the nature of Jesus to obey God. our nature is to obey JESUS.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
I will not argue with you but if you think you can earn salvation then I would say you will be very shocked and I really pray you come to understand God's Word and one day learn to correctly divide it so that you can know the real truth that is Jesus.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
Well I'm not going to get down on Jason though, and tell him he's not saved or bla, blah bla... I still love him as I know Jesus loves him more. Even if our understanding aren't matching up just yet, I'd never question his salvation or try to be ugly. This is still a brother to me, who's learning as we all our, none of us have it completely right (including interpretation of all of revelation) not one has told me who the anti-christ will be. The basic are understood, and sometimes it might take a while to get it. Again, I still love this guy.
there is one who has it all right though.....the one I'm shouting about has everything right. always has and will. Jesus is the way, truth and Life. His words are the words we follow that's why he said it to us. before and aftrer the cross. the things I'm saying are in all 4 gospels. I can only say what I'm saying. go to the 4 gospels and see what Jesus is saying, that's the thing that I can stand on withoiut doubt. Jesus is the gospel, withoiut Him, there is no gospel, without His words, we have nothing