New Age: New Apostolic Reformation

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NoahsMom

Guest
#61
This is my whole theroy in a nutshell...............if God wants to rapture me out, come on and get me, if not, then give me the tools I need ( the word), so I can STAND. When i study and read the word, I ask questions, like i would on here, I might not get answered immediately, but in HIS time, I get answered. I have studied and asked specific questions reguarding the rapture, and thus far, I dont see it. Im not sayin Im 100% sure, or even right, Im just sayin so far, thats what Gods gave me. As far as this new age apostolic reformation , if it dont line up with the word of God.....Im not buyin what their sellin. thats the creepy, scarey part.....how in this world ANYBODY would want to tell any thing to anybody that they did not know was 100% sure, correct....scares the livin daylights outta me. Jude touches on this.....and its not pretty, I just cannot wrap my brain around someone layin hands on someone , teaching something to someone ( KNOWINGLY) and it not be of God. Zone, I know you ask alot of questions about ppl prophesyin, layin on hands, speakin in tongues, getti na direct word from God etc, because YOU WANT TO REALLY KNOW, Ill just tell you, the very few times I EVER felt led to pray for someone, it wasnt showey, or done in a public display, but out of sheer OBEDIANCE on my part, because thats what I was lead to do, and there was absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind, where it came from, or what it was to accomplish. I dont have all the answeres , i dont know why ppl act in such ways as these, but i can tell you, I was raised HCOG mixed non-denom and pent.....lil bit of all of it throwed in there, and i have NEVER been taught this kinda thing ( THANK YOU JESUS)......but, i do know its out there, its real, and they are deceiving ppl.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#62
It doesn't make sense because for the most part God has shielded us and our lives from people who are so deceived but I saddens me to learning how many things are NOT biblical and being taught as Gospel truth in churches.

I've found books in church libraries that no one screens that perhaps should be looked closer at. I believe in spiritual gifts but they are gifts and not possessions.. the Holy Spirit moves as God directs no one knows where the wind comes from or goes. how can you possess something when your body is a temple to God?

never really made sense to me.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”


It is sad really

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
 
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NoahsMom

Guest
#63
how can you possess something when your body is a temple to God?

AMEN.....you just got it SPOT ON.....
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#64
...............
 
Last edited:
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NoahsMom

Guest
#65
Thats just it tho zone, We all come by things in VERY different ways. Doesnt mean your way is wrong, its how you came by being what you are today. I have heard of ppl, not seen it with my own two eyes, but heard, from ppl lets say Im quite sure would not lie, about someone in authority leader, pastor what have you " teaching " them how to speak in tongues. I was absolutely horrified, but it does happen, sadly enough, so i know why ppl ar gun shy, skeptical, heck, i would be too. I have also had ppl lay hands on me before, and physically try to push me down.....NOT HAPPENIN here sister, God will be the one to knock me on my face, and NOBODY else. I have also seen someone throw a $20 bill on a pulpit and tell a room full of mostly teenagers that the first one to get it at altercall would be saved......im tellin you girl, CRAZINESS.....and nobody batted an eye.....thats just a lil tip of the iceberg...and itll only get scarier, crazier, and that breaks Gods heart. What burns me worse than anything, is its not at all what i been taught, thats not how church was for me as a kid or now....but, some ppl will never see that thanks to the fruit loops we have today.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#66
Thats just it tho zone, We all come by things in VERY different ways. Doesnt mean your way is wrong, its how you came by being what you are today. I have heard of ppl, not seen it with my own two eyes, but heard, from ppl lets say Im quite sure would not lie, about someone in authority leader, pastor what have you " teaching " them how to speak in tongues. I was absolutely horrified, but it does happen, sadly enough, so i know why ppl ar gun shy, skeptical, heck, i would be too. I have also had ppl lay hands on me before, and physically try to push me down.....NOT HAPPENIN here sister, God will be the one to knock me on my face, and NOBODY else. I have also seen someone throw a $20 bill on a pulpit and tell a room full of mostly teenagers that the first one to get it at altercall would be saved......im tellin you girl, CRAZINESS.....and nobody batted an eye.....thats just a lil tip of the iceberg...and itll only get scarier, crazier, and that breaks Gods heart. What burns me worse than anything, is its not at all what i been taught, thats not how church was for me as a kid or now....but, some ppl will never see that thanks to the fruit loops we have today.
maybe you and scott could just have church at your place once a week....take the bread and wine and read the bible.

thats all thats needed.
 
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NoahsMom

Guest
#67
Its funny you say that.....thats been the discussion between us and several friends for weeks.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#68
Rick Joyner and Morningstar Ministries


Prophet or Heretic?


Rick Joyner heads Morningstar Ministries
Many supporters of today's controversial Renewal and Revival movements consider him to be a "prophet" and/or "apostle".

Others, including theologians, apologists and cult watchers, rightly consider Joyner to by one the most unsound and dangerous teachers around. His error-filled, unorthodox teachings include (but are not limited to) Kingdom Now (or Dominion) theology, extra-biblical revelation, and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Rick Joyner is neither a true prophet nor apostle. He teaches too much error to be either. He holds out (by his many books) an appearance of taking us to higher ground when in reality he robs us of a rich doctrinal heritage as well as the Bible. His dominionism is false and utopian and he confuses the resurrection and reign of Christ with the present state of the Church, thereby misleading Christians with false hope.

Joyner's claims of revelation knowledge produce a dulling effect in regard to a desire for the Scriptures.
[...]

Joyner's books are a jumble of confusion. One has to wade through a lot of sludge to find a few nuggets of truth.

The CRN Journal
says that Joyner is peddling a ''dark mysticism'' and they conclude:
''Joyner leaves us no middle way. Either we treat him as God's chosen super-prophet for the end-times, or we treat him as a man in the grip of evil deceit and seek to expose him as such''
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal
, October-December 2000, page 14-15


Examples of Joyner's false prophecies abound. For example:


In the late 1990s, Joyner jumped onto the Y2K bandwagon as he claimed that the Lord ''finally did begin to speak'' about the issue. According to Joyner, God supposedly revealed that, ''The most severe difficulties will come from the panic generated by the situation'' and '' The Lord told me to observe the problems that Y2K will cause in the natural world as a reflection of the problems we have in the body of Christ.''

Thus according to Joyner's revelation the Church must not have had problems since Y2K was a non-event.
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal
, October-December 2000, page 6


Typical of the Joyner/Jones prophecies is this December 31, 1997 this one
(RealAudio). It includes the type of judgement prophecies that have become popular in today's so-called renewal and revival movements (e.g. LA is to be leveled by earthquakes AND nuclear bombs; the Mississipi will be 35 miles wide...). Check the date, and the time-schedules hinted at. (Nine months: this movement is always talking about spiritual pregnancy, things born in the spirit, etc. One of the manifestations looks and sounds like someone giving birth).

Note that at the time, Joyner was selling cabins at his East Coast ''Moravian community.'' (Morningstar Prophetic Bulletin, April, 1998)




Prophets? Apostles? Super-Apostles?


Like other leaders in the fore- and background of the controversial renewal/revival movements, Joyner rarely refers to himself as a prophet. However, these leaders refer to each other as apostles and prophets - and certainly do not discourage their followers from addressing them as such.

In his book "The Harvest," Joyner says:


What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas...




Self-serving Illusion​


Though Joyner's doctrinal statement is a rather standard one, we will see that in many places his writings and books contradict and undermine it. One can only wonder if his doctrinal statement is merely window dressing and subterfuge; or if perhaps his allegiance to a movement which views itself as a superlative extension of the Church has moved him aways from a more stable and orthodox foundation. Joyner is like a child musician playing many sour notes with the good ones while telling us he is an accomplished prodigy. When we object, he will call attention to the few good notes. Joyner's trumpet is offkey and giving out an ''uncertain sound'' (1 Corinthians 14:7-8
. Had he lived in the Old Testament era, he would have been stoned by now (Deuteronomy 13:1-5
, 18:20-22
)

Joyner unabashedly promotes his most bizarre and unrealistic ideas this way:
''In the near future the church will not be looking back at the first century church with envy because of the great exploits of those days, but all will be saying that He certainly did save His best wine for last. The most glorious times in all of history have now come upon us. You who have dreamed of one day being able to talk with Peter, John and Paul are going to be surprised to find that they have all been waiting to talk to you! You have been chosen to see the harvest, the fruit of the seed that they were planting.''
Joyner is so bold as to state that nations will be overwhelmed by the newly appointed apostles and that ''Miracles which exceed even some of the most spectacular biblical marvels will cause whole nations to acknowledge Jesus ... The appearances of angels will be so common that they will cease to be related as significant events. The Lord himself will appear to councils of apostles and elders to give them directives.''
[...]

Joyner has two major obsessions: ''Prophetic Restoration'' and ''Apostolic Restoration.'' He explains these as follows:
''A new wave of ministries is about to be released with extraordinary prophetic gifts. Others with revelatory gifting who were sidetracked because of controversy, or other problems, are about to get back on the fast track ... The apostolic ministry that opened the church age will be raised up at the end to complete it. The Lord is restoring the apostolic authority of the church and soon this will become a major emphasis. There will be almost a general openness to this as men of true apostolic authority, with a true apostolic lifestyle, take their place in leadership.''
Glaringly absent from Joyner's agenda is any biblical warrant for his words. There is no Scripture offered as proof for this self-serving illusion. Ephesians is clear that the Church is built on ''the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.'' (Ephesians 2:19 ). Why would God have to lay the foundation all over again? The Church, since the time of Paul, is described as ''God's building. '' (1 Corinthians 3:91-10 ). A building, especially God's Church, is not in need of another foundation. No wonder Joyner gives not Scripture for his grandiose imaginings.

Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal
, October-December 2000, page 7

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/j08.html
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#69
Thats just it tho zone, We all come by things in VERY different ways. Doesnt mean your way is wrong, its how you came by being what you are today. I have heard of ppl, not seen it with my own two eyes, but heard, from ppl lets say Im quite sure would not lie, about someone in authority leader, pastor what have you " teaching " them how to speak in tongues. I was absolutely horrified, but it does happen, sadly enough, so i know why ppl ar gun shy, skeptical, heck, i would be too. I have also had ppl lay hands on me before, and physically try to push me down.....NOT HAPPENIN here sister, God will be the one to knock me on my face, and NOBODY else. I have also seen someone throw a $20 bill on a pulpit and tell a room full of mostly teenagers that the first one to get it at altercall would be saved......im tellin you girl, CRAZINESS.....and nobody batted an eye.....thats just a lil tip of the iceberg...and itll only get scarier, crazier, and that breaks Gods heart. What burns me worse than anything, is its not at all what i been taught, thats not how church was for me as a kid or now....but, some ppl will never see that thanks to the fruit loops we have today.
wow. seriously???

I feel even more sheltered. Thank you Lord from protecting me from that craziness.



that is deeply disturbing but on the up note there are some very good Bible believing pentecostal preachers that are not into those type of things.

Our Pastor

YouTube - Canal de CPRCNI
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#70
The one constant that Ive read in the scriptures is that one cannot will anything on their own.
Thats why when I see some one call many up, and then stand as they appear to bring the Holy Spirit into thier self, one has to see this is not of God.
Scripture states we cannot will the Holy Spirit.
This means that we are subject to the will of God in the workings of the Holy Spirit.
The times Ive know this gift given, were in a moment, and the understanding, word, or knowladge spoke from me with out my own thinking.
I only know that these were given in Jesus, as this person shared or asked for prayers.
Quite honestly, I later thought, I cannot believe I said that!
It is not about what one wants, wills or knows.
All is about one looking to Jesus, it is in Jesus that the will of God is given through the Holy Spirit.
Not about us.
All we can do is keep our eyes on Jesus, it is while looking at Jesus that He will show what is given.
If ones eyes are directed anywhere else, then it cannot be from Him.

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
 
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Necto

Guest
#71
Spirit of God is opposed to said zone. In her words, slander, and absolute ignorance of what she says. She does not know the people who speak of God, 'cause she does not have communion with God. How often can see people who know only part of the truth, and therefore only claim to possession of the rest! Insensitive people to the Holy Spirit can not determine anything!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#72
Spirit of God is opposed to said zone. In her words, slander, and absolute ignorance of what she says. She does not know the people who speak of God, 'cause she does not have communion with God. How often can see people who know only part of the truth, and therefore only claim to possession of the rest! Insensitive people to the Holy Spirit can not determine anything!
right necto.
so what apostolic era gift(s) do you have that you're so offended historic christianity has always known CEASED? raising the dead? extrabiblical revelation? revelation knowledge? prophecy?

in fact necto: people who get involved in seeking 'charismata' almost always end up dulled to the prompting and guidance of the Holy Spirit, and almost always end up in disaster. they end up seeking signs (only the wicked seek signs), and needing to walk by sight, not faith. lying spirits and demons love this realm.

charismatics assume cessationism means denying the power of the Holy Spirit: but ironically its those who seek the PARTIAL things, the things that would pass away who end up only knowing part of the truth. ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth: what truth?

IT IS FINISHED.

every regenerated believer receives exactly what they need, they are fully equipped, according to the measure given by God.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#73
Continuationism and Credulity, East and West



[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]by Phil Johnson[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Last time we posted on this subject, I figured we had said enough about it, and I had no plans to bring it up again. But I get lots of e-mails from charismatics who want to argue about cessationism, and lately they have seemed to come more frequently and with more passion than usual. Maybe this will help:[/FONT]
've said in the past that I've never met a real continuationist. Every charismatic I have ever discussed cessationism with ultimately admits that certain key features of the apostolic era are no longer in operation. For example, no one is writing new books of Scripture. No one can credibly claim to have raised the dead. The gifts of healing and prophecy claimed by today's charismatics are not of the same character or quality as "the signs of a true apostle" (2 Corinthians 12:12).

In fact, all the charismatics I know who are basically orthodox when it comes to the gospel and the authority of Scripture will freely admit that there are not even any "true apostles" today—i.e., there is no one today whose teaching is infallible and authoritative in the same sense Peter's and Paul's apostolic ministries were.

What is that but a kind of selective cessationism?

I once also remarked that anyone who believes he truly does possess an apostolic-quality gift of healing ought to be exercising that gift in hospitals and in doctors' waiting rooms, where such a gift could do the most good.

A charismatic reader wrote to challenge that suggestion:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Where in Scripture do we find those with the gift of healing purposefully going around looking for sick people to heal, and then healing every sick person they find?[/FONT]

I wrote back:

It seems to me that is precisely what Jesus Himself did:

"Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them" (Matt. 4:23-24).
Sometimes the sick were brought to Him:

"They brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick" (Matt. 8:16).
Other times, He actively sought them out:

"Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people" (Matt. 9:35).
He also sent the disciples on precisely the kind of mission I proposed for those who believe they have gifts of healing:

"He went round about the villages, teaching. And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits . . . And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them" (Mark 6:6-7, 13).
Christ's reputation as a healer did not escape the notice of anyone, and Scripture repeatedly says He healed all the sick He encountered:

"And whithersoever he entered, into villages, or cities, or country, they laid the sick in the streets, and besought him that they might touch if it were but the border of his garment: and as many as touched him were made whole" (Mark 6:56).

"All they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. And devils also came out of many. . ." (Luke 4:40).

"And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all" (Luke 6:19).

"God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him" (Acts 10:38).
Same with the apostles in the earliest days of the church:

"And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one" (Acts 5:14-16).
I defy any modern charismatic to demonstrate that anything on this scale this is happening anywhere today.



My correspondent replied:


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Perhaps we in the West do not see much of the power of God because of the practical atheism of our Weltanschauung. We may fight for the inerrancy of Scripture, but do we not often turn the Bible into a catalogue for a museum of extinct species, rather than seeing it as a field guide to test what is happening in the world around us today?[/FONT]

Oh, brother.

Frankly, that sort of East vs. West rhetoric is a tired cliche that has been answered repeatedly. I think it was John Wimber who first popularized the "we're just too Western" argument among charismatics. I'm amazed people are still parroting the claim, because it is so easily refuted.

CONT......
http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2009/08/continuationism-and-credulity-east-and.html
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#74
Sunday, July 25, 2010

The New Apostolic Reformation


I want to preface this study with a statement: I do not have anything against the Pentecostal or Charismatic Church. I found the Lord Jesus Christ through a Pentecostal Church of God over 25 years ago, and have had a long spiritual journey of twists and turns within the Charismatic movement. I fully believe they love the Lord and want to please Him in their Christian walk. I don't want so appear to be supporting Baptist views, rather a biblical viewpoint - and nothing else.


We, as Christians, are at a disadvantage in the age we live in. Error slipped into the Church years ago, and many seekers assume that these churches have sound doctrine. Some in Protestant leadership have pointed out movements that have been heretical, yet there really wasn't much done to prevent the spread of error.

For example, the Mormons were persecuted when their practices and beliefs first surfaced, yet there was little done to keep their heretical practices and beliefs from spreading. Many unknowingly step into a church like this, and don't learn until years later what they were involved in. Some will never learn.

I view the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements in the same way. The Protestant Church could do little to prevent the spreading of what these movements demonstrated as the "gifts of the Spirit." Thus in our time, they have been accepted as a mainline denomination - with the television media portraying them as such. Seekers, not knowing the traditional exegesis of scripture, have accepted their teaching based upon the modern view of these verses that support gifts.

The Charismatic and Pentecostal churches, for the most part, have a pure message of salvation in Jesus alone - believing in the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and that Jesus is the only way to heaven. They are known for their praise and worship, signs and miracles, and the way the leadership ministers to each believer. But something stinks in the basement - and very few want to learn its source. Very few want to abandon this movement because of the few flaws in their beliefs. After this study, I hope that you will see that there are more than just a few flaws, and that Satan is using the New Apostolic Reformation as a tool to bring about ecumenism, and surrender the Church to the Antichrist's new world order system.

"The New Apostolic Reformation is a movement in Protestant Christianity largely associated with the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements. The basic thesis asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle. The New Apostolic Reformation has Pentecostal and Charismatic origins, with those traditions' interpretations of the nature of the ongoing ministry of the Holy Spirit within a believer. Unlike mainstream Protestant Christianity, these include the performance of miracles (such as healing), prophecy and the direct revelation of Christ to each believer.

Although the movement regards the Church as the true body of saved believers, as most Evangelical Protestants do, it differs from the broader Protestant tradition in its view on the nature of church leadership, specifically the doctrine of Five-Fold Ministry, which is based upon a non-traditional interpretation of Ephesians 4:11." [1]​
The Beliefs of the New Apostolic Reformers
1) Christian believers can take down demonic territorial spirits.
2) The Church will bring in the Jesus' earthly Kingdom by force, and Jesus will not return until the New Apostolic Reformationists do this. They will return true believers to Paradise.
3) The Church will take control of the media, the entertainment industry, and all of society, because they will rule. They will take position in all high offices and places. (7 Mountains Mandate)
4) The believe in Dominion/Kingdom Now Theology. The Dominion Mandate.
5) They seeks to place the government of the Church to individuals. They believe that there should be local offices of apostles and prophets over certain parts of the country and world.
6) Their focus will be concentrated on new levels of revelation and spiritual authority, healing, and deliverance. This concept of "new levels" is a Gnostic viewpoint. [2 - Jan Markell interview]

I want to suggest that most people have not heard of Dominion/Kingdom Now Theology. Even many Christians who attend apostolic-prophetic churches are unaware of the movement’s aberrant teachings, which are often introduced through the “back door” of churches that claim to have standard evangelical statements of faith. The teachings seem purely innocent and obscure, especially when you hear that Christians will "take the world for Christ" - because we know it is unlikely. But there are people who believe this can happen, they believe the above teachings, and they have a plan.


cont......

http://fanaticforjesus.blogspot.com/2010/07/new-apostolic-reformation.html
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#75
C. [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]Peter Wagner: [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]"The New Apostolic Reformation is an extraordinary work of the Holy Spirit that is changing the shape of Christianity globally. It is truly a new day! The Church is changing. New names! New methods! New worship expressions! The Lord is establishing the foundations of the Church for the new millennium. This foundation is built upon apostles and prophets. Apostles execute and establish God's plan on the earth. The time to convene a conference of the different apostolic prophetic streams across this nation is now! This conference will cause the Body to understand God's 'new' order for this coming era." (From the advertising brochure for the National Apostolic-Prophetic Conference, Christian Outreach Centre, Mansfield, Brisbane, Australia. Feb. 2000.)[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2]Cindy Jacobs[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2]Generals of Intercession[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]Cindy Jacobs is President and Co-founder of Generals of Intercessions, an organization devoted to training in militant prayer and spiritual warfare techniques, based in Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA. Along with such false teachers as Chuck Pierce, Dutch Sheets, Mike Bickle and Tommy Tenney, Cindy Jacobs is a Prophetic Elder in C. Peter Wagner's Apostolic Council of Prophetic Elders. This group believes in the restoration of the apostolic ministry. [/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]Jacob's was also involved in the Argentinian "revival" with Ed Silvoso, which was one of the triggers for the "Toronto Blessing" and "Pensacola Outpouring". The articles linked below give some idea of the level of deception this lady is has opened herself to and which she is helping to spread through the congregations of the professing churches. [/SIZE][/FONT]

George Otis Jr.
And The Transformations Video

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=+2]G[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]eorge Otis Jr.: [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]“God has positionally sanctified you and that you're standing in Christ is something that is different from your actual state… Christ has not redeemed us by giving His life as a ransom for our sins in order that He might release us. If we accept the premise that Jesus literally purchased… our salvation with His blood… and He paid the Father… then this approach, first of all portrays God the Father as being vindictive and blood-thirsty and totally incompatible with biblical forgiveness.” (Lectures given to YWAM in Tacoma on Moral Government Theology.)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT]“Christ has not redeemed us by giving His life as a ransom for our sins in order that He might release us. God never kept man captive in sin. The truth is Christ paid no man’s debt.” (Lectures given to YWAM in Tacoma on Moral Government Theology.)[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT]Apostles Prophets and Transformations[/FONT][/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#76
The one constant that Ive read in the scriptures is that one cannot will anything on their own.
Thats why when I see some one call many up, and then stand as they appear to bring the Holy Spirit into thier self, one has to see this is not of God.
Scripture states we cannot will the Holy Spirit.
This means that we are subject to the will of God in the workings of the Holy Spirit.
The times Ive know this gift given, were in a moment, and the understanding, word, or knowladge spoke from me with out my own thinking.
I only know that these were given in Jesus, as this person shared or asked for prayers.
Quite honestly, I later thought, I cannot believe I said that!
It is not about what one wants, wills or knows.
All is about one looking to Jesus, it is in Jesus that the will of God is given through the Holy Spirit.
Not about us.
All we can do is keep our eyes on Jesus, it is while looking at Jesus that He will show what is given.
If ones eyes are directed anywhere else, then it cannot be from Him.

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

thank you pickles. the Holy Spirit LIVES, Heals and does miracles by GOD's promptings and purpose NOT man's and any person who claims to "call up the Holy Spirit" is not calling upon the God of the Bible but Satanic forces because GOD can not be controlled by prayers, rituals or ceremony.

The spiritual gifts are still active but they are not possession any more then YOUR Body is your possession. they are dedicated for the use of GOD, not self inflated actions and such. Money is the root of many many evils in this world.


God answers and listens to the prayers of the righteous because He LOVES us not because we deserve it or earn the right by show or flash.(we are righteous through the blood of Jesus not by our own actions) God is near the broken hearted and comforts those who mourn. He teaches the humble and makes foolish the scholars and wisemen who promote knowledge that wars against God's Holy Word. Praise God for His Grace and Mercy and Love.

Our Father Who Art in Heaven Hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us today our daily bread, forgive us our trespass as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom the power and the Glory for ever and ever. Amen
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#77
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#78
A Biblically based commentary on current issues that impact you

The Roots and Fruits of the New Apostolic Reformation
by Bob DeWaay

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“So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone” (Ephesians 2:19, 20).


This article explores the idea of apostles in the church throughout church history. In it I will show that the restoration/Latter Rain idea that fuels the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is unbiblical and dangerous to the well-being of Christians who become part of it. First we will review how the early church understood apostles in church history. Then we will examine the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching about apostolic authority. From there we will examine the ideas of a 17th-century mystic given new life in the Latter Rain movement, and now the NAR.


At a 1996 Fuller Seminary conference hosted by C. Peter Wagner, a movement that Wagner previously labeled “post-denominational” became the New Apostolic Reformation.1 Besides Wagner himself is another person prominent in the movement—Bill Hamon—who is strongly endorsed by Wagner. Hamon is important, as we will see, because his ministry goes all the way back to the early 1950’s and began on the heels of the Latter Rain Movement.
How the Early Church Understood Apostles



In 97 AD, Clement of Rome wrote an epistle to the church at Corinth. The epistle provides solid evidence that the early church did not believe that the apostles had successors or that new apostles were needed in order to provide direction to the church. At issue was the fact that certain individuals in Corinth challenged the duly constituted elders’ authority; Clement wrote to correct them. Clement’s testimony is remarkable because he likely was the Clement mentioned in Philippians 4:3, whom Paul called a “fellow worker.” Clement mentions the apostles in this passage:


The apostles have preached the Gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments, then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe.2

Although the Roman Catholic Church claims that Clement himself was an apostle of Christ in succession from Peter, Clement claimed no such title and neither did he acknowledge any apostles but the true apostles—the ones Christ appointed personally. What we will see from Clement is that the apostles appointed overseers and elders (the same group), and these were the authorities in the local church. The apostle Paul had given instructions on the qualifications and roles of elders (Acts 20:28 - 31; Titus 1:5-9; 1Timothy 3:1 - 7) and provided for their continuation (2Timothy 2:2). Clement goes on to discuss this:


Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry. We are of opinion, therefore, that those appointed by them, or afterwards by other eminent men, with the consent of the whole Church, and who have blamelessly served the flock of Christ in a humble, peaceable, and disinterested spirit, and have for a long time possessed the good opinion of all, cannot be justly dismissed from the ministry. For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties. Blessed are those presbyters who, having finished their course before now, have obtained a fruitful and perfect departure [from this world]; for they have no fear lest any one deprive them of the place now appointed them.3

Clement did not claim the apostolic authority to intervene, but rather pointed to elders who were appointed according to the standards of the Biblical apostles. It is noteworthy that he used the terms “episcopate” and “presbyters” interchangeably for the same people. Soon the church would develop “bishops” over cities (the “monepiscopate” or single bishop over a city), which was an innovation not endorsed by the Biblical apostles. However, Clement, who had been an associate of Paul, used episkopos (overseers or bishops – KJV) and presbuteros (elders) to describe the same group of people. This is precisely what Paul did in Acts 20:17, 28 when he called the elders together and described them as “overseers.”


By 97 AD, the authorities in the church were not apostles and prophets, but elders who had been appointed according to the standards lain down by the apostles. Those who claim that God always intended there to be authoritative apostles in the church who give binding revelation ignore the fact that the apostles themselves never anticipated that they would have successors and gave no instructions for the qualifications of any such successors. But they did provide qualifications for elders, and these would apply to future generations. Sadly, the fact that there are no qualifications for apostles (other than that they must have seen the risen Lord and have been appointed directly by Him – which qualifications the NAR apostles ignore or reject) has opened to the door the proliferation of apostles around the world, many of whom claim apostolic status even though they do not even have the necessary qualifications to be elders in a local church.

cont...........
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#79
The Roman Catholic Church’s Apostles



As church history progressed, the understanding of church authority as seen in the days of Clement of Rome disappeared very quickly in favor of the monepiscopate and progressed from that unbiblical innovation to the primacy of the Bishop of Rome. This idea eventually led to the Papacy. Later in church history, and in amazing irony, the Roman Catholic Church claimed that Clement was a successor of Peter and had apostolic status. This travesty dishonors the very teachings of Clement himself who taught no such thing.

Roman Catholic innovation removed the status of the Biblical apostles as the foundation of the church4 and replaced it with a succession of apostles who claimed the liberty to give new, binding revelation to the church. Here is how the Roman Catholic Church explains its own position:


We teach and define that it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable.5 (Catholic Encyclopedia)​

It is ironic that C. Peter Wagner claims we need restored apostles when there have been claimants to the office of apostle going back over 1,000 years. Wagner acknowledges this:


n certain segments of the Church the office of apostle has, indeed, been recognized throughout the past two millennia. The Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican or Episcopal Church and many denominations that have actually incorporated “apostolic” into their name would come to mind as examples. However, just as was true of prophetic movements, the emphases of these apostolic movements had not penetrated the mainstream of what I am calling life-giving evangelical churches that are now the cutting edge of the spread of Christianity. This only began to happen in the 1990’s.6


So, with regard to having apostles Wagner sees the Roman Catholic Church not as guilty of unbiblical innovation as Luther and the other Reformers claimed, but as a positive role model for evangelicals. His new “reformation” claims to have many thousands of apostles and prophets. At least Rome put some reigns on apostles in that they only have one at a time and he speaks “ex cathedra” only occasionally. The new apostles are continually speaking new revelations from God.

cont......
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#80
The Reformation Teaches “Scripture Alone”



The Reformation rightly rejected the authority of the Pope and church tradition and returned to “scripture alone.” This was a return to the true foundation of the church, the Biblical apostles and prophets who speak to us through the Scripture. This means that the decrees of men in church history are not binding on any believer unless those decrees are valid implications and applications of Scripture. This brings up an important point mentioned in the previous issue of CIC: God only binds us to what is inerrant and infallible.7 Words from men that contain mixture and error and lack the qualities of inspired Scripture cannot be binding on the lives of believers. This truth was at the crux of the Reformation. The words of the Popes do not have this quality nor do those of latter day apostles and prophets.

cont........