Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

So what is the difference between the term 'believe' and 'faith' since many consider the two words to have the same meaning?

I can believe somene can do something, yet when push comes to shove, I would not put my life in their hands,

faith is an assurance in someone or something, and you easily place your life in their r hands

 

[followjesus]

nope, that is not what Paul said, he said the moment you have faith you ar sealed until day of redemption.

Plus, you do not lose far the in people unless they change, and they lose your confidence. Is God someone people lose confidence in? If he is, what dwe es that say about God?

define faith. and the same paul also said alot more things you should believe them all and put them together rather than trying to base everything on a few verses. paul said this in the same letter first he writes this

ephesians 1:13-14 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

then the major issue with the gog is you believe the above, but the exact same paul, in the exact same letter after He says the above and alot more about Grace, then says this which you all refuse to acknowledge

ephesians 5:4-7 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."


thats the gog omission you will believe One verse because it seems conditionless when its plucked out of the rest, but the same letter to the same church, the same saved by grace church, from the same apostle when you see that repentance is 100 percent required and that Gods wrath is coming for the disobedient and unrepentant then all the sudden naw thats not a part of anything he said this other thing, that repentance and obedience stuff.....thats the Law, or thats not reallt the gog. thats why you all need to part from that poisonous doctrine, it causes those speacial goggles to be a blinbdfold and rather than believeing God, your trust is in the author of whatever gog pastors book you have read and trust in.

there is no reason to believe One verse and omit the other, its the same paul to the same believing church, saying both things. you cant change this its in all His letters because its the structure of the Gospel spoken By Jesus. theres Grace, but theres also what you guys all need to believe about repenting and righteousness and understanding that yes, salvation requires of you, if the spirit is in you that wont be a problem. you have to believe whats there not what someone told you applies you gotta believe all the verses. this is Kinda what you guys do

john 8:11 "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: <<< this you believe,.... but this you refuse to believe>>>> go, and sin no more."

john 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole:<<< this you embrace , but this you refuse>>>> sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.


thats what that gog is it teaches you to "divide" what you dont like to hear from your belief yet all of it is Gods Word. Gotta watch out for false doctrine its powerful to blind to truth

 

[Magenta]

Hi Zmouth...Having Faith is believing in something you cannot see, hope this is correct...xox...

We believe based on evidence though, and personal empirical experiences. When Paul gives a descriptor of faith, it seems to me he is talking about the future, at least as much as the past. We believe God will keep His promises based on His past performance. We know He is reliable, faithful, and true. We believe Jesus will return and this world will be restored, and we will finally be free from sin. We have the testimony of Scripture and we accept that on faith, also. So many people come against what the Bible teaches, and the history put forth, and yet even atheistic historians do not deny the historicity of Jesus Christ. That is one way you can know you are dealing with someone who is really "out there" in their denial of the fact that Jesus truly walked this world, aside from what it means and Who He is in terms of His Divinity. Even people who call themselves Christian deny the plain teaching of Scripture that Jesus is God. The main point of our faith is the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, for the wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid that price by fulfilling the requirements of the law and then offering Himself as a ransom for many, for there is no remission/forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. He did die for the sins of the whole world, but sadly not all will come to belief. The natural man does not accept the Spiritual things of God...

 

[Rosemaryx]

We believe based on evidence though, and personal empirical experiences. When Paul gives a descriptor of faith, it seems to me he is talking about the future, at least as much as the past. We believe God will keep His promises based on His past performance. We know He is reliable, faithful, and true. We believe Jesus will return and this world will be restored, and we will finally be free from sin. We have the testimony of Scripture and we accept that on faith, also. So many people come against what the Bible teaches, and the history put forth, and yet even atheistic historians do not deny the historicity of Jesus Christ. That is one way you can know you are dealing with someone who is really "out there" in their denial of the fact that Jesus truly walked this world, aside from what it means and Who He is in terms of His Divinity. Even people who call themselves Christian deny the plain teaching of Scripture that Jesus is God. The main point of our faith is the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, for the wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid that price by fulfilling the requirements of the law and then offering Himself as a ransom for many, for there is no remission/forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. He did die for the sins of the whole world, but sadly not all will come to belief. The natural man does not accept the Spiritual things of God...

Totally agree...I was kind of looking at the promises of God that have not happened yet...I believe every word my Lord Jesus spoke, my Faith is in the things to come that have not passed yet, my Faith is in the word of past, present and future...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

define faith. and the same paul also said alot more things you should believe them all and put them together rather than trying to base everything on a few verses. paul said this in the same letter first he writes this

ephesians 1:13-14 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

then the major issue with the gog is you believe the above, but the exact same paul, in the exact same letter after He says the above and alot more about Grace, then says this which you all refuse to acknowledge

ephesians 5:4-7 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."


thats the gog omission you will believe One verse because it seems conditionless when its plucked out of the rest, but the same letter to the same church, the same saved by grace church, from the same apostle when you see that repentance is 100 percent required and that Gods wrath is coming for the disobedient and unrepentant then all the sudden naw thats not a part of anything he said this other thing, that repentance and obedience stuff.....thats the Law, or thats not reallt the gog. thats why you all need to part from that poisonous doctrine, it causes those speacial goggles to be a blinbdfold and rather than believeing God, your trust is in the author of whatever gog pastors book you have read and trust in.

there is no reason to believe One verse and omit the other, its the same paul to the same believing church, saying both things. you cant change this its in all His letters because its the structure of the Gospel spoken By Jesus. theres Grace, but theres also what you guys all need to believe about repenting and righteousness and understanding that yes, salvation requires of you, if the spirit is in you that wont be a problem. you have to believe whats there not what someone told you applies you gotta believe all the verses. this is Kinda what you guys do

john 8:11 "She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: <<< this you believe,.... but this you refuse to believe>>>> go, and sin no more."

john 5:14 "Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole:<<< this you embrace , but this you refuse>>>> sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.


thats what that gog is it teaches you to "divide" what you dont like to hear from your belief yet all of it is Gods Word. Gotta watch out for false doctrine its powerful to blind to truth

If what you say is true, Paul contradicted himself, and is. Not trustworthy, what he said in Ephesians 1 would be meaningless, and all of Paul's letters thus become something to not have any faith in,

you may believe in paul, but you could never trust (have faith) in what he said.

 

[Zmouth]

Hi Zmouth...Having Faith is believing in something you cannot see, hope this is correct...xox...

I can believe somene can do something, yet when push comes to shove, I would not put my life in their hands,

faith is an assurance in someone or something, and you easily place your life in their r hands

Faith is the Word that the LORD has placed in you.

And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart. Jer 24:7

All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. Gen 7:22
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Eccl 12:7

 

[mailmandan]

Ephesians 4:30 - "sealed" - a sign of ownership, was written to a certain group of people meeting a certain condition, that condition seen in Ephesians 1:1 - To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus." Those who stay faithful to end - stay sealed to the end.

Show me in the Bible where it says believers become "UN-sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Believers are described as faithful and are sealed UNTO/FOR the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
<1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!

 

[followjesus]

If what you say is true, Paul contradicted himself, and is. Not trustworthy, what he said in Ephesians 1 would be meaningless, and all of Paul's letters thus become something to not have any faith in,

you may believe in paul, but you could never trust (have faith) in what he said.

huh? lol nice avoidance. what are you saying that pauls letters arent authentic now? or some " judaiazer" added the repentance and obedience stuff in later? honestly explain to me why part of pauls letters are true, but the rest is not? please do explain why we shouldnt take them all as the same word to the same church?

your answer here is a perfect example of what the gog does to a mind. youve been convinced to only accept part and to refuse the rest. would you like me to give you the same example of paul talking about Grace and then saying the same thing about repentance and obedience from a few other letters? the issue is you have followed a mans definition of Grace and telling you if you have to do anything well then its just not by grace. the man made that doctrine because he was smart wenough to know " people will buy this book and ill become rich from them buying it" its not the truth though is the issue.

until we first believe about repentance and righteousness, it will never ever manifest because sinners, are never going to want to do those things, unless they understand that God said that. its the devils way from the start " did God really say you must not?...surely you will not die, pshhh God knows it will make you like him...go ahead and eat that fruit its ok its good for ya" thats what that doctrine is it omits from your belief, the truth about right and wrong what God accepts and what He will never accept. its void of the truth like any false doctrine, it cant agree with the truth. so again how does one place in pauls letter over rule the rest when its all written to the Church? Heres another example of what "pauls" gospel declares

romans 2:5-11 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.

another clear thing that the gog cant and refuses to acknowledge same romans letter that speaks the rest yet the gog teaches christians will never face judgement for thier actions. and even if they are it doesnt affect salvation well it seems like it does pretty clearly there One group who does good and continues in those things is given eternal Life, the other group who contends with the truth and refuses to obey God, they are given wrath and indignation all based on thier deeds not what they believed, but what they believed enough to do, or not do. clearly thats dealing with salvation.

so by what reason do we just ignore all the things paul wrote of like this which again is nearly every letter. another example

2 thessolonians 1:8-9 " "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"

again plainly dealing with eternal Punishment in flaming fire for those who refuse obedience. written once again to Christians, by an apostle of Jesus Christ, sent with the gospel. how do you guys get around thios stuff and justify refusing to believe the things in the same letters, plainly set forth by paul? its simply because that doctrine is where your faith is and its taught you to never accept the Conditions made By Jesus Christ, not by judaiazers or anyone else but Jesus whom you call Lord. you will lift paul up when He says " saved by Grace" yet when He warns of repentance and obedience and tells you press on, run the race, labor for God out to death the deeds of the flesh, live upright and Godly in this present world,,,,,,then all the sudden pauls preaching Law? or His letters arent valid.

just as a person who cares friend, you should examine that gog against what the Bible actually says and refuse to listen to those telling you to ingore what they say isnt for christians every word in pauls letters and the epistles of the rest of the apostles, are for the Church they are letters sent to the Church. by the Leaders of the church who were commissioned to carry the truth to the world.

 

[Seohce]

Say something with value...this is nothing more that your bias ignorance.....here let me post my statement again.....maybe you can address it instead of writing a book that states nothing...for the record......works DO NOT SAVE, KEEP SAVED, FINISH OFF SALVATION <--Galatians 1 and 3 ...........

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

A brief examination will reveal there are a some that just seem to think Jesus is weak and cannot keep his promises.....the God of heaven needs our help to keep his word and his cross, blood and imputed righteousness are neat little tricks that do not work........

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Now the bolded above proves that those who belong to the body of Christ who received the HOLY SPIRIT thru FAITH(gal 3:14) which comes from HEARING the WORD OF TRUTH through a PREACHER(rom 10:8-17), the GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.(eph 1:13), were GIVEN spiritual gifts for them to be able to do different kinds of service and works thru the LEADING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Romans 8:14 because those who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are GOD”S FELLOW WORKERS; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 14:10-13 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, IT IS THE FATHER LIVING IN ME WHO IS DOING HIS WORK. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the EVIDENCE OF THE MIRACLES(works) themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do EVEN GREATER THINGS THAN THESE, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do YOU WILL SAVE BOTH YOURSELF AND YOUR HEARERS.

Now the point is, those who truly belong/part of the Body of Christ(the Church) are the ones doing His works of salvation here on earth under the supervision of the Holy Spirit.

You would not understand this unless you have the Holy Spirit in you.

FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE…

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

NOW ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE THE CHALLENGE OR ARE YOU SO SELF-CENTERED, SELFISH,GREEDY, HYPOCRITE AND A LIAR.

IT’S UP TO YOU TO PROVE WHO YOU REALLY ARE AND THE KIND OF FAITH YOU PROFFESS.

Is obedience and love for God and your neighbor necessary for salvation? Are they not WORKS?

 

[mailmandan]

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous. James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith "in Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*

 

[eternally-gratefull]

huh? lol nice avoidance. what are you saying that pauls letters arent authentic now? or some " judaiazer" added the repentance and obedience stuff in later? honestly explain to me why part of pauls letters are true, but the rest is not? please do explain why we shouldnt take them all as the same word to the same church?

your answer here is a perfect example of what the gog does to a mind. youve been convinced to only accept part and to refuse the rest. would you like me to give you the same example of paul talking about Grace and then saying the same thing about repentance and obedience from a few other letters? the issue is you have followed a mans definition of Grace and telling you if you have to do anything well then its just not by grace. the man made that doctrine because he was smart wenough to know " people will buy this book and ill become rich from them buying it" its not the truth though is the issue.

until we first believe about repentance and righteousness, it will never ever manifest because sinners, are never going to want to do those things, unless they understand that God said that. its the devils way from the start " did God really say you must not?...surely you will not die, pshhh God knows it will make you like him...go ahead and eat that fruit its ok its good for ya" thats what that doctrine is it omits from your belief, the truth about right and wrong what God accepts and what He will never accept. its void of the truth like any false doctrine, it cant agree with the truth. so again how does one place in pauls letter over rule the rest when its all written to the Church? Heres another example of what "pauls" gospel declares

romans 2:5-11 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.

another clear thing that the gog cant and refuses to acknowledge same romans letter that speaks the rest yet the gog teaches christians will never face judgement for thier actions. and even if they are it doesnt affect salvation well it seems like it does pretty clearly there One group who does good and continues in those things is given eternal Life, the other group who contends with the truth and refuses to obey God, they are given wrath and indignation all based on thier deeds not what they believed, but what they believed enough to do, or not do. clearly thats dealing with salvation.

so by what reason do we just ignore all the things paul wrote of like this which again is nearly every letter. another example

2 thessolonians 1:8-9 " "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"

again plainly dealing with eternal Punishment in flaming fire for those who refuse obedience. written once again to Christians, by an apostle of Jesus Christ, sent with the gospel. how do you guys get around thios stuff and justify refusing to believe the things in the same letters, plainly set forth by paul? its simply because that doctrine is where your faith is and its taught you to never accept the Conditions made By Jesus Christ, not by judaiazers or anyone else but Jesus whom you call Lord. you will lift paul up when He says " saved by Grace" yet when He warns of repentance and obedience and tells you press on, run the race, labor for God out to death the deeds of the flesh, live upright and Godly in this present world,,,,,,then all the sudden pauls preaching Law? or His letters arent valid.

just as a person who cares friend, you should examine that gog against what the Bible actually says and refuse to listen to those telling you to ingore what they say isnt for christians every word in pauls letters and the epistles of the rest of the apostles, are for the Church they are letters sent to the Church. by the Leaders of the church who were commissioned to carry the truth to the world.

Excuse me, but your the one who said Paul's letters are not authentic, your claiming what he said in Eph 1 is not true,

thanks, but I will take Paul's words over yours,

i will trust in God, you continue to trust in yourself, and your ability to do what you think needs done.

 

[terry_newyork_usa]

Show me where it CAN'T be unsealed. Rev. 3:5 - your name can be erased from the Book of Life, so why can't it be unsealed? A “seal” is not permanent by any means, just refer to Daniel 12:9, Revelation 5:9, Revelation 6:1 and Revelation 20:3,7. In all cases, the seal was broken and unsealed by God Himself.

Show me in the Bible where it says believers become "UN-sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Believers are described as faithful and are sealed UNTO/FOR the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
<1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God!

 

[mailmandan]

Show me where it CAN'T be unsealed. Rev. 3:5 - your name can be erased from the Book of Life, so why can't it be unsealed? A “seal” is not permanent by any means, just refer to Daniel 12:9, Revelation 5:9, Revelation 6:1 and Revelation 20:3,7. In all cases, the seal was broken and unsealed by God Himself.

I already showed you in post #21627. You still have not shown me the words "UN-sealed" in the Bible.

In regards to Revelation 3:5 - "He who overcomes. . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

*All genuine believers are "overcomers!" Praise God!

Certain people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it like this: "If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!"

But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

 

[followjesus]

We believe based on evidence though, and personal empirical experiences. When Paul gives a descriptor of faith, it seems to me he is talking about the future, at least as much as the past. We believe God will keep His promises based on His past performance. We know He is reliable, faithful, and true. We believe Jesus will return and this world will be restored, and we will finally be free from sin. We have the testimony of Scripture and we accept that on faith, also. So many people come against what the Bible teaches, and the history put forth, and yet even atheistic historians do not deny the historicity of Jesus Christ. That is one way you can know you are dealing with someone who is really "out there" in their denial of the fact that Jesus truly walked this world, aside from what it means and Who He is in terms of His Divinity. Even people who call themselves Christian deny the plain teaching of Scripture that Jesus is God. The main point of our faith is the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, for the wages of sin is death, and Jesus paid that price by fulfilling the requirements of the law and then offering Himself as a ransom for many, for there is no remission/forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood. He did die for the sins of the whole world, but sadly not all will come to belief. The natural man does not accept the Spiritual things of God...

Magenta,

Jesus is God, in the same way that you are your Father. hear me out.

" In the beginning was magenta, she was with her father and was Her father, the same magents was with her father in the beginning" Magenta came out from Her father, she is One with her father by Her fathers Life in Her. Magenta is an extension of Her Fathers life. before she was Born, she was Her father, she was in him part of His being......But when magenta is Born, while she remains united as One by spirit with Her Father, Magents is Now recognized as Her Fathers Daughter. No one sees magenta and says theres magentas Father, instead they say theres Magenta, the daughter of Her Father"

thats what you are seeing in the Word.

in the Beginning was the word, He was with God in the beginning, he was God, the same was with God in the beginning........and the word was made flesh and made His dwelling among us, and we have seen HIS glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father"

what im saying is Jesus is the Son of God there is no other correct belief about Jesus. was with God was part of Gods Being, but when the Holy spirit placed Him in the womb of mary and He is Born, Jesus becomes the Son of God, we dont then say Jesus is the Father, He is One with the Father like you are one with yours. only imagine your father is perfect and you are born exactly like Him. the Bible is 100 percent about the only begotten Son of God, sent into the world by God to save those who will believe that God sent His Only begotten Son.


So in that way yes, Jesus is God manifest in the Flesh, but when a Son is Born they are always thier parents manifest in the flesh. they carry the life of thier parents in them so they are one with thier parent, and thier parents are One with them. the Gospel isnt about Our holy God who is spirit dying, its about Him having a Son and giving Him all things commiting them ointo His hands, and then doing what had to be done in order to redeem us to God. Jesus is the Only begotten Son of God, that statement Means that He is God expressed as a man. but theres a reason that Jesus continually referenced Himself and His Father and why all the apostles speak of One God, and also One Lord and Christ. God works through the Christ His Son. thats Who Jesus is the Son of God, the promised messiah, the Only begotten of God. the story isnt that God came and was crucified but that He had a Son whom he sacrificed for our salvation.


so can I ask you do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God>? knowing this

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


God sent His Son thats the theme of the Bible. to say Jesus is God, is Like saying you are your Father. its true in a way, at the same time you are your Fathers Child, thats Who Jesus is and what the Christian Faith requires to believe that Jesus Christ is the Only begotten Son of God. we have to accept God has One begotten Son that He sent to be the savior of the World. it doesnt mean Jesus isnt divine, He is the Son of God of Course He is divine but God is Greater because He is the Father and Jesus had no problem with that truth.

God cannot be temted, Jesus was, God cannot die, Jesus surely did, God is not a man, Jesus was Born a man sent By God, God has no God, Jesus acknowledged God is His God and Father. all through the rest there are always 2 biengs reco=gnized its always God the Father and Jesus sitting at His right Hand One by the spirit because Jesus is His Son but there is Father and Son.

So sure magents in this way "Jesus is God" salvation comes from God through His one and Only begotten Son however and thats what all christians have to believe.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I already showed you in post #21627. You still have not shown me the words "UN-sealed" in the Bible.

In regards to Revelation 3:5 - "He who overcomes. . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

*All genuine believers are "overcomers!" Praise God!

Certain people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it like this: "If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!"

But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

amen, as Paul said, we are sealed UNTIL the day of redemption, if there was anything which could cause that seal to be broken, he would have warned us right then and there so there was no question.

 

[followjesus]

Excuse me, but your the one who said Paul's letters are not authentic, your claiming what he said in Eph 1 is not true,

thanks, but I will take Paul's words over yours,

i will trust in God, you continue to trust in yourself, and your ability to do what you think needs done.

lol nice circle again no ive never in my life said any word in the bible isnt true, thats what you are doing. you cant reconcile 1 woith the other. both statements by paul are true and thats How you are supposed to interpret Grace, not unconditional theres far too much of the other stuff you are following an interpretation of man rather than God. when your belief has to omit so much its not the bible that isnt right it means you have to reconcile those two things and understand them that way. there is plenty of Grace to save, and there is also much for you to do if you have the spirirt of God in you, its not beyond you anymore. paul spoke of Grace first because He was giving them the tools of Understanding to DO the things He is explaining about repentance and righteousness. i believe all of it Grace and i dont need to omit the clarity of whats required either. that stuff you dont like to Hear is salvation.


But i can see theres noithing i can say still to you you have no answer to why the gog has to omit the things in those same letters . so ill stop buggin ya. Peace to ya

 

[PHart]

If it is a work given to us from God, anything WE create is for our own self indulgence.

"10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you..." (2 Peter 1:10 NASB)

"11And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises." (Hebrews 6:11-12 NASB)

I'm confident Peter and the author of Hebrews were not telling us to be diligent to create works in order to be self-indulgent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol nice circle again no ive never in my life said any word in the bible isnt true, thats what you are doing. you cant reconcile 1 woith the other. both statements by paul are true and thats How you are supposed to interpret Grace, not unconditional theres far too much of the other stuff you are following an interpretation of man rather than God. when your belief has to omit so much its not the bible that isnt right it means you have to reconcile those two things and understand them that way. there is plenty of Grace to save, and there is also much for you to do if you have the spirirt of God in you, its not beyond you anymore. paul spoke of Grace first because He was giving them the tools of Understanding to DO the things He is explaining about repentance and righteousness. i believe all of it Grace and i dont need to omit the clarity of whats required either. that stuff you dont like to Hear is salvation.


But i can see theres noithing i can say still to you you have no answer to why the gog has to omit the things in those same letters . so ill stop buggin ya. Peace to ya

You just said the Bible is not true, you said Paul lied, deny it if you want, but I can't deny what Paul said in Eph 1.

i do not not have to omit anything in the Bible, just interpret I correctly,

You bug me? Na, your not bugging me, I just wanted you to explain why Paul lied, I see you can't so it is as I thought

 

[dcontroversal]

nope, that is not what Paul said, he said the moment you have faith you ar sealed until day of redemption.

Plus, you do not lose far the in people unless they change, and they lose your confidence. Is God someone people lose confidence in? If he is, what dwe es that say about God?

Again I will say....to believe salvation can be lost or forfeit one must say or believe...

a. Jesus will not keep his word
b. Jesus cannot finish what he started
c. Jesus is not the beginner and finisher of our faith
d. Jesus WILL forsake us
e. Something can separate us from the love of God
f. Eternal means temporary
g. We are not sealed by the Holy Spirit
h. We are not in the hand of the FATHER
I. We are not in the HAND of Christ
j. We are not kept by the power of GOD
k. God s a liar and cannot keep his word
l. God's grace does not outbound our sin
etc.......

 

[dcontroversal]

So what is the difference between the term 'believe' and 'faith' since many consider the two words to have the same meaning?

The demons BELIEVE that God is real...this does not equate to SAVING FAITH and their destiny is sealed already....redemption is NOT available unto them......!