Not By Works

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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I just barely came on here..your's was the first one I saw. I do NOT believe in hyper grace at all. I was just re-iterating that people aren't supposed to be making threads on it. :)


Jehovah's witnesses isn't in the Bible either, friend.

Strange you would hop on this & pass over all the web quotes & videos from hypergrace sites.

You aren't a respector of persons, are you?

Surely you're not one of those that want hypergrace on here?

Surely not.:)
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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its also good to remember to hold on with everyting you have in you to Him, while Knowing you are Held. ots about doing the Walk youself, Knowing He is right beside you and did the walk first. its about seeking Him every day, and giving our very best to God, Knowing He Loves Us, He suffered and died for us, He is with us. its one thing to say " let God do the work through you" but really you still have to do what He says to do or the work will never Get done. He made us able, and makes us able each day, but if we do not do what He is telling us to do, it will never just magically Get done.

its not as if we have a specail Breathing method and go into a transe and Now God takes our members over like a puppet, God works through Us by His Word living in us. His word in us becomes the power ffor us to do, notice How these are written.

phil 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

I can do all thing through Christ who gives me the strength"

phil 3: Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. "



not as though the work is done and im already saved, but i press toward the mark, i reach forth to apprehend that which i Know Jesus has apprehended Me also. we should always Know God is with us and is Our strength and source, but quite forewardly, there is much to be done in the world, and the Ones who actually go to work are the ones being used By God. its not a magical, inhabitation like a possession where God now controls us, we have to follow His words to freedom and sight. Love is action to God, what we do, matters very much. we should never Lose the fear of God that Keeps us moving Foreward, and never forget the comfort and supply of God also. i sure dont Know about anyone else but a chirstian Life is not an easy thing it takes everything we have and gives Back many fold over, but all our effort should be always applied. Grace and our efforts are not opposed, the thought that because God gives Grace Now were not suppose to commit our Lives to His Word with all our heart, His word teaches us to actually do what He says to do. people will explain why thats wrong because of this or that principle, But Gods Word in the 4 Gospels teaches His disciples to go to work in His true Love that He taught the World.

Teaches repentance, obedience, pressing foreward, carrying our own Cross, Notice Jesus says " If anyone will come after me He must lay Himself down, pick up His cross and follow me." thats the attitude the disciples and paul shows so frequently there in those examples, and so many other areas in the epistles. Our attitudes should be we Love God so Much we want to Learn His ways and put them into Practice, we want to do all we can for Jesus because of all He did for us. Him working through us is His words that change Our mind to action sanctifying our Lives. its the fire baptism the " refiners fire" the gospel changes Minds and Hearts but we have to take it to Heart and believe it and do it because thats what it says
Thank you followjesus i got a lot from that:)...I do believe we must walk in obedience to God, after all, if Paul, Peter and the rest sat on their backside doing nothing, we would not have the NT...I want to learn more about Him, I am about to start reading Matthew and then the other 3 gospels...I have a busy week this week, but God willing i want to take a break each day and spend time in the word and really look at Scripture, that`s my plan for next week, i don`t mean i have a busy week this week and i am putting God second, His word comes before anything in the morning, but i feel i need quite time with Him, i think He wants to stretch me lol...xox...
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I just barely came on here..your's was the first one I saw. I do NOT believe in hyper grace at all. I was just re-iterating that people aren't supposed to be making threads on it. :)

I agree. Nor are they supposed to be bringing up the term either.

Some people were making up threads not only using the term but also attacking ministers too.


It's best just to ignore when this is done as no good comes from it and carry on talking about the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us so that we can grow up in Christ.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I find it is helpful to listen to the man speak himself than to accept what another man says about him. I will listen to quite a few videos by a man to hear for myself what he says and if it helps me grow in trust or not. If it makes me fear instead of trust, I just don't listen to him. If he helps me to trust more, I listen. :)

Even our own courts of law allow a man to speak for himself. We should allow that too, before we decide what someone says about him is true.
And read his books also why you're at it.

I expect you to be a Berean about it.:)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Thank you followjesus i got a lot from that:)...I do believe we must walk in obedience to God, after all, if Paul, Peter and the rest sat on their backside doing nothing, we would not have the NT...I want to learn more about Him, I am about to start reading Matthew and then the other 3 gospels...I have a busy week this week, but God willing i want to take a break each day and spend time in the word and really look at Scripture, that`s my plan for next week, i don`t mean i have a busy week this week and i am putting God second, His word comes before anything in the morning, but i feel i need quite time with Him, i think He wants to stretch me lol...xox...
I love to see how Jesus interacted with the people in the gospel accounts. We can see the will and love of the Father in Christ while He was in this earth.

Jesus said that no man knows the Father but I have come to reveal Him to you. Jesus brought in the reality of God being our Father to our thoughts and hearts.

If we want to see the character and will of God in action - we look to Jesus.

We look to Jesus too on how He was completely dependent on the life of the Father in Him to do the Father's works. Jesus Himself said "It is the Father in Me doing His works - I can do nothing of Myself".

This is "how " Jesus walked while on this earth and we too are to walk as He walked - only completely dependent on Christ alone.

Jesus said "I have many things to tell you but you cannot bear them now. But the Holy Spirit when He comes - He will teach you all things and reveal the things of Me and show them unto you."

Meaning - Jesus had many other things to tell us but the disciples couldn't understand them yet - Jesus has used Paul to show what these things are by the Holy Spirit. You do not get these in the 4 gospels. The words spoken to Paul are from Jesus' words and are just as valid.

The proclamation of Christ produces the profession of Christ, but the explanation of Christ is what produces the experience of Christ.

Believers can never fully enjoy the triumph of the gospel and express Christ in this world victoriously
until there has been an explanation and exposition of the vivid details of the redemptive work of Christ that has gained a foothold in our renewed minds.

The 4 gospels were eyewitness accounts of the historical events in the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. Christianity is based on the veracity of these events as having occurred in real time, in all historicity and specificity.

Nevertheless it is the unveiling of the spiritual realities of these events that relates to the believer in Christ. This is found in the revelation that the Lord Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul.

The 4 gospels are the proclamation of the gospel. They disclose to us what men saw.

Acts of the apostles is the demonstration of the gospel, but it is Paul's letters which give us an explanation of the gospel. It is the Pauline Epistles that are the constitution of this church age.

Paul's epistles explain what happened from the cross, death, burial, quickening and resurrection to the being seated at the right hand of the Father. Without these epistles we would have no idea what Jesus our Lord actually accomplished for us.

Paul was taught by Jesus Christ Himself to explain His gospel = to reveal the mystery that was hidden in God until it was revealed by Christ to Paul.

The mystery being Christ Himself and the riches of that glory is that Christ is in us and we are in union with Him as one spirit!

These "explanations" of the mystery of the gospel that Christ is in us - cannot be found openly in the 4 gospels themselves. We need to marry the things Paul said with the words of Jesus in the 4 gospels.

It is in Paul's explanation of the gospel that Christ is in us - the hope of glory where we find the nutrients to walk by the spirit.
 
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Aug 15, 2009
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Romans 1:27-28

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,


____________

1 Timothy 4

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;



____________________

even so

__________________


Hebrews Chapter 6


4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.



_________________

both are true seeing as how scripture is inspired

this to me this sounds like the "knowledge" of God those refused to retain never beared any fruit... they had understanding without faith (those in romans) or a dead false faith
and those in timothy had a dead faith to begin....



but what if as it says in hebrews

" If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance"

if they die in thier fallen state?

in that moment

what if their "fallen state" is belief in self?


im not trying to cause division

and sorry if im not making sense
You see that that they can't fall away from something they were never in, don't you?

This proves they were christians.:)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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AmEn sis, I think it is also knowledge of his word, and what he promised,

as john said again (yes I love John, he walked with Christ and had a very special relationship). I write the words to you so you may KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and by it, continue to believe in his name.

The power to keep us believing is is our knowledge of what we have in Christ, if we think we can lose what we have, we may continue to believe, and continue to play chuch, but more then likely we will fall and walk away, because we are forced to live in fear, even if we deny it is fear.

I fear eat many thousands will walk in front of Jesus on judgment day thinking they are saved only to be told depart from me.

Thats a scary thought,
I fear I may be one of them. It keeps me in check.

Some never consider themselves as one of those, because they think they've already arrived because of a false doctrine.

Now THAT'S scary.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Thank you followjesus i got a lot from that:)...I do believe we must walk in obedience to God, after all, if Paul, Peter and the rest sat on their backside doing nothing, we would not have the NT...I want to learn more about Him, I am about to start reading Matthew and then the other 3 gospels...I have a busy week this week, but God willing i want to take a break each day and spend time in the word and really look at Scripture, that`s my plan for next week, i don`t mean i have a busy week this week and i am putting God second, His word comes before anything in the morning, but i feel i need quite time with Him, i think He wants to stretch me lol...xox...
To say that we MUST obey God, is law.
To say we WILL obey God by His Spirit in us, is trust. (Faith means trust).

To say I MUST obey Him leads me into making law of what He said. It never takes me anywhere good, because if I MUST obey, and having anger in my heart is to murder as Jesus said, I am doomed, because there is no way on Gods' green earth that I can NEVER have anger in my heart. I can't do it, I tell you! I can try and go on for awhile, but someone IS going to come along at some point who makes me angry if I live on this planet!

So a man can tell me all he wants that I MUST obey God and never have anger in my heart at someone, he can even tell me this until he is blue in the face, but I can't do it. I will always fail at some point and will fume and splutter inside at how wrong they treated me and how I deserve respect.

But I have found that if I admit my weakness and poverty of Spirit, and look at it as He has promised I WILL obey Him by the Spirit in me, even if I have no idea how He will cleanse my heart of anger, that is trust (faith) in Him to do what I cannot.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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That's a great idea - make sure you go and listen from what is "actually being said" and not what is being twisted to try to make it appear to be something different. There are heretic hunters websites all over the internet and they basically call everyone that doesn't believe what they do about a subject - a heretic.

The original term was brought in by another minister that didn't agree with some things others were teaching about the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. It has then become a derogatory term used by some people to disparage the grace of God but some have used the term to make "lemonade" out of the lemons being thrown at them.

And sometimes we can just agree to dis-agree too as none of us agrees with every thing in all subjects but the mods have requested we not use the term anymore because of the foul behavior it brings up amongst us.

Here is the website from the "horse's mouth."

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections



I have to be honest, i did not find anything wrong with this writing at all...What it has showed me is something new to look at about when we repent, is he saying because Jesus died for ALL our sins once and for all that we have no need to ask for forgiveness but to come to God with godly sorrow, tell God He is right, tell God that we were foolish and then go on...I must admit when i sin, i do come to Jesus and ask Him to forgive me, i thank Him for washing me clean, my heart hurts so much that i cry when i confess because i have hurt Him, am i putting myself under my own pressure:confused:...Like i said a good read...xox...
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I just barely came on here..your's was the first one I saw. I do NOT believe in hyper grace at all. I was just re-iterating that people aren't supposed to be making threads on it. :)
Oh, okay.

Since you was hot on me, I can't wait to see what you'll write on the others.

I can't wait to read it.:D

 
Nov 12, 2015
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Oh, okay.

Since you was hot on me, I can't wait to see what you'll write on the others.

I can't wait to read it.:D

You are being very ugly brother. What do you think you will accomplish good by trying to stir up the flesh of us? We are doing well walking in love.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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I know what you expect from me. I just reject what you expect from me.
Perhaps I worded that wrong..... I do make mistakes, being in flesh and all.

I believe you will be a Berean about it.

I hope I got it right this time.
:)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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You are being very ugly brother. What do you think you will accomplish good by trying to stir up the flesh of us? We are doing well walking in love.
I didn't say anything ugly, so don't twist this, please.
We are doing well walking in love.
I couldn't say that, because I don't really know any of you.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I have to be honest, i did not find anything wrong with this writing at all...What it has showed me is something new to look at about when we repent, is he saying because Jesus died for ALL our sins once and for all that we have no need to ask for forgiveness but to come to God with godly sorrow, tell God He is right, tell God that we were foolish and then go on...I must admit when i sin, i do come to Jesus and ask Him to forgive me, i thank Him for washing me clean, my heart hurts so much that i cry when i confess because i have hurt Him, am i putting myself under my own pressure:confused:...Like i said a good read...xox...
Walk on in your Lord with the knowledge you have. All is well...:).

He loves you and has provided all things for all of us to grow up in Him. We can trust Him as we are in His hands and He said - none do I lose.

Even when Peter boasted of his love for the Lord and that he would never forsake him - Peter did. What did Jesus say to him?

That He had prayed for Peter that his faith would fail not - not that Peter himself would not fail because he did.

True faith is of the heart and not in our heads.

Jesus said to Peter - when you are converted - strengthen your brethren. Jesus spoke to his purpose as part of the body of Christ at the time and ignored Peter's failure to speak to his true identity.

Whenever we try in our own strength to do things - we will fail but our faith that is in our hearts - in the new creation in Christ can never fail because we are one spirit with the Lord forever - just like Jesus said.

In knowing this "security" we have in Christ we can grow in true "maturity".
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Perhaps I worded that wrong..... I do make mistakes, being in flesh and all.

I believe you will be a Berean about it.

I hope I got it right this time.
:)
If you mean that to be a berean, I must buy the mans books, I don't have any money with which to buy them, so you will have to settle for me listening to some free teaching videos and hearing whether what he says agrees with what the Spirit has taught me in scripture.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I didn't say anything ugly, so don't twist this, please.
I couldn't say that, because I don't really know any of you.
You have said many ugly things, not out of love for your brothers and sisters. You are being very contentious and it is not helping anyone to grow in trust and run their race of trust better. But that's because your purpose and motive is not love but is to contend with those who do not agree with you.

You are cranking up your flesh and getting closer and closer to having no control over your tongue at all. I pray that you will not start another fire and that God will help us to control our flesh and to keep loving you until you see what harm you are in danger of causing among us.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If I say: and that's why He isn't going to allow me to stop growing in trust, why do you hear me saying that I am not going to allow me to stop growing in trust?
because if you truly thought he would not allow you to stop growing and trust You would never think you could fall away. You would continue to trust what God promised to do. which I agree, is to never allow you to fall away.

does that make sense?