Noah's Ark
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Someone who is on the same wavelength..........I have always thought it occurred at the Tower of Babel, but your reason is just as sound, perhaps more so..................I know in the 50's I was looking at a world map in grammar school and it was evedent how the lands were all separated from one land mass at some time in history.
T
I worked with multiples, MPD/DID sufferers, for several years (see my book on the subject, "The Shining Man With Hurt Hands"). I could be in conversation with one alter who would decide to go "inside," i.e. into the spiritual world, and I might not talk to that same alter again for several days. When I saw her again, I could ask her if we had been talking continually or if time had elapsed between our two conversations. Well guess what, time had not elapsed while she was inside, so in the spiritual world there is no time! In fact, time is a creation of God.
Isaiah 45:12 “I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”
The universe was not created in place, but "stretched out," and that took time. So God created time by His act of stretching out the heavens. But God exists in eternity, before He created time, in timelessness, and understanding that fact changed my whole view of the six days of creation!
Sometimes we have to stand back and look at scriptural events from God's perspective. There were no human observers at creation, only God was there. Therefore, God must have dictated the account of the six days of creation to Adam, Genesis 5:1. So was God telling man about the six "days" from His eternal perspective or from finite man's? Can't tell from text, but we should at least look at the possibility that the Lord was describing those days from His position in timelessness, in which 1,000,000,000 years are but an eye-blink.
So could creation have taken place in six 24 hour days? Of course, but as God saw those “days,” could creation have taken place over geologic ages? Of course.
What I'm getting at is this: Once we understand that God dictated the account from His eternal timelessness, it is no longer important whether the six days of creation are six 24-hour days or six geologic ages! In my opinion, neither position does damage to Scripture so I can happily worship the Lord with brethren who hold either position. <smile>
Isaiah 45:12 “I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”
The universe was not created in place, but "stretched out," and that took time. So God created time by His act of stretching out the heavens. But God exists in eternity, before He created time, in timelessness, and understanding that fact changed my whole view of the six days of creation!
Sometimes we have to stand back and look at scriptural events from God's perspective. There were no human observers at creation, only God was there. Therefore, God must have dictated the account of the six days of creation to Adam, Genesis 5:1. So was God telling man about the six "days" from His eternal perspective or from finite man's? Can't tell from text, but we should at least look at the possibility that the Lord was describing those days from His position in timelessness, in which 1,000,000,000 years are but an eye-blink.
So could creation have taken place in six 24 hour days? Of course, but as God saw those “days,” could creation have taken place over geologic ages? Of course.
What I'm getting at is this: Once we understand that God dictated the account from His eternal timelessness, it is no longer important whether the six days of creation are six 24-hour days or six geologic ages! In my opinion, neither position does damage to Scripture so I can happily worship the Lord with brethren who hold either position. <smile>
T
Yes. The Luciferian Flood is between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. l:2a. The entire globe was covered with water and seen as a chaos; vacant; waste and empty. "And darkness was on the face of the deep." (v.2a.) Then God is seen "brooding" over the face of the waters in v. 2b (He is about to do something 
.). This is not a summary of Noah's Flood.
.). This is not a summary of Noah's Flood.
Yes. The Luciferian Flood is between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. l:2a. The entire globe was covered with water and seen as a chaos; vacant; waste and empty. "And darkness was on the face of the deep." (v.2a.) Then God is seen "brooding" over the face of the waters in v. 2b (He is about to do something .). This is not a summary of Noah's Flood.
.). This is not a summary of Noah's Flood.
N
Why are we trying to prove the story of Noah and the Ark, how it was done, how we have animals in Australia, etc.? There was a show on tv, History channel I think, explaining scientifically how the flood happened, how the Red Sea was parted, etc. Why? I don't need a scientist to say it could have happened this way.... God could have flooded the entire planet because He's God. Trying to prove HOW it happened isn't necessary. God put the animals He wanted, where He wanted them, when He wanted them there. There is so much the Bible doesn't tell us about events, times, etc., because God wants to reveal things on His time schedule, not ours. If everything was there, and we could all understand it perfectly, would we need His Holy Spirit? Would we need fellowship and study and prayer? No.
The Bible isn't a book of how, Genesis isn't a book of How the earth was created but WHY it was created and by Whom it was created.
The Bible isn't a book of how, Genesis isn't a book of How the earth was created but WHY it was created and by Whom it was created.
It wasn't until Alexander the Great started marching around the world from Greece that anyone thought of questioning God, except to question how they could use what God told them. In Greece at that time, men began to question everything, and Alex thought everything about Greece was superior to anything any other part of the world had. It was the beginning of the kind of thinking that doesn't accept what God says, but asks God how God performed anything He said He did.
If God would have thought it was a good thing for us to question Him in this way, if God would have looked forward to Alexander, our bible would be filled with explanations to us of why he did what and how. Or maybe God would have two scriptures, one for learning of the spirit and the other to learn how to invent things and how God did it. It would be quite a volume, and I doubt our most advanced scientist could understand it. Could you take the spiritual out of God!
If God would have thought it was a good thing for us to question Him in this way, if God would have looked forward to Alexander, our bible would be filled with explanations to us of why he did what and how. Or maybe God would have two scriptures, one for learning of the spirit and the other to learn how to invent things and how God did it. It would be quite a volume, and I doubt our most advanced scientist could understand it. Could you take the spiritual out of God!
T
Sorry, I believe reason only takes us so far. I've heard it all before. If God's Word uses 'days', he means days as we know them, not unknown periods. God isn't the author of confusion. Evolutionary thinking has led to Christians compromising, especially on the foundational beginnings of Genesis (Chapters 1-11). Some do this unknowingly, they know nothing else. Others do know better but want to please Christians, while being seen as 'credible' by evolutionists. It just doesn't work. Evolutionary beliefs are contrary to God's Truth.
The tower of Babel (confusion) was the confounding of the languages of man so as to quell an attempt at geo-political-religious unification under one man while attempting to overthrow heaven though the tower to heaven. It was not time yet for this and a careful study of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and what Rome culminates in will reveal an ever attempted purpose by Satan to brings this to fruition and will culminate at the end of the age with the beast and his kingdom.
God has hindered it every time as it was not yet time!
God has hindered it every time as it was not yet time!
G
"
Originally Posted by Therapon
I worked with multiples, MPD/DID sufferers, for several years (see my book on the subject, "The Shining Man With Hurt Hands"). I could be in conversation with one alter who would decide to go "inside," i.e. into the spiritual world, and I might not talk to that same alter again for several days. When I saw her again, I could ask her if we had been talking continually or if time had elapsed between our two conversations. Well guess what, time had not elapsed while she was inside, so in the spiritual world there is no time! { this conclusion leaves out the possibility of external factors that might affect the perceptions of the individual alter; besides, are not angels - which are 'spiritual' creatures - "confined" by / in time? } In fact, time is a creation of God. { this is true }
Isaiah 45:12 "I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
The universe was not created in place, but "stretched out," and that took time. So God created time by His act of stretching out the heavens. { No - both time and space had to exist the 'instantaneous moment' that matter came into existence. } But God exists in eternity, before He created time, in timelessness, and understanding that fact changed my whole view of the six days of creation!
Sometimes we have to stand back and look at scriptural events from God's perspective. { Indeed! } There were no human observers at creation, only God was there. Therefore, God must have dictated the account of the six days of creation to Adam, Genesis 5:1. So was God telling man about the six "days" from His eternal perspective or from finite man's? { perspective of finite man - no doubt about it... } Can't tell from text, but we should at least look at the possibility that the Lord was describing those days from His position in timelessness, in which 1,000,000,000 years are but an eye-blink. { 'technically', this is not true - even an 'eye-blink' takes time... }
So could creation have taken place in six 24 hour days? { yes - and it did - because God said so; although, I would not be totally dogmatic about the days being [ exactly ] 24 hours - what is of the most important significance is the "evening and morning" aspect of it } Of course, but as God saw those "days,"could creation have taken place over geologic ages? { nope - a close study of the order of things as they were brought into existance tells us otherwise } Of course. { Sorry - not a chance... }
What I'm getting at is this: Once we understand that God dictated the account from His eternal timelessness, it is no longer important whether the six days of creation are six 24-hour days or six geologic ages! { Oh, but yes it is! } In my opinion, neither position does damage to Scripture { the "long" version does } so I can happily worship the Lord with brethren who hold either position. { Good. Then you will not get mad at me for disagreeing with you... } <smile>
"
From God's perspective in 'timelessness' - any and every amount of time is - well - 'timeless'. As in, no amount of time at all. To God - no amount of time is 'shorter' or 'longer' than any other. He literally "sees all time at the same time" - 'at every moment', as it were... ( except that, "every moment" is actually more like "one moment" - but, with no time at all - because, even a moment takes time... )
For some strange reason, people seem to think that the 'spiritual' realm is "separate" from the 'physical' realm. ( in the spatial sense, like they were parallel universes or some such thing ). In terms of the "space, time, and matter" physical nature of this universe -- the two "realms" are in the very same space. Only, that which is "confined" to the 'physical' realm -- simply cannot see / hear / etc. [ all of ] that which is in the 'spiritual' realm.
At some point in time, someone will no-doubt want to pull out 2 Peter 3:8...
2 Peter 3:
[SUP]8[/SUP] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The "sense and tense" of the word 'with' in this verse is one of 'judgment' and not 'perception'. Which makes sense, because God does not "perceive" a day any different than He does a thousand years. With regard to this word 'with', the verse is saying that God "considers" or "regards" a day the same as He does a thousand years - i.e., to Him, they are no different. ( "Because, He 'sees' the complete total sum of 'every moment' all at the same time - all the time." ) In a broader sense, I believe that the writer is using this statement to give a contextual "heads-up" clue to the reader.
Originally Posted by Therapon
I worked with multiples, MPD/DID sufferers, for several years (see my book on the subject, "The Shining Man With Hurt Hands"). I could be in conversation with one alter who would decide to go "inside," i.e. into the spiritual world, and I might not talk to that same alter again for several days. When I saw her again, I could ask her if we had been talking continually or if time had elapsed between our two conversations. Well guess what, time had not elapsed while she was inside, so in the spiritual world there is no time! { this conclusion leaves out the possibility of external factors that might affect the perceptions of the individual alter; besides, are not angels - which are 'spiritual' creatures - "confined" by / in time? } In fact, time is a creation of God. { this is true }
Isaiah 45:12 "I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
The universe was not created in place, but "stretched out," and that took time. So God created time by His act of stretching out the heavens. { No - both time and space had to exist the 'instantaneous moment' that matter came into existence. } But God exists in eternity, before He created time, in timelessness, and understanding that fact changed my whole view of the six days of creation!
Sometimes we have to stand back and look at scriptural events from God's perspective. { Indeed! } There were no human observers at creation, only God was there. Therefore, God must have dictated the account of the six days of creation to Adam, Genesis 5:1. So was God telling man about the six "days" from His eternal perspective or from finite man's? { perspective of finite man - no doubt about it... } Can't tell from text, but we should at least look at the possibility that the Lord was describing those days from His position in timelessness, in which 1,000,000,000 years are but an eye-blink. { 'technically', this is not true - even an 'eye-blink' takes time... }
So could creation have taken place in six 24 hour days? { yes - and it did - because God said so; although, I would not be totally dogmatic about the days being [ exactly ] 24 hours - what is of the most important significance is the "evening and morning" aspect of it } Of course, but as God saw those "days,"could creation have taken place over geologic ages? { nope - a close study of the order of things as they were brought into existance tells us otherwise } Of course. { Sorry - not a chance... }
What I'm getting at is this: Once we understand that God dictated the account from His eternal timelessness, it is no longer important whether the six days of creation are six 24-hour days or six geologic ages! { Oh, but yes it is! } In my opinion, neither position does damage to Scripture { the "long" version does } so I can happily worship the Lord with brethren who hold either position. { Good. Then you will not get mad at me for disagreeing with you...
} <smile>"
From God's perspective in 'timelessness' - any and every amount of time is - well - 'timeless'. As in, no amount of time at all. To God - no amount of time is 'shorter' or 'longer' than any other. He literally "sees all time at the same time" - 'at every moment', as it were... ( except that, "every moment" is actually more like "one moment" - but, with no time at all - because, even a moment takes time...
)For some strange reason, people seem to think that the 'spiritual' realm is "separate" from the 'physical' realm. ( in the spatial sense, like they were parallel universes or some such thing ). In terms of the "space, time, and matter" physical nature of this universe -- the two "realms" are in the very same space. Only, that which is "confined" to the 'physical' realm -- simply cannot see / hear / etc. [ all of ] that which is in the 'spiritual' realm.
At some point in time, someone will no-doubt want to pull out 2 Peter 3:8...
2 Peter 3:
[SUP]8[/SUP] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The "sense and tense" of the word 'with' in this verse is one of 'judgment' and not 'perception'. Which makes sense, because God does not "perceive" a day any different than He does a thousand years. With regard to this word 'with', the verse is saying that God "considers" or "regards" a day the same as He does a thousand years - i.e., to Him, they are no different. ( "Because, He 'sees' the complete total sum of 'every moment' all at the same time - all the time." ) In a broader sense, I believe that the writer is using this statement to give a contextual "heads-up" clue to the reader.
G
Yes. The Luciferian Flood is between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. l:2a. The entire globe was covered with water and seen as a chaos; vacant; waste and empty. "And darkness was on the face of the deep." (v.2a.) Then God is seen "brooding" over the face of the waters in v. 2b (He is about to do something .). This is not a summary of Noah's Flood.
.). This is not a summary of Noah's Flood.
There is no "flood" associated with Genesis 1:1-2. What exactly was flooded? There was nothing but water. There was no land...
( not to mention, there was no sun or moon or stars either )
T
From His eternal perspective outside of time, God could have still seen the beginning and end of each geologic period as the evening and morning of that period. Many earnest Christians so believe.
But brother, I think you misunderstand the purpose of the post. Our educational system, television, books and periodicals and even some churches believe the universe to be many billions of years old. As a result, they question the validity of the creation account. I was merely presenting a framework by which brethren of that doctrinal persuasion could still see the Bible as true history, despite decades of astrophysical, geological and paleontological indoctrination.
Peace brother, I’m not going off into liberal heresy. <grin>
But brother, I think you misunderstand the purpose of the post. Our educational system, television, books and periodicals and even some churches believe the universe to be many billions of years old. As a result, they question the validity of the creation account. I was merely presenting a framework by which brethren of that doctrinal persuasion could still see the Bible as true history, despite decades of astrophysical, geological and paleontological indoctrination.
Peace brother, I’m not going off into liberal heresy. <grin>
God created all things. If he is able to have the earth turn in the opposite rotation, and cause the sun to stand still, then he is able to produce oxygen where ever, and whenever he wants.
2 Kings 20:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.
Joshua 10:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
Matthew 9:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
2 Kings 20:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.
Joshua 10:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
Matthew 9:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
O
I love this topic, please check out Ron Wyatt's website. He did find the Ark. It is AMAZING. This will go against the current so called Christian Creationists. They know Ron but refuse to believe.
Ron has died but the evidence and pictures are worth a look. Also he did exploring in the Red Sea and discovered where the crossing took place. He found chariot wheels and everything. Really neat stuff. BTW, they can tell the age of wheels by the amount of spokes.
Wyatt archaeological Research Official Site
Ron has died but the evidence and pictures are worth a look. Also he did exploring in the Red Sea and discovered where the crossing took place. He found chariot wheels and everything. Really neat stuff. BTW, they can tell the age of wheels by the amount of spokes.
Wyatt archaeological Research Official Site