Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

it is a quandry, isn't it?

and yet so many of the you DON'T need works (they do not seem to understand what the works are and I will post that another time) seem to be very keen on having a MINISTRY of great importance with all the sign gifts, gifts of the Holy Spirit, miracles following (if you can call laughing hysterically for no reason and braying like a donkey a miracle) and dancing and generally have a grand old time that never stands up to the day to day grind of life and god forbid that God would ever just have a regular good ole life like He does for most of us because we need to learn to STAND before we can walk and certainly walk, which is so boring compared to running or flying like a eagle

I may not make sense in the above but I am convinced a few might get it...LOL!

if works are required. Grace is nullifed,

true faith works. False faith does not

people who have no works are not saved not because of lack of work, it lack of fair (James 2)

we do not see need of works works because we see need of the cross, to our self righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's a very good analogy.

Think of it like this: So many people claiming to be immersed in a baptism of the Holy Spirit in a saving relationship with God through Christ, yet they don't have a drop of Holy Spirit visible on them--no kindness, no patience, no self control...

The person who claims to be baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit ought to have the evidence of that immersion showing somewhere in his life.

"6Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did." (1 John 2:6 NIV)

“Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” (2 Timothy 2:19 NIV)


​

Works are required in salvation exactly in the way John and Paul say they must in the verses above. And they do not mean works earn salvation. If you say you have been baptized into Christ it has to show somewhere.

Then they are hearers of the word not doers, and their lack of faith have left them dead to Christ,

it it is not lack of works which caused that, it was lack of faith. And they did. It lose salvation, they never had it.

Faith is he key word, not works, that is where people get it wrong they want to focus on self (works) not the cross (faith)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What people claim and what is are two different things.

On the opposite end, people are able to feign love, kindness, generosity etc.,, quite well in my experience.

So which one is saved...do you know?

Amen, the point James made in his section me chapters what is a person CLAIMED t have faith but has no work can that faith (claimed) save him?

Notice, James did not say can.it keep himsavd, he sad can it save him, the person has yet to be saved.

 

[PHart]

PHart,
[...]
The focus is not on our belief to save, but our belief in the One who saveD us.

I mean we are saved by our faith exactly the way Jesus means it:

"50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”" (Luke 7:50 NASB)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Two things...

1) Peter denied Christ 3x and most Christians believe he is saved.

2) Peter's belief came in increments. As he ran into the tomb (after he denied Christ) he believed. This is actually quite common in the gospels, you see "they believed" and then a few chapters later they talk about believing more.

Why does this matter? Because the first time was what they had to give, but the effects of their belief increased as they heard His voice more and more.

Many today are not taught they can be lead by His Spirit so they are not walking as sons.

Paul was surprised when people didn't immediately follow Christ perfectly too. But there is Discipleship needed which releases grace to walk after the Spirit in newness of life.

Yet some theologians diminish the power of salvation to account for lack of fruit instead of what Christ declares: lack of discipleship.

Like the days of the Pharisees many are discipled by what traditions say Scripture says or doesn't say instead of being discipled to have a relationship with the Author.

As a result many argue over Scripture traditions instead of living the fruit of His message and following His Spirit.

Peter was called a believer in john 6' jesus considered him saved,

it was his failure and jesus unmerited forgiveness on the beach which made him strong,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You must close your eyes much if this is the ultimate one that makes you want to take a break....

I think your the one who has eyes closed if you can not see how horrific your judgment tal post was,

 

[stonesoffire]

I mean we are saved by our faith exactly the way Jesus means it:

"50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”" (Luke 7:50 NASB)


[/QUOTE}

That was for healing...which is part of salvation, but not how you are using it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I mean we are saved by our faith exactly the way Jesus means it:

"50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”" (Luke 7:50 NASB)

So was jesus right,

your faith HAS SAVED you? (Saved is perfect tense, means it is a complete action,)

or did he mean your faith might might save you? I.e., it can be lost or must be maintained?

 

[Magenta]

Two things...

1) Peter denied Christ 3x and most Christians believe he is saved.

2) Peter's belief came in increments. As he ran into the tomb (after he denied Christ) he believed. This is actually quite common in the gospels, you see "they believed" and then a few chapters later they talk about believing more.

Why does this matter? Because the first time was what they had to give, but the effects of their belief increased as they heard His voice more and more.

Many today are not taught they can be lead by His Spirit so they are not walking as sons.

Paul was surprised when people didn't immediately follow Christ perfectly too. But there is Discipleship needed which releases grace to walk after the Spirit in newness of life.

Yet some theologians diminish the power of salvation to account for lack of fruit instead of what Christ declares: lack of discipleship.

Like the days of the Pharisees many are discipled by what traditions say Scripture says or doesn't say instead of being discipled to have a relationship with the Author.

As a result many argue over Scripture traditions instead of living the fruit of His message and following His Spirit.

Though Peter walked with Jesus as He taught for approximately three years, we must remember also that the Holy Spirit of God was not given to them until after the resurrection of Jesus, following His crucifixion and burial

 

[Magenta]

it is a quandry, isn't it?

and yet so many of the you DON'T need works (they do not seem to understand what the works are and I will post that another time)

You don't seem to understand what is being said, for we maintain that we are saved to do good works, not saved by our good works. It is a distinction that requires discernment. Good works naturally follow salvation in the process of sanctification, which is the work of the Holy Spirit of God in our lives.

 

[Cee]

In case I was unclear, I do believe Peter believed in Jesus before he denied Him. The point of that comment was that Peter believed more and more in who Jesus was through relationship. God accepts the belief we can give, consider the man who said Lord help my unbelief, and He grows us from there.

When Jesus asked His disciples if they would leave too, they said You alone have words of life.

But later... When Jesus wasn't found in the tomb, Scripture says the two believed...

And even later... When Jesus spoke to them plainly, the disciples said now we believe...

But Jesus didn't wait for them to FULLY believe before He called them a disciple....

They were disciples before hand... and we even see growth in Peter and even doubting Thomas... as they grew through relationship with God... and even after Holy Spirit is given.

And so it ALSO is with us.

 

[Cee]

Totally agree.

It's also said as, Your faith has made you well.

This also goes back to what I said about the Greek word for saved being delivered and healed as well. Its a triune reality.

I mean we are saved by our faith exactly the way Jesus means it:

"50And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”" (Luke 7:50 NASB)


[/QUOTE}

That was for healing...which is part of salvation, but not how you are using it.

 

[loveme1]

I think your the one who has eyes closed if you can not see how horrific your judgment tal post was,

I do not have any guilt.... I don't enjoy being the person having to tell people they are deceived but no guilt.

 

[loveme1]

Hi loveme1...Thank you so much for considering my post, now i can read along ...Your kindness is much appreciated...xox...

Be patient with me.. I am making an effort with you in mind.. thank you for politely letting me know, much appreciated.

 

[BillG]

I do not have any guilt.... I don't enjoy being the person having to tell people they are deceived but no guilt.

Then I assume you don't mind if it's reciprocated?

 

[loveme1]

Then I assume you don't mind if it's reciprocated?

Oh gosh... you all have a set for yourselves and a set for others. I really am not going to entangle myself with the hypocrisy... so say and do as you are led and let the Truth of GOD be revealed in our humility.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not have any guilt.... I don't enjoy being the person having to tell people they are deceived but no guilt.

Then you should be more worried, and you show the problem in most chat rooms, people love to attack others, and claim they are deceived. When a lot of people would think they themselves are deceived.

Round and round. Where it stops no body knows.

Well ill it won't stop until people,show some humility,

 

[loveme1]

I would witness to the truth of the article also. And I too know I have Holy Spirit. And He has me.

Then we have established we are not led of the same Spirit.. For only one is Holy...

the power of is undeniable and I will continue Therin by GOD's Grace.

Many likes and supportive posts will not change the Truth of the matter.

Let GOD be true and all men liars.

 

[BillG]

Oh gosh... you all have a set for yourselves and a set for others. I really am not going to entangle myself with the hypocrisy... so say and do as you are led and let the Truth of GOD be revealed in our humility.

I don't get your first sentence.
Would you mind expanding for me please.

 

[loveme1]

I don't get your first sentence.
Would you mind expanding for me please.

Bill, im sure you are smart enough to consider it a little longer and if then you still understand not... you never will.