Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#221
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#221
It should bring us GREAT CONFIDENCE in preaching the Gospel that its not upto our own presentation, tone of voice, charisma, delivery or looks whether the person RECEIVES the gospel or not! That would be SOME PRESSURE! Weight of the world!

IF it were up to our own way of delivering it, we should get out all the bells and whistles and put our circus caps on like they do in the "emergent church" movement.

One plants one waters but GOD gives the increase
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#222
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#222
Hevosmies said:
It should bring us GREAT CONFIDENCE in preaching the Gospel that its not upto our own presentation, tone of voice, charisma, delivery or looks whether the person RECEIVES the gospel or not! That would be SOME PRESSURE! Weight of the world!

IF it were up to our own way of delivering it, we should get out all the bells and whistles and put our circus caps on like they do in the "emergent church" movement.

One plants one waters but GOD gives the increase
Click to expand...
You NAILED it!

1 Corinthians 2:5. By the way, for ForestGreenCook and his error that the Gospel is not for eternal salvation, well, you don't know what you're talking about Mr. Cook.

The word "power" there in the text refers to God's eternal salvation, and is what in context Paul is referring to. This is what what their faith is in, what they are justified by, and why they are declared righteous. The result is God's power unto eternal salvation through the Gospel. This is what the natural man does not receive in 2:14, a text ForestGreenCook distorts to support his heresy.
 
NayborBear

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#223
Dec 6, 2015
2,626
775
113
A deplorable! (so you know, what "state" I'm in!)
#223
Milee777 said:
Ohh. References..?
Click to expand...

Well? References, eh? This may very well, be placed into the "strong meat" category, that Paul spoke of. So, if that post didn't make no sense to ya? Perhaps someday, it will.

Far as myself is concerned? After living my whole life, fighting and warring, and running from (unbeknownst to me at the time) against the "eyes/traditions of men?" I "heard" the call! Not exactly, though. I answered the call! Although, I had passed it up several times over the past 15-20 years er so. "Are ya ready yet?" Realizing, over time, that it was actually Lord God Almighty, that was doin' the callin'!

So?.....Taking the bull by the horns? The post you responded to was the only "scenario" that made sense for my entire life! Up to, and including this very second!

Now!....Does this make any sense?

You don't have to be a little crazy to be foreknown or predestined! You have to be a LOT crazy! ;)
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#224
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#224
NayborBear said:
If you can "look" at election as a "kind" of reincarnation, albeit, from a former earth/heaven age? That age, when the dragon "swept" a third of the "stars" of heaven with his tale (tail)? Consider the 2/3rds that were not swept by his tail (tale).
And, then, those who were dwelling on earth at that time? Did not join in on the attempted "overthrow", but rather, stood WITH God, and fought against the dragon, and its cohorts.
Click to expand...
I hold the stars to be angels, and do not believe in pre-existence other than Jesus who of course pre existed as the LOGOS...but only He, none other.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#225
#225
Milee777 said:
Okay... But somewhere in the Scriptures, it is written that Sodom and Gomorrah would have repented... You said if God knows a person will accept Him, He will do all it takes.
Click to expand...
I think you are thinking of the passage which says sodom will judge this generation?
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#226
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#226
A Calvinist is never late, nor is he early... He arrives precisely when he was predestined to.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#227
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#227
There are issues with great clarity like the creeds state. Then there are the issues where there are multiple possibilities. That is why the early elders said outside the creeds the Biblical issues were to agree to disagree. This thread is discussing one of these issues. A Calvinist and Armenian will have different views on this subject for example.
 
Milee777

Milee777

Active member
#229
Dec 24, 2018
173
120
43
#229
eternally-gratefull said:
I think you are thinking of the passage which says sodom will judge this generation?
Click to expand...
I was searching my Bible... I found.. It would be more 'tolerable' for sodom and gomorrha... But still i feel somewhere i had read they would have repented if they saw all the things Jesus did.. something. Correct me if am wrong.
 
Milee777

Milee777

Active member
#230
Dec 24, 2018
173
120
43
#230
Milee777 said:
I was searching my Bible... I found.. It would be more 'tolerable' for sodom and gomorrha... But still i feel somewhere i had read they would have repented if they saw all the things Jesus did.. something. Correct me if am wrong.
Click to expand...
Or at least some other nation.. would have repented in sackcloth and ashes
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#231
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#231
Milee777 said:
I was searching my Bible... I found.. It would be more 'tolerable' for sodom and gomorrha... But still i feel somewhere i had read they would have repented if they saw all the things Jesus did.. something. Correct me if am wrong.
Click to expand...
In the exodus of Israelites from Egypt they had a piller of smoke to follow and a piller of fire to be there at night. They gathered mana every morning to eat during the day. When Moses went up the mountain to receive the 10 commandments he came down to find the people built an idol. Thus ignoring the evidence before their eyes. This is how people are that don't really believe in God and Jesus. They see and hear the evidence then reject it. The KJV states "the carnal mind is enmity against God". This country once was mostly Christian but recently has rejected Jesus with only a splinter going to churches that still preach the gospel message. With a a little less than half the people in the US going to church only a splinter ever hear the gospel message. God poured out his blessings and the people turned their backs on him.
 
Milee777

Milee777

Active member
#232
Dec 24, 2018
173
120
43
#232
Endoscopy said:
In the exodus of Israelites from Egypt they had a piller of smoke to follow and a piller of fire to be there at night. They gathered mana every morning to eat during the day. When Moses went up the mountain to receive the 10 commandments he came down to find the people built an idol. Thus ignoring the evidence before their eyes. This is how people are that don't really believe in God and Jesus. They see and hear the evidence then reject it. The KJV states "the carnal mind is enmity against God". This country once was mostly Christian but recently has rejected Jesus with only a splinter going to churches that still preach the gospel message. With a a little less than half the people in the US going to church only a splinter ever hear the gospel message. God poured out his blessings and the people turned their backs on him.
Click to expand...
Yea, God blessed your country. Made you the lender and never the borrower. Am from India... but as a child i had not known that Christianity was like the foundation of your country. All i knew about America was.. how cool it was... how trendy it was.. and its western culture, music had inspired my fellow Indians a lot. But as i became a Christian and just some few years back, i knew from your history that it was a Christian nation... It was built upon that faith... And so i realised why America became a great nation. It didn't take me a second to realise... The Lord had done it all... made you a great nation. Then i admired your nation after knowing that. Your glory is the Lord...the one who built you. It will be sad seeing you trading your Glory for idols... mehn! I wish the Lord reveals Himself to everyone in my nation..
I realise God is doing it... Many are getting transformed by just His presence at conferences here. One fellow Indian said '' a man is automatically transformed in Jesus's presence'' because he experienced it... and this guy was a hindu bfore. Many hindus are rising against their very own religious leaders who condemn Christian conferences falsely accusing the speakers. God can do anything.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#233
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#233
Milee777 said:
Well, who knows who is right. Let's stop dipping the biscuit in the gravy.. I donno what metaphor it is. Lets just eat that biscuit for now. Am personally going through what John Piper has to say about this. Am still going through it and it is interesting. Let's see where this goes and what i get from it. Thanks for all of your views. Am glad so many of you participated and shared your views about this deep concern of mine. You all deserve an applause.
Click to expand...
The biscuits in the gravy is my hokey way of saying to let that sink in...as sinking into your thoughts. Piper is a good one to go to imo.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#234
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#234
Hevosmies said:
It should bring us GREAT CONFIDENCE in preaching the Gospel that its not upto our own presentation, tone of voice, charisma, delivery or looks whether the person RECEIVES the gospel or not! That would be SOME PRESSURE! Weight of the world!

IF it were up to our own way of delivering it, we should get out all the bells and whistles and put our circus caps on like they do in the "emergent church" movement.

One plants one waters but GOD gives the increase
Click to expand...
I have read that when Jonathan Edwards preached his sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God', it was presented very dry. He was monotone in his speech, would barely make eye contact, just read the sermon as he had written it. As he was preaching it, sinners were laying all around him bawling, crying for God to save them. Now, that is a sermon! :D :)
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#235
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#235
Milee777 said:
Nahh... God is Love. I can't say that He would be laughing. I know He isn't. He is very loving. :( am srry i said that. God is good all the time. Though He slay me, yet will i trust in Him.
Click to expand...
There is a sermon in that which I bolded.

Look at Abram. He was living in Ur, minding his own business, doing his own thing. He and his family were pagans(Joshua 24:2) and not searching for God(another sermon in that statement, too), when God came to Abram. He was going to take him out of his comfort zone, into an unknown land with unknown peoples he would befriend and others confront. In all of this, he was to never know all the details of what God was going to do for him, just to trust Him. He did that, and look at all that happened in his life...and consequently...us.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#236
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#236
Milee777 said:
I was searching my Bible... I found.. It would be more 'tolerable' for sodom and gomorrha... But still i feel somewhere i had read they would have repented if they saw all the things Jesus did.. something. Correct me if am wrong.
Click to expand...
Tyre Sidon and Sodom; Matthew 11:20-24. Yes, this is true, yet Christ did not afford them the same mercy or grace, showing his Sovereignty, and declaring again God as the Potter.
 
Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Banned
#237
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#237
ForestGreenCook said:
You have a great burden upon your shoulders if you think all of those people are going to hell unless you can save them by preaching the gospel to them. That would make it your fault that they go to hell, how can you live with that guilt? Regeneration is eternal salvation by God's sovereign grace and understand the gospel follows regeneration.
Click to expand...
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast.(Ephesians 2)

People are saved by grace through faith my friend. There is no other way around this. Seeing that faith comes by hearing the word(Romans 10:17), there is no way one can be saved in remote areas where the word has never been proclaimed. Faith comes THROUGH hearing word(and I think reading it would be apt as well), not mystical means you teach.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#238
#238
Milee777 said:
I was searching my Bible... I found.. It would be more 'tolerable' for sodom and gomorrha... But still i feel somewhere i had read they would have repented if they saw all the things Jesus did.. something. Correct me if am wrong.
Click to expand...
Did you mean this one? Its about all I can find

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
 
Milee777

Milee777

Active member
#239
Dec 24, 2018
173
120
43
#239
Sackcloth-N-Ashes said:
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast.(Ephesians 2)

People are saved by grace through faith my friend. There is no other way around this. Seeing that faith comes by hearing the word(Romans 10:17), there is no way one can be saved in remote areas where the word has never been proclaimed. Faith comes THROUGH hearing word(and I think reading it would be apt as well), not mystical means you teach.
Click to expand...
Remote areas.. No one can be saved? Sounds as though God is helpless. In the middle east... or somewhere... Spreading the gospel was absolutely banned... then what happened... God became helpless because man banned the spread of the word..? Nah... They started seeing visions of Jesus, the people there. God revealed Himself personally to them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.