Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#31,201
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#31,201
Stunnedbygrace said:
I snuck back in real quick on a break.
I only see that you are repeating what I said...
I think you are having a block to hearing what I've said and have not really heard me. Otherwise, I think you would agree with me since you said the same thing I just said.

It's very odd and I don't quite know how to respond when you are thinking what I said was something different than what you just said.

Did you read my entire post? I'm just...perplexed at what I should answer when you said the same thing I just said in my post...:D

If God says anyone who doesn't abide will be cut off, then He has told the truth. I don't have to change the definition of abide or of cut off. I just have to keep trusting Him that He will grow my faith so this doesn't happen to me...

I think your block at hearing that I said the same thing you just did is having more to do with the verse than with what I said...because if you will carefully read again what I said, I think you will see it is the same thing you have said...

Very perplexing...;)
Click to expand...
Stunned

Did you see what Meggido posted that abiding really means?
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#31,202
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#31,202
eternally-gratefull said:
so you do not think we can fall away and be cast out and burned?



If I misunderstood, forgive me..lol
Click to expand...
Yes, now I am certain that your knot is with the verse and not what I have said! :)

Start with what God has said as being true - anyone who doesn't abide (continue in and grow in trust) is cut off.

But don't take that verse apart from all the other verses! That would only create fear!

Instead, you have to understand that verse in tandem with all the other verses.

Has God told the truth that anyone who doesn't remain in and grow in trust will be cut off? Yes. He always tells the truth. So as you see your trust in Him always increasing, this should not make you fear you will be cut off - it should make you see that since He is increasing your faith, He is seeing to it that this DOESN'T happen to you! It should cause MORE trust, not less, when you see Him doing this in you (growing your trust)!
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#31,203
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#31,203
Magenta said:
Two hundred posts in this thread can happen in a day.

Everybody else had not forgotten. You bear false witness.
Click to expand...
The post #30858 was 19 hours ago not even a full day, good grief; Let the music play I say!
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#31,204
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#31,204
Grace777x70 said:
After I was born again and came to know Christ kneeling by my bed one night when I was a young teenager - I went to a Pentecostal church and I can certainly say that in that religion they did not believe in the eternal security of the believer and it caused a lot of trouble with people's minds.

I saw many people's faith ship-wrecked because of their doctrines.

Inside of me I knew something was drastically wrong but it all sounded so good. It had the "appearance of good" but there was no power other than human will-power being dispensed.

All works-based - works-righteousness religions in one form or other say that we will lose our salvation because it denies the very work of Christ and it changes it to be dependent on ourselves instead of the "revelation of Christ Himself".

They did however give "lip-service" to the Holy Spirit and to the grace of God in the Christians life and of course to Eph. 2:8-10 because how can you get around that scripture?

I'm not saying all Pentecostal churches were like this back in the 70's and 80's but the ones I visited sure were and I was in a few of them from the eastern parts of Canada down through to Texas.

They all gave the same message.

There were great people in there that loved the Lord.

I can also say without a doubt that there was no grace teaching and a warped view of the Father's love and grace for us.

The so-called word of faith in some circles had very little understanding of grace that I could see but I did agree with some of their beliefs - like healing and how the principle of faith works.

To me their focus was off in that they were trying to do things by what they did instead of resting in what Christ has already done. This they too were into works in a form.

They thought if they confessed it enough times - then it would come about. This is vastly different then confessing things because they are already true in Christ by His grace alone.

Once the Lord has revealed to me personally the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection I knew I couldn't go back to that religion again. The Lord said that the knowledge of the glory of Him will fill all the earth and that's exactly what He is doing now.

Let us have ears to hear Father and eyes to see!
Click to expand...
Time ran out:

I was adding that in every denomination the Lord is revealing His love and grace to those that have a heart for knowing God - to those that have Christ in them.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious "sinless perfection in the flesh" Christian life that was being preached to them by some people.

They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

The Lord is bringing His beloved back to Him. Let's not have the judgmental works-based older brother who doesn't know the heart and true nature of the Father to meet them at the door of our churches instead of having the Father meet them.

I believe in preaching the love and grace of God in Christ so that believers will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ.

We need to build the firm foundation in Him first before we bring on the warning scriptures because we can speak of them in the wrong light and if we are not built on the foundation of Christ Himself and His finished work on the cross - it can cause us to become ship-wrecked.

Speaking the warning scriptures to those with that firm foundation in Christ is needed and they should be heeded and then they become a blessing to us and keep us centered on Christ and His life and not on the flesh with it's deceitfulness.

Walk by the flesh in this life and we will bring destruction of some sort in all our lives - from living a homosexual lifestyle to outbursts of anger, to malice, to envy, to the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are all in the same lists together.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God so that we can grow up in Christ.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#31,205
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#31,205
stonesoffire said:
Stunned

Did you see what Meggido posted that abiding really means?
Click to expand...
Yes I did!
I had no objection to what he said/how he personally words it. It may help someone whereas my explaining of it in my words might not. So I saw it and agreed that abiding/continuing and growing in trust is to get to know Him more and more. :)
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#31,206
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#31,206
Rosemaryx said:
Hi Grace...Just finished listening to Andrew Farley and really enjoyed his preaching...I have another one lined up for this evening when i lay my head down...:)...xox...
Click to expand...
Sleep well! May the Lord speak to your spirit while you sleep and give you comfort that He loves you and will never leave you nor forsake you - no matter how messed up we can get in our minds. God looks on our hearts where we are one spirit with the Lord forever!
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#31,207
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#31,207
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes I did!
I had no objection to what he said/how he personally words it. It may help someone whereas my explaining of it in my words might not. So I saw it and agreed that abiding/continuing and growing in trust is to get to know Him more and more. :)
Click to expand...
To become one. Is different.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31,208
#31,208
Stunnedbygrace said:
Yes, now I am certain that your knot is with the verse and not what I have said! :)

Start with what God has said as being true - anyone who doesn't abide (continue in and grow in trust) is cut off.

But don't take that verse apart from all the other verses! That would only create fear!

Instead, you have to understand that verse in tandem with all the other verses.

Has God told the truth that anyone who doesn't remain in and grow in trust will be cut off? Yes. He always tells the truth. So as you see your trust in Him always increasing, this should not make you fear you will be cut off - it should make you see that since He is increasing your faith, He is seeing to it that this DOESN'T happen to you! It should cause MORE trust, not less, when you see Him doing this in you (growing your trust)!
Click to expand...
ok, this is what I hear by what you are saying,

One has to continue to abide (do that work) or they will be cut off (lose salvation)

how can I resolve that with the fact God said he will not fail, he will continue to work, and he will not let go.

So my issue? it is not that I have not read the verse, it is that I can not resolve the two..

so how do I resolve them?

I know how I would resolve them, how do you?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#31,209
Jul 3, 2015
60,185
29,488
113
#31,209
Rosemaryx said:
Thank you Magenta:eek:...Not only a beautiful song but the pictures are amazing to the song...I am alive:) and my Spiritual eyes are wide open, and i hear Him say to me "Follow me " and i say YES Lord...xox...
Click to expand...
Yes and amen, and you are welcome, Rosemary :) I thought the opening lines especially appropriate for you after I read some of your earlier posts from today, having to go back several pages to do so, and that was a couple of hours ago, and more pages have accumulated since. My goodness this is a hopping thread LOL :) I love Matt Maher for the music he makes for the Lord. Here is another I hope you enjoy, also :D

[video=youtube;LuvfMDhTyMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuvfMDhTyMA[/video]​
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#31,211
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#31,211
eternally-gratefull said:
ok, this is what I hear by what you are saying,

One has to continue to abide (do that work) or they will be cut off (lose salvation)

how can I resolve that with the fact God said he will not fail, he will continue to work, and he will not let go.

So my issue? it is not that I have not read the verse, it is that I can not resolve the two..

so how do I resolve them?

I know how I would resolve them, how do you?
Click to expand...
I resolve them exactly how I did in my above post. If one does not abide/continue and grow in trust, they are cut off, but He has never done anything but increase my trust, so why would I then distrust that He will keep doing so? If He had ever failed to keep increasing and growing my trust, I might have reason to fear He may stop, but He has never decreased my trust, never once, He has only ever grown it, so to see that He has faithfully done this makes me not fear the verse but instead trust Him more! It gives me MORE security, not LESS!
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#31,212
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#31,212
Stunned...

Nothing can separate us from the love of God found in Christ Jesus....we are one with Him in Spirit. Abiding always.

Meggidos post. My spin on his gem.
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#31,214
May 3, 2017
3,757
4,120
113
63
#31,214
Grace777x70 said:
Time ran out:

I was adding that in every denomination the Lord is revealing His love and grace to those that have a heart for knowing God - to those that have Christ in them.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus ) because they could not live this religious "sinless perfection in the flesh" Christian life that was being preached to them by some people.

They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

The Lord is bringing His beloved back to Him. Let's not have the judgmental works-based older brother who doesn't know the heart and true nature of the Father to meet them at the door of our churches instead of having the Father meet them.

I believe in preaching the love and grace of God in Christ so that believers will have the proper nutrients to grow up in Christ.

We need to build the firm foundation in Him first before we bring on the warning scriptures because we can speak of them in the wrong light and if we are not built on the foundation of Christ Himself and His finished work on the cross - it can cause us to become ship-wrecked.

Speaking the warning scriptures to those with that firm foundation in Christ is needed and they should be heeded and then they become a blessing to us and keep us centered on Christ and His life and not on the flesh with it's deceitfulness.

Walk by the flesh in this life and we will bring destruction of some sort in all our lives - from living a homosexual lifestyle to outbursts of anger, to malice, to envy, to the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are all in the same lists together.

Let's preach and teach the love and grace of God so that we can grow up in Christ.
Click to expand...
I agree about the warnings to new Christians...I know i have been saved 22 months but i am still new to a lot of things...I have learned more about ship wreck faith in here and the knowledge that it can happen then what i have seen in my Bible...It made me shaky because i am not grown in the Lord yet to deal with these things, on saying that, it was not the Lord who led me to know this either, it was me who went deeper into it and started to become confused...I just want to be led by the Holy Spirit as i read the word, He will bring things to me on what i need, and right now i need to learn more about Grace, Forgiveness and Salvation although i do believe i understand the meaning of God calling me to the cross through His Grace...xox...
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#31,215
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#31,215
stonesoffire said:
Actually this is wrong. It sounds like our work again. See how easy that is?

To realize that we are one with Him through His Spirit within.
Click to expand...
I think that if that is how you define remaining and growing in trust, then it's fine if it works for you and helps you to run your race with greater and greater endurance of trust. :)
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#31,217
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#31,217
Magenta said:
Two hundred posts in this thread can happen in a day.

Everybody else had not forgotten. You bear false witness.
Click to expand...
Ooookay, maybe everybody didn't forget.

But 200 posts away.....

He still didn't practice what he preached..... and he was the first to say we all should calm down.

 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#31,218
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#31,218
David Jernigan/ To Be Loved

[video=youtube;89nByrf-Vks]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89nByrf-Vks[/video]
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#31,219
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#31,219
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stunnedbygrace again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.