Not By Works

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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To fully appreciate 2 Peter 1.12 and other truths about the new man Vs. the old man, you have to also understand the truth man is a 3 part being. This truth is refuted by many and will likely be refuted and debated when I say it here...that does not negate that the Bible proves that every person is a 3 part being, just as God in his image is a 3 part being...This debate is usually because many do not understand the true difference, between, spirit, soul , heart, body, a flesh of a man..

Man is first and foremost a spirit, that has mind, will, emotions, passions[Soul] and lives in a Body suit[Flesh]

The new man/old man is your Spirit...at conversion your spirit is made perfect as it was originally intended to be. This is because along with the free gift of salvation we are also given the free gift of positional righteousness...this means the old man cursed by Adam is now completely reborn as the new man in the second Adam...The old man is not your flesh. The new man spirit is now born again and reconciled back to God through the work of Jesus Christ....

The problem is that our soul[mind, will, emotions, passions] have not been renewed like you spirit....so we must renew our minds to God's word.....the flesh/body will follow whoever is in charge of it....the spirit or the mind....

If the man is born again but has no renewed mind and that mind looks at a woman and lusts after her, the flesh/body will carry it out in the form of adultery or fornication....if the man is born again and has a renewed mind and that mind looks at a woman and the spirit takes the lustful thoughts into captivity and to the obedience in Christ, the body is killed/crucified to lust, fornication and adultery because the mind has been renewed and is following the spirit, not the flesh/body

As we spiritually mature as 2 Peter 1.12 tells us we will not stumble....stumble means SIN.....

This is a very hard truth for people to get, because of poor teaching that we constantly fight 2 natures and have 2 natures.....if you have 2 old dogs fighting in you...you need to GET SAVED....the Bible does not teach we have 2 natures....we have one and that is the divine nature we are born again with in our spirit at conversion...but we must renew the mind, which will help crucify the flesh and its passions...


I am not attmpeting to cause division or single anyone particular person out with my next statement, but it has to be said...

The reason why people are taught they have 2 natures is because of false and very poor teaching of the Romans 1-8...especially with Romans 7....Many miss something about most of Romans, it was written to the Jews and Chapter 7 is all about being freed from the law...Romans 2 says gentiles were not under any law...so how people can teach that gentiles have 2 natures fighting in them in Chapter 7, when it was written to Jews under the law is beyond me....Romans 7 is foundational for gentiles to show us we have a better covenant....and that we do not wrestle as the Jews did with the old man man of sin on them...which was the law...The key verse of Romans 7 is Vs 6.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Others will claim Paul called himself a chief sinner in the present tense, and that justifies them to call themselves sinners saved by grace...but that is also wrong....


The old man and the flesh are not the same...the old man[condemned spirit] was buried with Christ and then raised into newness of life[new spirit] just as Romans 6 tells us it was...
Romans 7 does my head in. I have resersched what it means and is all about.
Nothing seems to sink in for some reason.

Anyway can I just ask are we Spirt, Soul and Body!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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To me given that the person who did the hurting knew they did something wrong then that person needs to accept that they did wrong and go and reconcile. Apologise for doing wrong.

Whilst we do and act contrary to our new nature it is not an excuse to say "That isn't really me"
Amen! I agree 100%.

There is a vast difference between our dealings with the Lord and our dealings with our brethren. If we have wronged someone - we should be saying so.

God looks on the heart and man looks on outward appearances.

It's these "outward appearances" that can affect our attitudes towards others.

Ephesians 4:29-32 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

[SUP]30 [/SUP] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. ( It grieves the Spirit when we back-bite and attack each other )

[SUP]31 [/SUP]
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

 
Aug 15, 2009
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Me get proof? I'm, still waiting on yours, something you will never find.

The comments you've supplied actually go against your teaching, they're hardly proof, nor do you know Gill.

He's Reformed, served as Pastor prior to, um, Spurgeon, and being Reformed believes and supports OSAS/Perseverance of the Saints. Just like, you know, his predecessor, Spurgeon too preached this glorious truth. :D

I find it rather humorous that you've used this, teaching that is against you, for "proof!" LOL!!!!!

You remind me of this:





The fact you don't know this, nor can you actually understand that what he had written is against your teaching is absolutely remarkable!!!

Get some comprehension my man, you've failed here.
It's so hard to get proof, but so easy to babble.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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It's so hard to get proof, but so easy to babble.
You'd know more about that than me.

I've given facts proving your proof, well, isn't.

Face it, you don't know what you're talking about, and the commentaries do not support you. You've failed in your effort out of ignorance of Gill and others. That's a fact.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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You'd know more about that than me.

I've given facts proving your proof, well, isn't.

Face it, you don't know what you're talking about, and the commentaries do not support you. You've failed in your effort out of ignorance of Gill and others. That's a fact.
Are you & Dcon brothers?

You sound so much alike.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Every time I read such against me, it's made up with no posts to use as evidence.
That's called BEARING FALSE WITNESS.
That is in no way the definition or meaning of bearing false witness.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Are you & Dcon brothers?

You sound so much alike.
Got any more Gill to quote, whose teaching is opposed to yours? Wait, don't tell me; all this time you've been reading and quoting Gill and thought he believed your false gospel of works and losing salvation? Uh? LOL!!!! :D
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Hey Stephen63, maybe you can quote some Charles Taze Russell for us supporting the Deity of Christ? :D
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I agree. Nor are they supposed to be bringing up the term either.

Some people were making up threads not only using the term but also attacking ministers too.


It's best just to ignore when this is done as no good comes from it and carry on talking about the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us so that we can grow up in Christ.
The lambs are not ignoring though. Makes me sad to see this. Breakthrough then lies rise.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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That is in no way the definition or meaning of bearing false witness.
Now, why on earth would you say a thing like that?

Let's see.....


https://www.gotquestions.org/false-witness.html

Answer: Bearing false witness is mentioned many times in the Bible, exclusively as something bad. “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” is the ninth of the Ten Commandments that Moses brought back with him from his encounter with God on Mount Sinai (
Exodus 20:16). False witness, or spreading a false report, is associated with being allied with the wicked (Exodus 23:1), willing to do violence to others (Psalm 27:12), and sowing discord among brothers (Proverbs 6:19). The Bible calls bearing false witness lying (Proverbs 14:5) and compares a man who bears false witness against his neighbor to a violent weapon (Proverbs 25:18). Lies harm people.

A false witness is one who stands up and swears before others that something untrue is true, especially with the intention of hurting someone else or ruining his reputation. This happened to David (Psalm 27:12), Jesus (Matthew 26:60; Mark 14:56), and Paul (Acts 6:13). When the wicked Queen Jezebel wished to procure a vineyard for her sulking husband, King Ahab, she employed two false witnesses. Naboth, the rightful owner of the vineyard, was seated in an honorable place on a day of fasting, but “then two scoundrels came and sat opposite him and brought charges against Naboth before the people, saying, ‘Naboth has cursed both God and the king.’ So they took him outside the city and stoned him to death” (1 Kings 21:13). What the “scoundrels” said against Naboth was absolutely untrue; they were bearing false witness with impunity and with the queen’s blessing. As a result, an innocent man was killed. When a person is righteous and his enemies can find nothing with which to blame him, bearing false witness is a common weapon.

The lies told by a false witness come from the sinful human heart—along with murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, slander, and evil thoughts (Matthew 15:19). Jesus said that man is defiled by these evil things that come from the heart. The only possible cure for an evil heart that bears false witness is to receive a new, pure heart, which can only be given by God (Ezekiel 36:26). When a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, he will be like a fresh spring or a fruitful tree or a budding vine, bursting with good things (John 7:38; Psalm 1:1–6; John 15:4–5). The old is gone, and the new takes its place (Ephesians 4:22–24). Those who are in Christ have a new heart that speaks the truth: “Each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor” (Ephesians 4:25). A person who bears false witness is controlled by the flesh rather than by the Spirit of God, and he should repent of that sin and turn to Christ.


Proverbs 6
16There are six things which the LORD hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17Haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

And hands that shed innocent blood,

18A heart that devises wicked plans,

Feet that run rapidly to evil,

19A false witness who utters lies,

And one who spreads strife among brothers
.
 
May 12, 2017
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We also have to see to see what his gospel is, most likely many of us have differences in outward doctrines, but the gospel is what is important,

hypergrace is being attacked because of its WOF content, I do not agree with WOF at all, but I have yet seen anyone prove their gospel is wrong. Period.
I have to come off ignore and kindly and in the right spirit address something in your comments

The WOF movement are very Pentecostal/charismatic in doctrine and distinctive...and all of them believe that you do not work for your salvation, but you can walk away from saving faith....and by doing so become apostate and lose your salvation.

The also believe in speaking in tongues and a host of other things you do not believe..

I do not think I am alone and I think some of us would like to hear from you,why you thought they believed in eternal security like you do, when clearly if you had any real understanding of the movement, you would know they don't....



Going back to ignoring you now...and continue our honorable agreement.
 
May 12, 2017
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If you mean that to be a berean, I must buy the mans books, I don't have any money with which to buy them, so you will have to settle for me listening to some free teaching videos and hearing whether what he says agrees with what the Spirit has taught me in scripture.
I think he is asking you to search the scriptures SG.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I think we need to listen to the Spirit on the inside of us as all cases are different and he knows exactly what is needed and also the "timing" of things too. Even if truth is told - some people are just not ready to receive it yet for various reasons.

The Lord knows the timing of things too - it's not good enough to just know the answer. Unless the Lord build the house - we labor in vain that build it.

Bitterness does defile people as Hebrews 12:15 shows.

Knowing how forgiven we are in Christ releases His forgiveness that is in our new creation to manifest. It's a work of grace that only God can give. Without Him we can do nothing.
I know this is the answer. But, when these hurt persons come to forums to teach out of their bitterness...then things like what is happening here happens.

Is why I said we can come with baggage of the past and it corrupts the well that should be clear and refreshing.

Just trying to make us aware and look for this I guess.
 
P

PHart

Guest
I disagree with your last statement. We all are tested in situations. And all are striking at our faith.
I'm talking about the testing of our faith as in, "is this all really true?" As opposed to "I believe in God, but will he take care of me in this difficult time?" See the difference?

Not trusting God in salvation is different than simply being unable to trust God to get you through a difficult situation. It is the testing of our faith in salvation itself that few seem to have been tested in. And it seems it's these untested people that have a strong OSAS, even angry, defense for OSAS. They've simply never come to the cross roads of turning back to Egypt in an abandonment of the promises altogether. And so they think that means they are "once saved, always saved", little knowing that they are simply untested in the area of returning to the world in a denial of Christ.
 
May 12, 2017
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Wow!

I posted my proof..... you post yours.

You DO have proof, don't you?
Asking a TULIP Calvinist who gloats he is one of the elect to offer proof is like asking a baseball catcher if he really catches the ball....
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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To me given that the person who did the hurting knew they did something wrong then that person needs to accept that they did wrong and go and reconcile. Apologise for doing wrong.

Whilst we do and act contrary to our new nature it is not an excuse to say "That isn't really me"
It is my understanding that the person who acted wrong did apologize. And it's been rejected. It was a serious sin and resulted in divorce if I understood what was being said. And now they are no longer best friends.

I can see why one would be bitter...but that is the responsibility now of the hurt person to deal with, not the hurter. Do you agree?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If He continues to grow my trust, that is the opposite of not continuing to trust, so how is that you think that I think I am in danger?
He said he would continue until the day of christ,

He will not fail so why would you think he could fail?


I said that He has said if we do not continue and grow in trust (abide), we will be cut off.
That is what HE has said. And that is why He will not allow me to not grow in trust. He has only ever GROWN my trust and I have seen Him repeatedly keep His promise. Why would I fear that He won't continue to keep His promises to me?
He will keep his promise, that's why you will NEVER fall away. because it is not up to you, it is up to him. Thats why you are not in danger. if you are truly his child.

Again, if you think you can fall away, who are you trusting?

I hope you can see what I am saying..and why I am saying it.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I wasn't being hot on you.. I was actually agreeing with you about not posting hyper grace threads and reinforcing that point..lol


Oh, okay.

Since you was hot on me, I can't wait to see what you'll write on the others.

I can't wait to read it.:D