nephilim

[reneweddaybyday]

[consider also: what has been said about "the 5 'I WILLs'" of Isaiah 14, culminating in the last two, stated in verse 14's "... I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High" and that which is stated in Hebrews 2:7,9 "a little LOWER than the angels" (the word for "lower" also used in Jn3:30, for example)… "kept not" seems they intended "up higher, above the Highest," not "down lower" (as Jesus Himself condescended)

If you are going to claim the fall of satan as recorded in Isaiah 14 is the same thing the angels God saw fit to cast into hell due to their sin, why is satan allowed to roam the earth, yet the angels that sinned during time of Noah and at the time of Sodom / Gomorrha were cast into hell / delivered into chains of darkness to be reserved into judgment?


Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Interesting that God allowed (and continues to allow) lucifer (satan) to roam the earth, but the angels that sinned were cast into hell and delivered into chains of darkness to be reserved into judgment:


2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[Magenta]

Here is an interesting write-up/analysis on Jude 7 regarding Homosexuality and “Strange Flesh”

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Here is a very good example of the use of another (héteros) and another (állos):

Galatians 1:

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another [héteros] gospel:

7 Which is not another [állos]; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

We all know the meaning of these verses ... verse 6 shows that the Galatian believers had followed another [héteros (a different kind, a perversion of the true) ] gospel and verse 7 makes it clear that it was not another [állos (of the same kind as the true) ] gospel which brings the grace of Christ.

The Galatian believers followed another [héteros (of a different kind) ] gospel taught by those who perverted the gospel of Christ.

 

[garee]

Men? According to Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even.

The sexual sin was angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation as well as the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them ... going after strange [héteros – another (of a different kind) ] flesh (Jude 1:7).


If the "sexual sin was homosexuality with men … Nothing more and nothing less" (your words) the going after strange [héteros – another (of a different kind) ] flesh

would be

the going after strange [állos ("another of the same kind") ] flesh

Thanks for the reply

I would offer.

No shapeshifting..... Where is the gospel in that kind of idea? How could a believer support each other if we did wrestle against flesh and blood or were approved by our actions as laws of men. . . laws are needed. Shapeshifting sounds like the foundation of Paganism..
We wrestle against the spiritual things not seen as a law of faith. Believing the will of our father in heaven who does work in us with us to both will and perform his good pleasure..

How would shapeshifting draw us to hear the will of our unseen father in heaven by the spirit of faith? . . Why after the will of men as some do with what they call transubstantiation (Catholicism for the bold one ). Bread shapeshifting into the flesh and blood of a god.

Making eternal God into a creature?

Even Jesus the Son of man, would not stand in the Holy unseen place of the Father but said giving glory to the unseen; there is none good but one, that is, God:


God is not a man as us and nether is their a fleshly mediator set between God not seen and man seen .. that would be the position of the Pope or other signs as wonders seekers (walk by sight) . Jesus would of never sat in that place. as a Pope, or what the bible identifies as a daysman.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Another way of saying walk by faith the eternal unseen . And not by sight after the temporal what the eyes see.

The word angel "messenger" Like the word apostle "sent one" has seemed to have lost its integrity giving it over to some who walk by sight .(sign seekers)They called a froward nation (no faith) natural unconverted mankind. (no faith that comes from hearing God) In that way we all begin and are given a living hope for growth in our new love. Hearing and believing God not seen.

John the Baptist is identified as a messenger “angelos” in Matthew 11:10. Its what believers do bring the message of God.(evangelize)

He sends them out as apostles two by two just as the Genesis account, involving lot.. to evangelize the homosexual community (strange flesh) of that town. It why he came to destroy it. Those kind of moral issues are at the fall of any government . its why history repeated its self men cannot change without the help of God. They have no visons. Proverbs says they perish. Its the kind of world we live in.

These men of Sodom most likely did not even believe in angel as spirits to truth . The kind of messages sent by the Father to strengthen the Son of man, Jesus to finish the demonstration. Or sent to strengthen Jonas in hell (belly of the whale) enabling him to finish the work . Those homosexuals proved to be faithless as those who walk after the lust of the flesh the lust of the flesh as gay pride .God to show his judgment using salt to symbolize destroyed those who had no faith.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

All prophets are considered angels as messengers in that way .He sends them out two by two .Unlike the other kind of angels that are not subject to salvation.

When speaking of angel that have no form an example like that is used when God put his words on the mouth of a Balaam's donkey .they are identified as not just angels but angel of the lord . Not angels as men . Hundreds of time that theme (angel of the lord )is used shown as the difference. Angels messenger as men were sent to the city.

The same two angels are called men in context. Men as believers are sent as messengers (angels) to evangelize .

Clearly the word angel can apply to the messengers seen as well as the two classes not seen, not subject to salvation.

The homosexual men were subject to salvation . Only God cannot look upon the heart .He knows whose hearts he is working in.

Perhaps some were converted when they heard the message like the thief on the cross? Those details are not given The Homosexual community treated those two evangelists like many today treat evangelist . Who made you judge? Prayer is needed just as with Abraham when the two men walked away.

Cain slew Abel. The out of sight out of mind. The government of the Pagan religions of this world

 

[Dino246]

No shapeshifting..... Where is the gospel in that kind of idea?

Nobody except you is claiming that there was any shapeshifting going on.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I would offer.

Nothing in your Post #164 addressed the issue brought up in my Post #150.

You stated (in your Post #141) that

"The sexual sin was homosexuality with men sent with the message of God. Nothing more and nothing less."​

I pointed out that according to Jude 1:7, the sin of fornication and going after strange flesh was more than "homosexuality with men sent with the message of God. Nothing more and nothing less" in my assertion that if it was as you claim, Jude 1:7 would have used the Greek word állos ("another of the same kind") in describing the strange flesh.

But Jude specifically points out that the strange flesh was héteros – another (of a different kind).

There was something going on back in days of Noah and days of Sodom which was much more contemptible and insidious. Whatever was going on caused God to bind angels in everlasting chains under darkness, and further to utterly destroy all flesh that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man (Noah's day) and to overthrow Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof ... so shall no man abide there (Lot's day).

No shapeshifting..... Where is the gospel in that kind of idea?

The gospel is the saving and preservation of the believer at time of flood and at time of destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

2 Peter 2:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; )

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished

 

[garee]

Here is a very good example of the use of another (héteros) and another (állos):

Galatians 1:

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another [héteros] gospel:

7 Which is not another [állos]; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

We all know the meaning of these verses ... verse 6 shows that the Galatian believers had followed another [héteros (a different kind, a perversion of the true) ] gospel and verse 7 makes it clear that it was not another [állos (of the same kind as the true) ] gospel which brings the grace of Christ.

The Galatian believers followed another [héteros (of a different kind) ] gospel taught by those who perverted the gospel of Christ.

I think the lost tribes are still lost and will not be found..Its like the missing bone theory that could connect us to another kind of creation the monkey kind .

What was vague in the Jonas example? What missing?

 

[garee]

Nobody except you is claiming that there was any shapeshifting going on.

Really, angels that have no form, not created from the rudiments of this world (DNA) taking on a form of a man? Transubstantiation. what you see is not what you get .That's what you recommended as the work of Dr. Michael S. Heiser the subject matter.

They were simply two men sent with the gospel , messengers/angels as men. He send them out as men , two by two . The human the Sodomites men wanted to have sex with other human men .Nothing more and nothing less.

When used as a messenger (singular) the word used tor strengthen a believer as the angels messenger of truth not seen. those kind are not subject to salvation or multiplying ( no DNA) .

The phrase; "angel of the Lord" would be used in context to represent the unseen . The Lord brought a vision of the unseen world through a creature used to show God is not served by human hands in nay way shape or form . We walk by faith the unseen eternal .
Angel of the Lord (singular) is used that way throughout the Bible to help us distinguish between the two kinds..


Numbers 22:31 Then the Lord opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.

 

[garee]

Nothing in your Post #164 addressed the issue brought up in my Post #150.

You stated (in your Post #141) that

"The sexual sin was homosexuality with men sent with the message of God. Nothing more and nothing less."​

I pointed out that according to Jude 1:7, the sin of fornication and going after strange flesh was more than "homosexuality with men sent with the message of God. Nothing more and nothing less" in my assertion that if it was as you claim, Jude 1:7 would have used the Greek word állos ("another of the same kind") in describing the strange flesh.

But Jude specifically points out that the strange flesh was héteros – another (of a different kind).

There was something going on back in days of Noah and days of Sodom which was much more contemptible and insidious. Whatever was going on caused God to bind angels in everlasting chains under darkness, and further to utterly destroy all flesh that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man (Noah's day) and to overthrow Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof ... so shall no man abide there (Lot's day).





The gospel is the saving and preservation of the believer at time of flood and at time of destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

2 Peter 2:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; )

9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished

The gospel is the saving and preservation the seed of Christ, the spirutual unseen seed . The unevenly yoked believers as sons of God as born again saints. . . they where mingling with unbelievers . . called "daughters of men (mankind)" They tended to make the faith that comes from hearing God without effect. The flood the restoring work .

Makes me wonder when he does come on the last day . . will he find the faith of God that comes from hearing God or will it be the end of the world this time?

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

"Nephilim"Or nphil {nef-eel'}; from naphal properly,. . . . . . a feller, i.e. A bully or tyrant -- giant.

There were bullies, one of the meanings of the Hebrew word "Nephilim" also meaning fallen ones even after the flood . God used David in line with the spiritual seed as a bully (man of renown) to show their taller bully just who the grasshoppers really are .Goliath a word that means uncovered or naked fell forward right on his face.

1 Samuel 17: 49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I think the lost tribes are still lost and will not be found..Its like the missing bone theory that could connect us to another kind of creation the monkey kind .

Well, when we've got Scripture telling us

God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment (2 Peter 2:4), and

the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day (Jude 1:6), and

the destruction of all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man (Gen 7:21), and

the fire and brimstone that rained down upon Sodom and Gomorrah,

we've got much, much more than your insinuation that what has been discussed on the pages of this thread is simply a "missing link" theory.

 

[Dino246]

Really, angels that have no form, not created from the rudiments of this world (DNA) taking on a form of a man?

The Bible does not say that angels have no form, nor does it say that they have no DNA. That's your invention, and it holds no water.

Transubstantiation. what you see is not what you get .

Transsubstantiation is a Catholic perversion that I have not even mentioned, let alone advocated. Why you continually rail about subjects that nobody has mentioned is a mystery.

They were simply two men sent with the gospel , messengers/angels as men. He send them out as men , two by two . The human the Sodomites men wanted to have sex with other human men .Nothing more and nothing less.

The Bible does not state that they were human. Humans don't have the power to strike people with blindness.

When used as a messenger (singular) the word used tor strengthen a believer as the angels messenger of truth not seen. those kind are not subject to salvation or multiplying ( no DNA) .

More assertions with no biblical basis.

The phrase; "angel of the Lord" would be used in context to represent the unseen . The Lord brought a vision of the unseen world through a creature used to show God is not served by human hands in nay way shape or form . We walk by faith the unseen eternal .
Angel of the Lord (singular) is used that way throughout the Bible to help us distinguish between the two kinds.

The text of Genesis 18 and 19 does not use the phrase, "angel of the Lord" so these comments are irrelevant.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God used David in line with the spiritual seed as a bully

Again you're peddling your lie that the nĕphiyl who were referred to as men of renown in Gen 6:4 were just like David, who God refers to as a man after His own heart (Acts 13:22). Again, the nĕphiyl were nothing like David.

The nĕphiyl were utterly destroyed at the time of the flood; they were destroyed at the time of Sodom/Gomorrah. The children of Israel were to destroy the nĕphiyl at the time Joshua brought the children of Israel into the promised land, but they were still around in David's time.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Makes me wonder when he does come on the last day . . will he find the faith of God that comes from hearing God or will it be the end of the world this time?

Read Revelation ... next time He comes He will come in judgment. There will be a remnant who will be faithful to God. But there will be many unbelievers.

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

Psalm 78:24-26 (KJV)

And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.

Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

PS~ There is not one instance in the Bible where any angel took
on human form aside from performing the express will of God.

Good point! So you got me interested and I started doing a little research.

The word "angels" in Psa 78:25 is translated from אַבִּיר, (H47). Only 17 occurrences in the KJV. Which KJV has translated as: ones (Jdg 5:22), chiefest (1Sa 21:7), mighty (Job 24:22, 34:20), strong (Psa 22:12), bulls (Psa 50:13, 68:30), stouthearted, valiant. And only this one time as angels.

Which is different than the other word that KJV translates as "angel", (H4397) מַלְאָךְ. With 213 occurrences in the KJV. See Gen 6:7, 9, 10, etc.

I am not saying that it doesn't mean "angels" in Psa 78:25, but it doesn't mean messenger. So I am even more curious now.

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

I DON"T KNOW!!!

I don't think demon spawn; I'm streaming the X-files right now that could have been one of the shows....lol....

I know there is not a Hebrew word for giant.

The KJV translates the word "giant" from H5303-nephı̂yl and from H4794-râphâ'.

According to Strong's, H5303-nephı̂yl means a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant. BUT it says it is from H5307-nâphal, which means to fall. And in Num 13:33 it is referring to them as giant like, in their own sight they were as grasshoppers and in the sons of Anak sight too. So they were giants.

According to Strong's, H4794-râphâ' means a giant. You will find that KJV translates this as "Rephaims" in Gen 14:5 as well as other scriptures and as giants others.

 

[ChristWhoLivesInMe]

Lots of great thoughts and scriptures. I will have to study what you all have offered. Thanks.

 

[garee]

Whatever "sin" they participated in resulted in nephilim, which further resulted in God bringing judgment to the extent that:

Genesis 7:

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Yes and there were bullies (Nephilim) after the flood.

God sent human messengers with the gospel as sons of God. The homosexual men desired to have sex with them. God destroyed the city .

Same kind of born again sons of God as us. He sends us out two by two. When two or three gather together under the power of His authority (the hearing of faith. . the gospel ) he is there working in us to both will and do his good pleasure..

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes and there were bullies (Nephilim) after the flood.

What you fail to acknowledge is that the nephilim were not just your run of the mill "bullies".

You want everyone to believe that God utterly destroyed all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things (Gen 7:21-23) because they were "bullies"???

And again, you never have seriously considered why there were no believers (other than Noah's family). Surely if a father is a believer who marries an unbelieving mother, some of the children would be believers?

You also gloss over the fact that at the time of the flood, God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment (2 Peter 2:4).

At the time of the flood, what did these angels do which caused God not only to utterly destroy all flesh, but also cast angels that sinned into hell?

There is much, much more going on in the flood than some believers marrying unbelievers and their children ending up being "bullies" who were tall.

Think about it before you close your heart to what really went on during Noah's time.

God sent human messengers with the gospel as sons of God. The homosexual men desired to have sex with them. God destroyed the city .

You again gloss over the fact that at the time of Sodom, God rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground (Gen 19:24,25).

At the time of Sodom, what did these angels do which caused God not only to utterly destroy the cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants, that which grew upon the ground, but also cast the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day (Jude 1:6).

There is much, much more going on in the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah than "homosexual men" desiring to "have sex" and the result being offspring (which is biologically impossible) who were "bullies".

Think about it before you close your heart to what really went on at the time of destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah, all the plain, all inhabitant of the city, and that which grew upon the ground.

 

[Dino246]

Yes and there were bullies (Nephilim) after the flood.

God sent human messengers with the gospel as sons of God. The homosexual men desired to have sex with them. God destroyed the city .

Which verse says the messengers were human?

Please post it, so we all can see.

 

[garee]

Which verse says the messengers were human?

Please post it, so we all can see.

Genesis 19:1-5 King James Version (KJV And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Not where are the angels as strangers that which came with you we want to entertain them .

They were human messengers sent with the word of God same kind as below

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

He sends his human messengers out with the word of God, prophecy, Two by two. (angels as men plural) The great commission sent out many with the gospel two by two.

The unseen messenger are referred to as an "the angel of the lord" . They are administering spirits of truth.

Throughout the scriptures The unseen messengers are referred to as an "the angel of the lord", singular. They are not referred to as men .

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Judges 6:21-22 Then the angel of the Lord put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the Lord departed out of his sight. And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.