Not By Works

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May 12, 2017
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The Judgment seat of Christ, or Bema seat of Christ, is for reward not punishment. It is a picture of an athlete stepping up to receive his or her reward - whether good or bad - there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." 2Cor5:10
And Jesus is the judge, not standing in for us, during this Judgement.....and nobody has suggested there is condemnation in Jesus, ever...

the Parable of the talents and Mina's is all about the judgement seat of Christ and I will suggest there will be many there that will find out he never intended for your rest to be passively doing nothing...If you are not increasing the kingdom[bearing fruit]and just stay passive and bury your talent this Judgment seat is not going to make you feel all grace filled and lovey dovey....
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
The bible even in in its translated form, is still absolutely clear that it is a singular event of belief in the completed work of Christ Jesus that brings eternal life and eternal life is eternal

and there is not any possible way to logically argue that eternal life is temporal unless one wants to call God a liar :)

Having said that perhaps a little research into the Greek will help.....


TEXT 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth
him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

KOINE Πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἐστιν ὁ Χριστὸς,
ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ γεγέννηται καὶ πᾶς ὁ ἀγαπῶν τὸν
γεννήσαντα, ἀγαπᾷ καὶ τὸν γεγεννημένον ἐξ αὐτοῦ.

KEV 1 John 5:1a Everyone who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, has been previously generated (and remains generated) out from the God…


The word γεγέννηται is perhaps the most important term in soteriology; for it speaks of the act of God to “generate” one from above. John is writing to provide “divine insight” for those actually born from above, in order that they might “notice” that “they” are having eternal life.


The word is in the perfect tense, which means that as (Davis, 1923) states “[it] expresses the continuance of completed action. It is then a combination of punctiliar action and durative action:

This kind of action expressed by the perfect tense is sometimes called perfective action” (p. 152).


The word γεγέννηται as a perfect tense describes for the child of God that the kind of birth experienced out from the
God is a “perfect birth,” that is, a birth that is completed in the past with present, continuing results. The New Birth is a perfect birth. Thusly, the child of God is one who is generated out from the God and remains generated out from the God; further, the child of God is one who (because of his birth out from the God) is continuously believing

http://www.iamkoine.org/uploads/3/4/5/9/34593438/the_case_for_koine_final.pdf



All of these are absolutely true FOR THE ONE WHO CONTINUES TO BELIEVE. They have zero application to the one who has stopped trusting in the blood of Christ. The promises belong to those who continue to believe. That's why we are exhorted and warned to keep believing what we first heard and believed.



The problem is not a matter of denial or rejection so much as is it is a problem of reading the promises of God out and away from the context of the whole counsel of God, which shows us that the sure promises are only sure for the one who continues to believe.



And here's a perfect example. You left off the last part of 1 Peter 1:5. You left off the 'through faith' part. We are kept by God's power for the day of salvation THROUGH FAITH.
"5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5 NASB)

There is no argument or debate possible about the necessity to keep believing in order to be saved because the Bible is clear about that. The only real question is, "can a true believer stop believing?" But consider that even Paul warns us to not be arrogant, but rather fear in regard to continuing in the kindness of God:
"19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:19-22 NASB)


So apparently Paul thought it quite possible that we could stop trusting and clinging to God's kindness in salvation.
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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if only the Lord Jesus lives forever, has a permanent priesthood and is able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him.

if only he would lose none of those the Father gives Him.

oh... wait... ! ;)
Lol....now your ruined everything. Should we live and actually believe that Jesus is not a liar?

If Jesus supposedly lied to us about that - what else did He lie about? The heart of man was not designed by God to have trust in one who is a liar.

We believed in Christ when we heard the gospel message of Him and are now sealed with the Holy Spirit just like Jesus and Paul said.

Jesus sais that the Holy Spirit will ne with us "forever" John 14:16

Paul said this:

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus is not a liar. He can be trusted with our lives.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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How should we view Commentaries?

I personally love to read from commentaries and have about 1/2 dozen or so that I regularly view on some subject.

There is an inherent problem with going by commentaries to determine truth - they can be giving out what their denomination has taught them in the past and so we "could be" in another church tradition type of situation being perpetuated.

For example - some in the Pentecostal religion believe that true Christians born from above can lose salvation as in being joined as one spirit with the Lord and that the Father sends His beloved children to hell, so all commentaries that " go with this belief" are then cited as being "legitimate sources of truth
".

But in reality - they are just expressing their own religious views on a passage.

Commentaries are basically what the author himself thinks about a passage or certain doctrine which is absolutely fine. I find that I get a part from one and a part from a different commentary and the Spirit of God uses them all in some aspect to reveal what He is speaking to me about.
 
May 12, 2017
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There is no such thing as sinless perfection on earth,and if we sin we should let it go,and move on,but to hold unto sin is the culprit,which many do thinking they are alright.

I would also say this includes holding onto the title of SINNER, after conversion....we are made into a new man...

the old man is sinner[wicked, sons of wrath, rebellion and disobedience]
the new man is saint[set apart and made holy] that will still sin....

Those that state a sinner saved by grace and a saint that still sins are the same have no real understanding about the grace and salvation they boast of being given to them....they are still not free with the total truth of the Gospel

I cannot even fathom approaching our Lord & Savior Christ Jesus at the judgement seat and start by saying....Hey Lord, it's me......that sinner you saved by grace....

For that matter neither could Jesus.....

Matt 25.24-30

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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All he's doing is posting scripture..... can't you handle that?

You make it sound like he's throwing water on the wicked witch of the west.

Then again, maybe he is.

Can't you stand being washed by the water of the Word?
~Can't you stand being washed by the water of the Word?[/QUOTE]


Ha! ankle biting are you? lol
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I would also say this includes holding onto the title of SINNER, after conversion....we are made into a new man...

the old man is sinner[wicked, sons of wrath, rebellion and disobedience]
the new man is saint[set apart and made holy] that will still sin....

Those that state a sinner saved by grace and a saint that still sins are the same have no real understanding about the grace and salvation they boast of being given to them....they are still not free with the total truth of the Gospel

I cannot even fathom approaching our Lord & Savior Christ Jesus at the judgement seat and start by saying....Hey Lord, it's me......that sinner you saved by grace....

For that matter neither could Jesus.....

Matt 25.24-30

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“But his master answered and said to him, ‘You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Well said...we are saints because of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have died with Christ on the cross and been raised with Him in His resurrection. We are a new creation in Him now.

..we do need to understand this truth before we can grow up in Him or we will be forever trying to "do what He has already done." and thus nullify the very grace of God in our lives that is needed for true transformation by the Holy Spirit that we participate in with Him. Phil. 2:13.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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the old man is sinner[wicked, sons of wrath, rebellion and disobedience]
the new man is saint[set apart and made holy] that will still sin....
I just repped you for the above (The rep just says Well, pressed wrong button on my iPhone)

I can't add your quote about standing before God as iPhone won't do it.

another reason for the rep.

Although I must be honest and do fall foul of that.
If God does ask that question sometimes I think my head would be lowered and I would probably mumble "cause you have because of Jesus, other times it's because I'm your Son and what Jesus has done for me"

Anyway good post Megiddo
 
P

PHart

Guest
He is NOT teaching a gospel of works - you are quoting the verses that show you the context.

If you cannot see that he is saying "save yourselves" in terms of vs 38-39 then no one can help you...
I'm not saying Peter's teaching a works gospel. I'm asking YOU and everybody else to explain how it is that Peter can say, "save yourselves" in a 'salvation by grace apart from works' altar call and that not mean you earn your own salvation. If you can do that then you will understand how works are required in salvation and those works not earn salvation.


"38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” " (Acts 2:38-40 NIV)



So explain it. How is it that Peter is teaching salvation by grace through faith apart from works, which he surely is, yet tells the people to 'save yourselves'? Explain that, then you will finally understand how works have to be a part of salvation without those works earning that salvation. Can you do it?
 
May 12, 2017
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I just repped you for the above (The rep just says Well, pressed wrong button on my iPhone)

I can't add your quote about standing before God as iPhone won't do it.

another reason for the rep.

Although I must be honest and do fall foul of that.
If God does ask that question sometimes I think my head would be lowered and I would probably mumble "cause you have because of Jesus, other times it's because I'm your Son and what Jesus has done for me"

Anyway good post Megiddo
thanks Bill!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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passive aggression, sly remarks, and offensive statements said out of SPITE is different than reproof....

im not pointing a finger

but when i look at this thread.... i often see people who have no desire to help a brother or neighbor, but instead restore their image by dragging someone elses down

or even just cause strife and spark a heated back and forth....


if we are walking in the Holy spirit
why would we do such a thing


and if someone is focused on good works, same question...


we have plenty of time to edit, reread and choose not to send a message

if you cant be loving HERE

what chance would you have face to face?
Let your light shine NoNameMagee

"The Greek word elegcho has the root meaning, "to bring something to light; to expose it to light," and is used to mean "to point something out to someone." BibleDiscussion.com
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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"38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” " (Acts 2:38-40 NIV)



Peter's not teaching a 'works save' gospel, but are you able to explain how he can give an altar call saying, "save yourselves" and him not be teaching a 'works save' gospel that Paul condemned?
I don't know yet if anyone else has responded to this post, but I am surprised at this. This is the call to believe the gospel, and receive Holy Spirit. It's the only way to save oneself from any evil.
 

stillness

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Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
when did you work , for salvation.

1 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will Ephesians 1


2 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
"We are Labourers together with God. " Why we have inheritance in Him.

A question was asked at the beginning of this post: When did you work, for salvation?
And he said to him, Out of your own mouth will I judge you servant with divided spirit. You knew I was a hard man, expecting a harvest elsewhere, and reaping where I did not sow: Why then did you not invest in the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with your interest. And he said to them that stood by: Take from him the pound, and give to him that has ten pounds. {The people watching wondered why the one with the most interest would be the one receiving more (And they said to him, Lord, he has ten pounds.)}

Harvesting where He did not plant: what someone invested your life is someone else's interest of God, not your inheritance. Your inheritance is what you invest in someone else who will continue to invest in someone else also. Love isn't Love unless its given away: He died to make it possible and expects the same from us: to die to our selfish expectations and follow Him. "A new commandment I give to you, that you Love one another; as I have Love you, that you also Love one another."
These are the servants of the Lord who will rule with Him in the resurrection, "The rest of the dead are not raised until the thousand years are fulfilled." "Some will be saved but as through fire but will lose their reward."
Why this discussion is hard, some just want fire insurance: understand then tat in the fire everything of ourselves burns, "not by our works." The nations of the saved will walk in the Light of the city. The city: the bride no longer among the nations.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I have explained it several times. And I'm confident that you were active in all the places I did that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you simply did not read those posts.

I'm curious. Do you still not understand that works are only 'required' in salvation because they are the expected and obligatory outcome of having faith? John says the person who says they know Christ but has no godly agape love for others is a liar and does not know God and belongs to the devil. The love doesn't save the person, it signifies that they know Christ in salvation.
~Do you still not understand that works are only 'required' in salvation because they are the expected and obligatory outcome of having faith


What I understand is that with love there is no obligation. Love does what love does because it's love. :)

This morning at 4 am ish...I heard this and posted it somewhere. Just sit at His feet and the serving will come naturally.

It's the same with the works of Holy Spirit. Only they are supernaturally natural.

I think you are thinking of the natural man too much and doing good deeds. Even the unbelievers have love but with a selfish motive of receiving the same back. Agape is not so.

Now if that is what you are saying too, then I have misunderstood you. Trouble is though for me, is why would I?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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You probably know most error in hermeneutics comes from using complex Scriptures to disregard the majority of the simple ones. And the simple Scriptures teach when you believe you pass from death to life. The old man died and the new man is reborn.
A clear interpretation of scripture is reading out of a passage what the Holy Spirit has said; but many abusers of the bible read into a passage what they want it to say. Many cults are formed in this way, and many who follow their twisted teachings. Thank you for letting your light shine on this subject.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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~Do you still not understand that works are only 'required' in salvation because they are the expected and obligatory outcome of having faith


What I understand is that with love there is no obligation. Love does what love does because it's love. :)

This morning at 4 am ish...I heard this and posted it somewhere. Just sit at His feet and the serving will come naturally.

It's the same with the works of Holy Spirit. Only they are supernaturally natural.

I think you are thinking of the natural man too much and doing good deeds. Even the unbelievers have love but with a selfish motive of receiving the same back. Agape is not so.

Now if that is what you are saying too, then I have misunderstood you. Trouble is though for me, is why would I?
Love is a beautiful fruit which does occur as a child to who is under the wings of the father. Think about this sister how upset was you when you lost your true friend who you opened up to with all your heart and protected and fighted for and cried with and shared all your upset with and shared theres.. Tell me sister where does this love come from ? please answer me sister coz i had all this taken away from me.. as a child...but i still carried on loving..