Not By Works

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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Cuz not all people accept the free gift God offers, some would rather have dung covered candy and other false gospels.
All of Grace: C.H. Spurgeon
Sunday Morning Sermon


There can be no present salvation unless it be upon this footing—"By grace are ye saved." The works being unfinished, the salvation would be incomplete; or, the salvation being complete, the main motive of the legalist would be gone.

Salvation must be by grace. If man be lost by sin, how can he be saved except through the grace of God? If he has sinned, he is condemned; and how can he, of himself, reverse that condemnation? Suppose that he should keep the law all the rest of his life, he will then only have done what he was always bound to have done, and he will still be an unprofitable servant. What is to become of the past? How can old sins be blotted out? How can the old ruin be retrieved? According to Scripture, and according to common sense, salvation can only be through the free favour of God.

Salvation in the present tense must be by the free favour of God. Persons may contend for salvation by works, but you will not hear anyone support his own argument by saying, "I am myself saved by what I have done." That would be a superfluity of naughtiness to which few men would go. Pride could hardly compass itself about with such extravagant boasting. No, if we are saved, it must be by the free favour of God. No one professes to be an example of the opposite view.

 
Mar 7, 2016
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Cuz not all people accept the free gift God offers, some would rather have dung covered candy and other false gospels.
so would that be the case that they rejected Gods grace too or where they never offerd grace in the first place ?...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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A part of me is inclined to read all 1378 pages of this thread, just to be able to say, "I did it". However, that would be far too much like "works". ;)
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Originally Posted by JIMBO43

when Jesus rules this world he will only need love not a rod. this is forcing your rule dc not having patience or empathy do you know what that means ?

I suggest you study the word for once in your life and post truth instead of opinion....the bible is clear about Jesus ruling from the throne of David with a ROD OF IRON!!!
so your saying when evil has been wiped out Jesus will still rule with an iron rod.. It is written He will walk amongst his people once more ,, and not continuiously need to rule with a rod of iron.. that is only to wipe out the evil..
 
Mar 7, 2016
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All of Grace: C.H. Spurgeon
Sunday Morning Sermon


There can be no present salvation unless it be upon this footing—"By grace are ye saved." The works being unfinished, the salvation would be incomplete; or, the salvation being complete, the main motive of the legalist would be gone.

Salvation must be by grace. If man be lost by sin, how can he be saved except through the grace of God? If he has sinned, he is condemned; and how can he, of himself, reverse that condemnation? Suppose that he should keep the law all the rest of his life, he will then only have done what he was always bound to have done, and he will still be an unprofitable servant. What is to become of the past? How can old sins be blotted out? How can the old ruin be retrieved? According to Scripture, and according to common sense, salvation can only be through the free favour of God.

Salvation in the present tense must be by the free favour of God. Persons may contend for salvation by works, but you will not hear anyone support his own argument by saying, "I am myself saved by what I have done." That would be a superfluity of naughtiness to which few men would go. Pride could hardly compass itself about with such extravagant boasting. No, if we are saved, it must be by the free favour of God. No one professes to be an example of the opposite view.

being saved and recieving his grace is unmerited but some faith has to occur from the believer in order for this to happen.. how ever completion of being saved is also a two way bonding of faith,,, which enables us to grow by recieveing favors and rankings and gifts and more grace... this completion i speak of is the final step of salvation.. which must also be fullfilled by the believer as a reward for keeping his faith untill his last breath..
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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being saved and recieving his grace is unmerited but some faith has to occur from the believer in order for this to happen.. how ever completion of being saved is also a two way bonding of faith,,, which enables us to grow by recieveing favors and rankings and gifts and more grace... this completion i speak of is the final step of salvation.. which must also be fullfilled by the believer as a reward for keeping his faith untill his last breath..
Sinner drawn to God by His Grace, saved by God's Grace, and God will present Him blameless at Christ Judgment seat for rewards - not punishment.

"To Him who is able to keep you, from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy" Jude1:24

Sorry need to go offline for now
 
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Persuaded

Guest
so would that be the case that they rejected Gods grace too or where they never offerd grace in the first place ?...
II Peter 3:9

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward. Not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentance."
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Australia
"Righteousness by faith alone" was the back bone of the protestant movement 500 years ago. Marten Luther struggled with this because he believe in faith alone but James 2 states that faith without works is dead. He though the book of James away or just ignored it for many years because he couldn't make sense of it, and thought it contradicted "faith alone".
I'm not sure what his final conclusion was but i can say that it doesn't contradict the rest of the Bible.

If you do not have works you do not have faith.

It is faith alone that save.

works are a result of faith.

If we are connected to the vine we will bear fruit.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

No works = No faith
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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No works = No faith
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he has brought justice through to victory.
Matthew12:20

This passage is a sad commentary about the proud self-righteous who think they have arrived - no humility = a fake faith.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Yes I agree, having thought about it, it does not say that she lusted after the fruit, only that she saw it and that it was pleasing to the eye, many things are pleasing to the eye in terms of God's creation that does not make it lust.

I guess off topic, but sin entered through Adam not Eve

Lust in and of itself is not the sin, but when lust conceives it brings brings forth sin....so in a round about way sin is the progeny of lust....the lust of the eyes, flesh and pride of life.....it is what we do with said lust that determine the outcome.....

Imagine Jesus...tempted 40 days BEFORE the account of Matthew 4.....he would have been starving and how good would a nice, hot, steaming loaf of bread been....all chewy, and hot and fresh.....MAN shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.....we would have been burping bread before the cows came home and the Roosters crowed..... ;) Thank God for his faithfulness
 
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Ariel82

Guest
It's not a sin to be tempted. Even Jesus was tempted.

Eve did not sin just because she lusted after the fruit and to become more like god,

She sinned when she ate of the fruit...., it was a sin into death when she and Adam denied (aka did not repent of their sin) instead they pushed blame. They did not ask for God's forgiveness.

People still do,that today when the Holy spirit convicts them of sin...they deny it and try and hide from God, instead of repenting and being healed.

James 1:15
New International Version

Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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"Righteousness by faith alone" was the back bone of the protestant movement 500 years ago. Marten Luther struggled with this because he believe in faith alone but James 2 states that faith without works is dead. He though the book of James away or just ignored it for many years because he couldn't make sense of it, and thought it contradicted "faith alone".
I'm not sure what his final conclusion was but i can say that it doesn't contradict the rest of the Bible.

If you do not have works you do not have faith.

It is faith alone that save.

works are a result of faith.

If we are connected to the vine we will bear fruit.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

No works = No faith
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Christians who stand by; "salvation is by faith alone;" are saying that; faith plus works, 'does not gain favor from God for their salvation. The obvious conflict in the bible concerning, Justification by faith plus works; or by faith alone, is between James and Paul. Paul say's that by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified;

"knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." Galatians2:16

"If you do not have works you do not have faith." - This is a false statement; "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans10:17

"It is faith alone that save." This is a true biblical statement.

"works are a result of faith." The cart is before the house; faith will produce works, but works cannot save you.

"If we are connected to the vine we will bear fruit." - Yes this is a true statement; apart from Jesus we are nothing.

My understanding is that James ch.2, is talking to Jewish believers about "faith that is real" with works being the evidence of a real faith, whereas Paul say's; that we are Justified by faith apart from works;

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is;
faith expressing itself through love." Galatians5:6

God bless!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Originally Posted by JIMBO43

when Jesus rules this world he will only need love not a rod. this is forcing your rule dc not having patience or empathy do you know what that means ?

so your saying when evil has been wiped out Jesus will still rule with an iron rod.. It is written He will walk amongst his people once more ,, and not continuiously need to rule with a rod of iron.. that is only to wipe out the evil..
The bible states clearly he will RULE WITH A ROD OF IRON..take it up with God and quit denying the word of God in favor of your opinion....!
 
Nov 12, 2015
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It's not a sin to be tempted. Even Jesus was tempted.

Eve did not sin just because she lusted after the fruit and to become more like god,

She sinned when she ate of the fruit...., it was a sin into death when she and Adam denied (aka did not repent of their sin) instead they pushed blame. They did not ask for God's forgiveness.

People still do,that today when the Holy spirit convicts them of sin...they deny it and try and hide from God, instead of repenting and being healed.

James 1:15
New International Version

Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
I agree with most of this. The only part I don't is that she didn't sin until the moment she ate the fruit.
You and dcon are right - temptation is not sin (I fell into that hissing in my ear for too long!)

Unbelief is sin. Whatever is not belief is sin. So I think she was tempted, began to mistrust what God said, and then reasoned it out and decided God was not telling the truth. At that moment of unbelief in what He said, the sin of unbelief was committed and eating was the result of the sin of unbelief.

(In my opinion. :))
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Cuz not all people accept the free gift God offers, some would rather have dung covered candy and other false gospels.

God does not offer that which is sweeter than honey he creates by bringing it to us. Freely he gives,therfore freely we have received with no work on our behalf.

Have you been lavished with the milk of God’s word... it teaches us He is gracious?

What teaches you He is gracious?

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation (not offers) hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:11

What does His grace teach you?

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious1Pe 2:2

What causes your growth dung covered candy and other false gospels?

Again, Is He gracious or have you like those in the Hebrews six boat tasted it and you therefore crucify him over and over every time you sin?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
God does not offer that which is sweeter than honey he creates by bringing it to us. Freely he gives,therfore freely we have received with no work on our behalf.

Have you been lavished with the milk of God’s word... it teaches us He is gracious?

What teaches you He is gracious?

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation (not offers) hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:11

What does His grace teach you?

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious1Pe 2:2

What causes your growth dung covered candy and other false gospels?

Again, Is He gracious or have you like those in the Hebrews six boat tasted it and you therefore crucify him over and over every time you sin?
The question I answered with my post was WHY DO NOT ALL MEN GET SAVED?

The inference is that the verse says God's grace has appeared to ALL MEN.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:11

Since it clearly says God's grace has appeared to ALL MEN, why do you believe that some men are not saved?

Or are you a universalist and believe all men are saved?

I have answered clearly that they would rather believe a lie, instead of the true gospel....how you respond clearly shows you have not understood the question I was asked or the response I gave. Perhaps you can retead the conversation and try to answer the question asked instead of lecture me about a topic we were not discussing to begin with.

However as not to be rude I will address your points...yes God teaches us to live godly lives. I was not referri,g to God's teachings as candy covered dung but the teachings of MEN that lead people away from God and His truth: salvation is found in Jesus alone and does not include "claim it and name it" or WOF false teachings,
 
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Nov 12, 2015
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I'm going to work with my hands today. I'll come back later to read what you all have to say! :)

Love each other!
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Poles or rods are used to typify the fiery judgment of God represented by brass or bronze. Aaron’s staff was to symbolize the division of the word of God from the thoughts of men it became a serpent that swallowed up other poles. Later developing fruit (almond) as sign of the rebellious.

Looking at the pole did not cause the healing as if we did walk by sight. We walk by faith and not by sight. It confirmed some heard the voice of God speaking to their new hearts that turned them so that they then could repent (comfort themselves.) No hearing of the voice of God no one could turn toward Him who has no form to behold.

The Jews that required a sign before they would believe turned the one time use of the bronze serpent into a idol making it seen, a source that they thought proved they were with God. therfore making the cross which they stumbled over without effect