Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Consider this - you just delivered a baby but... whether this one is elect or not you don't know. Suppose this one is not an elect.... then are you saying - no matter how much u try to convince this child of yours to believe, he/she will not... even to old age and death. Why was this child even born then.. It would have been better if it were never born.

Let's turn the table on you here.

You have a child that no matter how hard you, and anyone else tries, will never be saved. In either scenario, that child came into the world with God knowing that He would have to pour His wrath upon your child.

All you are seeking to do, my friend, is get God off the hook by saying, "Hey, at least God tried to save my child." FYI, God has never tried to do anything, my friend.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Consider this - you just delivered a baby but... whether this one is elect or not you don't know. Suppose this one is not an elect.... then are you saying - no matter how much u try to convince this child of yours to believe, he/she will not... even to old age and death. Why was this child even born then.. It would have been better if it were never born.

My friend, I am seeing way too much Romans 9:20 seeping through your posts. You need to use some Genesis 18:25 instead.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's turn the table on you here.

You have a child that no matter how hard you, and anyone else tries, will never be saved. In either scenario, that child came into the world with God knowing that He would have to pour His wrath upon your child.

All you are seeking to do, my friend, is get God off the hook by saying, "Hey, at least God tried to save my child." FYI, God has never tried to do anything, my friend.

SMH.. I mean really? Where do people come up with this stuff?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) will never believe in spiritual things until God regenerates him(Eph 2:5).

Wrong my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is immutable, meaning He never changes. Now, if He loves everyone, then you have a conundrum on your hands. Which is it?

God loves everyone, then cast those He loves into hell for eternity.

--or--

He becomes mutable, changes His love for some, pours His wrath upon them when they are cast into an eternal hell.

Again my friend, which is it?

He loves everyone.

He does not send anyone to hell. They send themselves to hell because they did not believe in what Gods love came to offer.

Why is it when people use examples. They only give a few small examples. And not every possible example that can be used?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I have not replied to any of your post on purpose because you do not discus the scriptures rationally. I had rather you not reply to my post, but if you insist, do not expect another reply from me.

My friend, as @preacher4truth said, the unregenerate do understand spiritual things, that is why the Native American Indians believed in a 'Happy Hunting Ground', why Buddhists believe in a Nirvana, why the Muslims believe they will receive 70-72 virgins in heaven if they die a martyr.

They will not receive these things from the Spirit, not not understand them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God so loved the world...John 3:16.

Jesus said He is not praying for the world...John 17:9.

Now, if world means everybody without exception, then why is Jesus not praying for everybody without exception, not praying for those His Father loves?

You have Jesus going rogue on His Father.

Jesus loves the world. He came to die for them

In john 17, His specific prayer ocncerned those who would believe him. As John said in his first chapter. As many as has RECEVED Him he gave the power to be children. Thats who he prayed for. Those who would recieve him.

 

[pottersclay]

Milee777 predestination is mentioned through out the Bible the question that divides is what is meant by it.
It deals with many theological views and a very good teaching on this is taught by R.C. Sproul called chosen by God.
He teaches all sides of it and the history of the doctrine.
It is not just a Calvin thing. I encourage you to view it on Amazon or possible YouTube has it. It's old but very good.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I have not replied to any of your post on purpose because you do not discus the scriptures rationally. I had rather you not reply to my post, but if you insist, do not expect another reply from me.

My friend, this is an open forum and people can freely respond to whatever post they wish to respond to. None of us has the right and/or authority to tell others they can not respond to our posts. If you do not wish to get a response, do not make a post.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have not replied to any of your post on purpose because you do not discus the scriptures rationally. I had rather you not reply to my post, but if you insist, do not expect another reply from me.

I want to say for the record that your above statement is untrue. I've been objective in dealing with your posts, gospel, and error.

I've just pointed out how you've completely changed the text of 1 Corinthians 2:14, and have misused it. The text doesn't say what you've attempted to make it say.

The thing of note is that the way you misuse the text came shining through. You've misinterpreted it and have even re-worded it, and that was typed out on here in black and white for all to see. It gives me even deeper insight into your abuse of the passage to establish your doctrine -- in your mind only it says "doesn't believe in spiritual things" but it doesn't say this at all. But I am glad you typed it out that way because it exposes a lot about your beliefs and how you got there.

One thing unacceptable is your accusation that I haven't dealt with you or the Scriptures you use rationally. It's unacceptable because it is untrue. That said, I'm not going to hold it against you or be unforgiving toward you because I count you as a brother since you confess Christ.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So are you saying... That if i were to preach the gospel.... It will be ineffective if 100% of the audience consisted of the non elect. You are saying the gospel is not for the non elect people...? Are you saying we need to preach the gospel to selected few?

Jesus said in the Great Commission to go into all nations and preach the gospel to everyone. However, not everyone whoever lived will hear this good news, and will still die lost. Why will they die lost and not be saved even if they never heard the good news of Jesus Christ? They are condemned already per John 3:18.

You are looking at this the wrong way my friend. You think the unregenerate are walking around looking for a way to be saved, when in fact, that is not even remotely true. A lost person will never seek God, per Psalm 14 and Romans 3. The lost person is not walking around looking for a place to get into the kingdom of God. In fact, unless they are born again, they can not even see this glorious kingdom(John 3:3).

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus said in the Great Commission to go into all nations and preach the gospel to everyone. However, not everyone whoever lived will hear this good news, and will still die lost. Why will they die lost and not be saved even if they never heard the good news of Jesus Christ? They are condemned already per John 3:18.

You are looking at this the wrong way my friend. You think the unregenerate are walking around looking for a way to be saved, when in fact, that is not even remotely true. A lost person will never seek God, per Psalm 14 and Romans 3. The lost person is not walking around looking for a place to get into the kingdom of God. In fact, unless they are born again, they can not even see this glorious kingdom(John 3:3).

Yes, it is not as if the lost are wanting to be saved from their sins, or are going around trying to get into the kingdom, or as if God is there refusing to let them in even though they want in. We have at least one here who declares of himself that even when spiritually dead he wanted God, loved God &c. Such is an exercise of fantasy, as it is completely contrary to Scripture and isn't therefore biblical. It is pure subjective emotionalism.

But I digress, this is what we have today as the doctrine of many, purely subjective emotionalism contrary to sound doctrine. Couple that with their misconstrued "don't judge" and we can see they've encased themselves in a nearly impenetrable false gospel.

 

[preacher4truth]

My friend, as @preacher4truth said, the unregenerate do understand spiritual things, that is why the Native American Indians believed in a 'Happy Hunting Ground', why Buddhists believe in a Nirvana, why the Muslims believe they will receive 70-72 virgins in heaven if they die a martyr.

They will not receive these things from the Spirit, not not understand them.

With his teaching it means all those in Romans 1, including the reprobates, who know there is God and suppress this truth? They're regenerate.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

With his teaching it means all those in Romans 1, including the reprobates, who know there is God and suppress this truth? They're regenerate.

And we get these teachings from him ad nauseam and ad infinitum.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It deals with many theological views and a very good teaching on this is taught by R.C. Sproul called chosen by God.

As long as people are clear that R. C. Sproul holds to Reformed Theology, which teaches *Unconditional Election* -- that God elects some for salvation and others for damnation. But that is not what the Bible teaches.

*Upon what condition did God elect sinners to salvation? Was your positive choice for the gospel the basis for your election before the foundation of the world? Was God’s choice based on your foreseen choice? Simply put, did God choose you because you first chose Him? Would God be unfair if He chose some to salvation and not others? In this message, Dr. Sproul helps us understand this hard, yet biblical doctrine as he looks at “Unconditional Election.”*

 

[Lanolin]

I dont know who rc sproul is but it doesnt matter.

In the Bible, predestination is talking about Jesus, God knew before he was born that he would be the Messiah. Likewise those God calls he presdestines to be adopted so that we will conform to the image of his son. If youve heard the call and responded then you are going to be adopted into Gods family that is your destiny, you are going to be redeeemed and born again.

Also check out ephesians 1:5 having predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will


Presdestiny...this will happen, we will recieve our inheritance when we are born again.
It does not mean God chooses you before you are even physically born because nobody is actually physically born a christian. It means God chooses you to be born again to be His in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Milee777]

God so loved the world...John 3:16.

Jesus said He is not praying for the world...John 17:9.

Now, if world means everybody without exception, then why is Jesus not praying for everybody without exception, not praying for those His Father loves?

You have Jesus going rogue on His Father.

So according to u, in john 3:16 God so loved the 'world'... The term' wor

God is immutable, meaning He never changes. Now, if He loves everyone, then you have a conundrum on your hands. Which is it?

God loves everyone, then cast those He loves into hell for eternity.

--or--

He becomes mutable, changes His love for some, pours His wrath upon them when they are cast into an eternal hell.

Again my friend, which is it?

U said God is immutable.. so how come the second option even arose which is saying He becomes mutable.
I would go for the first option... Remember Jesus was saying something like... '' how often i wanted to gather you like a hen gathers her chicks under her feathers but you were not willing''... So He loved them even though they went the wrong way... And again in the Scriptures it is written... I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked. So considering what u said that God is immutable... And the verse '' God so loved the world... ''.. I would say.. He loves everyone.. Though some be lost... He does not will that any should Perish

 

[Milee777]

Let's turn the table on you here.

You have a child that no matter how hard you, and anyone else tries, will never be saved. In either scenario, that child came into the world with God knowing that He would have to pour His wrath upon your child.

All you are seeking to do, my friend, is get God off the hook by saying, "Hey, at least God tried to save my child." FYI, God has never tried to do anything, my friend.

So are you saying God never cared about some lost people... That He never even tried to save that child..? You are ready to believe that God is unjust..? Am not yet ready to believe that.

 

[Milee777]

My friend, I am seeing way too much Romans 9:20 seeping through your posts. You need to use some Genesis 18:25 instead.

Yeah i just read Genesis 18:25. It is awesome. Its like a person can do the right thing and feel secure that God cares if we do the right thing or not rather than believing that God would repay us not according to doing what is just but according to an election. Pretty confusing.

 

[Milee777]

He loves everyone.

He does not send anyone to hell. They send themselves to hell because they did not believe in what Gods love came to offer.

Why is it when people use examples. They only give a few small examples. And not every possible example that can be used?

Yeah. We send ourselves to hell... Because reading the Bible will be all pointless when it doesn't matter what choice we make. Its like God giving us a choice - '' if you believe.. '' and immediately going backstage and saying 'cheers' to His colleagues and saying... '' i just said it but didnt mean it, i have already decided who among the audience i will allow inside my kingdom''.. Wohoo!