Mystery Babylon

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
N

Not nearly as obvious as we might prefer. Here's an article from 1 1/2 years ago:

Protestants are Returning to Rome

October 17, 2017 by Andy Roman

We are seeing the final act of the drama develop before our eyes. The union of all the churches is an event of the end-times that will happen only one time – unlike wars, earthquakes and famines which are events that repeat themselves throughout history. Protestants are becoming absorbed into the Roman Catholic Church and this significant act on the part of Protestantism will lay the foundation for setting up the image of the beast in America.
“And his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.” Revelation 13:3.
A new poll has come out confirming that Catholics and Protestants have become indistinguishable from each other. Pew Research Center conducted a survey on the eve of the 500 Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation that states that both Protestants and Catholics in Europe and in the U.S. “now overwhelmingly express a willingness to accept each other as neighbors and even as family members.”
According to the new poll, in Protestant Germany, the birthplace of Martin Luther’s Reformation, 78% of Protestants believe that their distinctive faith is more similar and more in common to Roman Catholicism and only 19% of Protestants believe the two faiths are actually “different.” These feelings that Protestants and Catholics have more similarities than differences is also shared by Roman Catholics and Protestants all throughout Europe and even in America. This is what 50 years of ecumenism will do to you; it will bring you back to Rome.
Rome’s agents have used the ecumenical movement to first bring the Protestant Churches to the table, and now after 50 years of “dialog” they have come to view matters in the same light. Protestantism is now converting over to Roman Catholicism and is “wondering after the beast.” All of Europe is going over to Rome and Protestant America is next in the agenda:
“The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience” (Great Controversy, 588).
The image of the beast is forming before our eyes as we see these words being fulfilled. When this prophetic statement was written over 100 years ago, at that time any hopes of reconciliation between Catholics and Protestants seemed impossible to everyone. But look at the situation today – Protestants can’t seem to compromise their faith fast enough! They are running to Rome for reconciliation and are shedding the image of being a “rebellious daughter.” They are returning by and large, collectively, to their “mother church.”
The overwhelming majority today see these previously irreconcilable faiths as identical in almost every way. When Rome looks at the Protestant churches she sees an image of herself. This is scary when you think about it because Rome never changes. The goal of Rome has almost been complete, which is to totally abolish the Reformation’s “protest.” The old, long-standing, historical, Protestant faith with its protest has been an obstacle in preventing Rome from regaining her supremacy in both spiritual and political matters. However, every obstacle that is standing in the way must be removed as Rome achieves her ultimate objective. The Reformation’s protest has been silenced all thanks to the disastrous results of the Vatican-Protestant interfaith dialog and cooperation. May this be a warning sign to every church and to every Christian believer.
“It was by associating with idolaters and joining in their festivities that the Hebrews were led to transgress God’s law and bring His judgments upon the nation. So now it is by leading the followers of Christ to associate with the ungodly and unite in their amusements that Satan is most successful in alluring them into sin. ‘Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean.’ 2 Corinthians 6:17” (Patriarchs and Prophets, 458).

http://adventmessenger.org/protestants-are-returning-to-rome/
I dunno this seems like a non-article to me written by sdas. I dont see that as evidence for anyone that reads their Bible, just some quasi-stats and pictures of people surrounding the pope.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
I dunno this seems like a non-article to me written by sdas. I dont see that as evidence for anyone that reads their Bible, just some quasi-stats and pictures of people surrounding the pope.

At some levels I agree with you, and I'm not nor ever was an SDA. I was avtualy brought up Catholic and y dad is still Catholic. But, there is a lack of visibility of anything that happens incrementally. Everyone is looking for the apocalyptic overnight decision that shocks the world. This is rarely the case. The ecumenical movement it is essentially a RCC movement where they open Evangelistic churches all over the world with no RCC labels, attract protestant congregants, then morph that Ecumenical congregation slowly over to a RCC friendly congregation. That's essentially how they have/are achieving their Un-Reformation efforts.

Have you ever heard people declare that the RCC churches are becoming more evangelistic? Some speaking in tongues, etc, etc?

How about the term "Evangelical Catholic"?

Or how about Lutheran Evangelical Catholicity?

Or Anglican Catholics?

I remember reading the line about "Religious boundaries in the United States used to be that Jews don’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah, Protestants don’t recognize the pope as head of the church, and Baptists don’t recognize one another at the liquor store. This humorous play on sad facts are the essence of Will Herberg’s classic book, Protestant, Catholic, Jew. But with the changing of the religious landscape in the United States, the old map is less useful than it once was. Many Jews now regard Jesus as a great teacher, which is more than some “Christian” theologians seem to be saying these days. Catholics and most mainline Protestants now regard one another as “separated brethren.” And some Baptists even make eye contact when they spy one another buying a bottle of wine." These words were penned in 2007!

Pope Benedict XVI's proclaimed New Evangelization stress the centrality and salvific universality of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the necessity of proclaiming it, in many ways identifying with the evangelical movement. Okay, what does that mean?

Was Pope Benidict's aim to undermine the clarity and focus of the RCC's lust for power and Un-Reformation or was he playing the long game? I'm betting on the latter.

The RCC is not different that the Baptists or Methodists or Assembly of God, or Church of Christ! They all think they are right and eveyone else needs converting, but the RCC is actually wealthy and savy enough to do it!

In know 100's of Protestant believers and I can say without reservation that they are almost universally "Catholic friendly" now. They refer to one another as I wrote above as "separated brethren"! Are they wrong? Not entirely, except that RCC's congregants are intertwined in a pagan religion! But is that so bad? Is not Christ being hailed as King? Are not the Ten Commandments being honored? The true answers to those questions lies at the feet of the Papacy!

My statement about 70% of Protestant churces converting to Catholocism is probably an understatement. If you look at the long game and the incremental progression of the RCC's efforts the "Spirit of Unity" and "Tolerance" of differences has literally won the world over to Satan.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
At some levels I agree with you, and I'm not nor ever was an SDA. I was avtualy brought up Catholic and y dad is still Catholic. But, there is a lack of visibility of anything that happens incrementally. Everyone is looking for the apocalyptic overnight decision that shocks the world. This is rarely the case. The ecumenical movement it is essentially a RCC movement where they open Evangelistic churches all over the world with no RCC labels, attract protestant congregants, then morph that Ecumenical congregation slowly over to a RCC friendly congregation. That's essentially how they have/are achieving their Un-Reformation efforts.

Have you ever heard people declare that the RCC churches are becoming more evangelistic? Some speaking in tongues, etc, etc?

How about the term "Evangelical Catholic"?

Or how about Lutheran Evangelical Catholicity?

Or Anglican Catholics?

I remember reading the line about "Religious boundaries in the United States used to be that Jews don’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah, Protestants don’t recognize the pope as head of the church, and Baptists don’t recognize one another at the liquor store. This humorous play on sad facts are the essence of Will Herberg’s classic book, Protestant, Catholic, Jew. But with the changing of the religious landscape in the United States, the old map is less useful than it once was. Many Jews now regard Jesus as a great teacher, which is more than some “Christian” theologians seem to be saying these days. Catholics and most mainline Protestants now regard one another as “separated brethren.” And some Baptists even make eye contact when they spy one another buying a bottle of wine." These words were penned in 2007!

Pope Benedict XVI's proclaimed New Evangelization stress the centrality and salvific universality of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the necessity of proclaiming it, in many ways identifying with the evangelical movement. Okay, what does that mean?

Was Pope Benidict's aim to undermine the clarity and focus of the RCC's lust for power and Un-Reformation or was he playing the long game? I'm betting on the latter.

The RCC is not different that the Baptists or Methodists or Assembly of God, or Church of Christ! They all think they are right and eveyone else needs converting, but the RCC is actually wealthy and savy enough to do it!

In know 100's of Protestant believers and I can say without reservation that they are almost universally "Catholic friendly" now. They refer to one another as I wrote above as "separated brethren"! Are they wrong? Not entirely, except that RCC's congregants are intertwined in a pagan religion! But is that so bad? Is not Christ being hailed as King? Are not the Ten Commandments being honored? The true answers to those questions lies at the feet of the Papacy!

My statement about 70% of Protestant churces converting to Catholocism is probably an understatement. If you look at the long game and the incremental progression of the RCC's efforts the "Spirit of Unity" and "Tolerance" of differences has literally won the world over to Satan.
Well I dont know about the US but theres still a deep divide between catholic and protestant at least in ireland, that they have to be contained in separate countries.

Anglicans have always been associated with catholics from the beginning when they were an offshoot of catholicism. Its just instead the pope, the king of england was the head of their church. They kept a lot of the catholic trappings, so they werent really protestant as such.

Lutherism is basically non existant in my country.

Most of the christian churches apart from anglican churches here are baptist or presybterian. The catholics have never been friendly with non catholic churches that I know of...they have separate schools and churches, and never see them participate in combined church rallies.

What I do see is catholics combining with other religions like new age spirtualism etc though.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
If there are proto catholic churches without labels, what would those churches be like...would they be non denominational or associated with NAR or something?

I dont think non catholics pay much attention to what the pope says. I mean I dont. He can say anything and it might seem hes evangelical, but, he still claims hes a pope, which negates any message he puts forth anyway.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Well I dont know about the US but theres still a deep divide between catholic and protestant at least in ireland, that they have to be contained in separate countries.

Anglicans have always been associated with catholics from the beginning when they were an offshoot of catholicism. Its just instead the pope, the king of england was the head of their church. They kept a lot of the catholic trappings, so they werent really protestant as such.

Lutherism is basically non existant in my country.

Most of the christian churches apart from anglican churches here are baptist or presybterian. The catholics have never been friendly with non catholic churches that I know of...they have separate schools and churches, and never see them participate in combined church rallies.

What I do see is catholics combining with other religions like new age spirtualism etc though.

Thank You for that glimpse of your countries status. As the Papacy has ever been lustful of power and wealth it makes the US a target of particular importance. There was a time in my life, prior to taking care of aging parents that I was oh so close to trying a move to New Zealand. I had the credentials. I find the fact that your country rarely shows up in the international news a testimony to the benefits of a smaller nation.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
Thank You for that glimpse of your countries status. As the Papacy has ever been lustful of power and wealth it makes the US a target of particular importance. There was a time in my life, prior to taking care of aging parents that I was oh so close to trying a move to New Zealand. I had the credentials. I find the fact that your country rarely shows up in the international news a testimony to the benefits of a smaller nation.
Well, not so fast cos even a small nation like mine gets corrupted by money and power, for immigrants they only want rich people now that have the dosh, and what happens is the rich people immigrate here, buy up all the land, then sell it to make more money. So rich people own the land and put the natives out of work and 'develop' it by ruining it for everyone else. Cos they dont respect the land they just see it as something to be bought and sold. Then our Pm does all these trade deals with bigger countries and we end up exporting all our good food to those countries while people living here have nothing.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
Our previous PM made a lot of money on wall street which was why a lot of people voted him in and kept him in power, cos he was rich, but he didnt make his money in a legit way by honest work, all he did was basically gamble it in investment banking. Basically he didnt do a lot for anyone just his rich cronies.

Signs of fornication with ms babylon. I think so.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
Question is the UN a good entity or is it evil. Does it have anything to do with the beast with seven heads and ten horns. Or is it something else.

All I know is world leaders (kings) all seem to want to gather there and plot their nations futures. Who is in charge of the UN?

I know one of our former prime minsiters has a posting there, you could tell she was ambitious not just for her own country but for power in politics. Cos if she really loved her own country and wanted it to prosper she wouldnt have left, well to me you dont just run off somewhere else that offers a better package deal. You would stick it out during the hard times. Even if you got voted out..or am I just being judgemental here. She even left her husband behind.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
Wazza? So how can you really tell if a protestant church has joined with the rcc? Im just a 'layman' i suppose I don't know that much about church politics it gives me headache trying to figure it out.
Revelation 17:4
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

Here might be three indicators:

1) Does that protestant church bare the colors of purple and scarlet and gold on their doors, their robes, their banners or tapestries?
2) Do the clergy of that protestant church where bishop rings or crowns with gold and/or jewels?
3) Does that protestant church permit or tolerate abominable things (adulterous things) such as unrepentant homosexuality and/or other sexual immorality?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
Another thing is, what about the orthodox, were they under RCC at one time or did they split later, I thought that was around 1000 BC there was a 'great schism' even before the protestant reformation. So how do RCC regard orthodox christians?
As I have indicated before I believe the medieval Roman Catholic church is the 2nd Beast of Revelation.
I have pondered what the prophesy means of the two horns (Rev 13:11) and my current position is that the two horns represent the split of the Catholic Church during the middle ages into the Latin (Roman) or West churches, and the Greek (Orthodox) or East Churches.
 

Frank777

New member
Jul 28, 2018
2
1
3
Revelation 17:4
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

Here might be three indicators:

1) Does that protestant church bare the colors of purple and scarlet and gold on their doors, their robes, their banners or tapestries?
2) Do the clergy of that protestant church where bishop rings or crowns with gold and/or jewels?
3) Does that protestant church permit or tolerate abominable things (adulterous things) such as unrepentant homosexuality and/or other sexual immorality?
The final world religion will be a combination of the RCC, apostate Protestants, and other leading world religions. The Pope is actively involved in this unity effort. If you listen to the Pope's speeches, he talks of "economic justice" for example, a code word for ultimately ushering in socialism/communism.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Am not really sure about the identity of this , some people say its Jerusalem, others say its Rome.

What does the Bible say.
What do you think? Any clues. Is it past, or is it future.

I dont really know what to believe. Certainly its a wealthy city that falls. There are many wealthy cities nowadays, but which one has all the influence of the entire world?

Or is it the UN or some other global organisation.
Babylon the Great is not just Rome, but Vatican City, which sits in Rome, the city of seven hills, which the prostitute of Babylon is seated on. Read this excellent bible study that interprets what all the heads of the beast are, leading up to the final head of the beast, and the who the prostitute of Babylon is, and what the mark of the beast truly is http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/12/0...the-mark-of-the-beast-and-the-meaning-of-666/ .
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
Revelation 17:4
The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

Here might be three indicators:

1) Does that protestant church bare the colors of purple and scarlet and gold on their doors, their robes, their banners or tapestries?
2) Do the clergy of that protestant church where bishop rings or crowns with gold and/or jewels?
3) Does that protestant church permit or tolerate abominable things (adulterous things) such as unrepentant homosexuality and/or other sexual immorality?
Hmm dont know any church that does that that I go to. Church doors are usually heavy but theres no budget for any scarlet and gold lol. As for robes, what robes? Rings or crowns..?!

All the churches are definitely taking a stand against immorality but if there are any that are soft on that it would be because their own clergy or people in their family are homosexuals I guess and they dont want to offend them or put them out. But the churches I go to the people that do that actually leave. They get found out sooner or later and if unrepentent they cant show their faces. Why because children go to church too and they need to be protected.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
Hmm dont know any church that does that that I go to. Church doors are usually heavy but theres no budget for any scarlet and gold lol. As for robes, what robes? Rings or crowns..?!

All the churches are definitely taking a stand against immorality but if there are any that are soft on that it would be because their own clergy or people in their family are homosexuals I guess and they dont want to offend them or put them out. But the churches I go to the people that do that actually leave. They get found out sooner or later and if unrepentent they cant show their faces. Why because children go to church too and they need to be protected.
If you see any church or chapel or sanctuary that looks like this it is cause for concern (Rev 17:4) Rev 17-4.jpg .
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
If you see any church or chapel or sanctuary that looks like this it is cause for concern (Rev 17:4) View attachment 199363 .
Eek so these arent catholics? They look like anglican church...? Or maybe orthodox, but I thought orthodox had split from catholicism way before. How do you really tell anglicans apart from catholics, apart from that the anglicans speak english and its not all in latin. I think they are very similar apart from anglicans dont venerate or worship Mary so much.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
orthodox, anglican, presbyterian, lutheran, methodist...they all seem to be moving back toward the RCC (or have they ever really left?)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
orthodox, anglican, presbyterian, lutheran, methodist...they all seem to be moving back toward the RCC (or have they ever really left?)
What about baptists?

I remember talking to a lady who became a christian by sneaking out of her catholic family church and going to the baptist church down the road. She said that being a catholic she was made to feel guilty all the time for they had many rules and traditions to follow. She didnt know she could ask God for forgiveness theough Jesus, she was taught they all had to confess to a priest.

I have attended a presybterian church but they dont seem to go in for the fancy robes things. The pastor (or reverend) does wear a dog collar sometimes though. I notice in baptist churches they dont. Just normal clothes, and maybe a cross necklace, but nothing fancy.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
What about baptists?

I remember talking to a lady who became a christian by sneaking out of her catholic family church and going to the baptist church down the road. She said that being a catholic she was made to feel guilty all the time for they had many rules and traditions to follow. She didnt know she could ask God for forgiveness theough Jesus, she was taught they all had to confess to a priest.

I have attended a presybterian church but they dont seem to go in for the fancy robes things. The pastor (or reverend) does wear a dog collar sometimes though. I notice in baptist churches they dont. Just normal clothes, and maybe a cross necklace, but nothing fancy.
It ultimately comes down to sound doctrine and teaching. This thing with the scarlet and purple, and gold is at best a mere indicator or a warning sign that God has afforded us in his Word. So for example if a particular church is espousing several doctrinal errors and in addition these colors keep showing up, then they might serve as an added warning to move on to another church. I mean if the pastor on occasion wears a purple or red shirt, this means nothing. If at another time they plant flowers on the front lawn and they happen to be scarlet or purple in color, again means notta.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
It ultimately comes down to sound doctrine and teaching. This thing with the scarlet and purple, and gold is at best a mere indicator or a warning sign that God has afforded us in his Word. So for example if a particular church is espousing several doctrinal errors and in addition these colors keep showing up, then they might serve as an added warning to move on to another church. I mean if the pastor on occasion wears a purple or red shirt, this means nothing. If at another time they plant flowers on the front lawn and they happen to be scarlet or purple in color, again means notta.
Are catholic churches all decorated in scarlet in purple as a rule...I dont know never been to a catholic church service.
 

Cindi

New member
Jun 6, 2019
3
2
3
This makes absolutely no sense.

The Antichrist is created by Satan to deceive people into thinking that he is the true Christ. Jesus said that many would come claiming to be Christ, and there have been quite a few false christs since that time. But this Man of Sin will dazzle the world with his charisma and his miracles, while he claims to be God and Christ. And since God will send strong delusion on an unbelieving world at that time, almost the whole world will believe that he is the true Messiah.

Islam is expecting the Mahdi at "end of days". Judaism is expecting their Messiah also at the end of days. Even Hindus believe that "the Christ" will appear at the end of days. Therefore this man will somehow convince all these groups (along with the rest of the world) that he is "the Christ".
I agree. This is where I suspect the strong delusion will take place. Every religion will interpret the false Christ as their own, and worldwide media once it censors the entire truth, will help to facilitate that deceit.