Not By Works

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Here's a Scripture to believe.

Let's let Jesus answer this question.

I'll even pull out the red letters on this one.

John 6:28Therefore they said to Him, “What must we do, that we may be doing the works of God?”

John 6:
29Jesus answered and said to them,
“This is the work of God, that you should believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Not in dispute.. all goes in perfect harmony... all affirming to the Truth.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Everything He did, He did it for His sheep, and He did it to the fullest. These sheep will never have a need of anything, as He is their provider. He loved them to the end. Plus, He knows His sheep by name, and they follow His voice. When they hear His voice, they run to Him.
The real fear being preached here is the condemnation and conviction of sin people are feeling
is too hard to bare, and the words saying resolve these issues must be blanked out.

My friends, conviction of sin and the desire to resolve issues is from God and the Holy Spirit.
To resist such things is rebellion and rejecting Christ and His message.

So great is the burden you are carrying, "Sov" wants to distract and avoid resolution, because
he feels only defeat and anguish down that road.

And if Christ and the cross was not there I would agree with Him, but I know Christ and the cross
and its healing, restoring effect on my soul and spirit. Lay your burdens down at the foot of the
cross and accept His forgiveness. You will then know the meaning of rising in praise and worship
empowered to serve others and do good works to demonstrate the glory of this gospel of grace.

Halleluyah, God is good.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,268
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The problem of being caught in sin

Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
Galatians 6:1

Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.
1 Tim 5:19-20

Now in the world of rest and lawlessness, none of this is taken as true as there
is nothing to reprove or correct as there is no moral or behavioural standard.

This is the heresy that is being presented, you are so secure in Christ unless you
just accept and do whatever you like, you are an unsaved sinner who does not
trust Christ enough.

Another way of putting this, stay a sinner, you have no choice anyway, so believe
the words, God will make good, only He can.
we are sinners. believers and non-believers alike. no one is sinless and perfect. not you, not me, not anyone.

God's standards are laid out very clearly. if one does not keep all of them all of time, then one is a sinner.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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we are sinners. believers and non-believers alike. no one is sinless and perfect. not you, not me, not anyone.

God's standards are laid out very clearly. if one does not keep all of them all of time, then one is a sinner.
This is certainly one perspective.

Another is Gods perspective. He declares the washed clean are clean and their righteousness
becomes eternal, as long as they stay faithful to Him.

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
Ezek 18:21-22

So the principle is repent, turn away from all the sins commited, and walks in obedience,
they are saved.

Now one is defiled by sinful behaviour, but if one repents you are made clean again.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

So confession of our sins in Christ, purifies us from all unrighteousness.

It appears you do not believe we stand clean through repentance and confession.

Ofcourse it is up to you what you believe, but scripture is clear.

The reason for the temple and sacrifices was to show though this is a learning experience
through many ups and downs God provides a way of resolution and restitution if one takes it
with a good heart.

The heresy is to say this is all a farce, so give up. It is the way of the world and lawlessness,
but it needs to be said, because it is the obvious position to take, especially if in ones heart
there are mountains that feel impossible to move or resolve.

Make no mistake, there are many mountains in all our lives, but we can and do change, given
the right ingredients, the Holy Spirit, love and the gospel being the best.

Now many before us have walked this road to resolution and meeting Christ, so can we.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
we are sinners. believers and non-believers alike. no one is sinless and perfect. not you, not me, not anyone.

God's standards are laid out very clearly. if one does not keep all of them all of time, then one is a sinner.

There is good news GOD sent His Son that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

By Grace Through Faith we are born again of an incorruptible seed that is subject to GOD's Law. We make the Messiah's Testimony our foundation and walk in the light. Loving and provoking each other to good works as we see the day approaching.

So until the last Trump where the mortal puts on the immortal we walk by the power and Grace of GOD.

By Christs blood our conscience is purged from dead works to serve the living GOD in Spirit and Truth.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,268
6,639
113
This is certainly one perspective.

Another is Gods perspective. He declares the washed clean are clean and their righteousness
becomes eternal, as long as they stay faithful to Him.

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
Ezek 18:21-22

So the principle is repent, turn away from all the sins commited, and walks in obedience,
they are saved.

Now one is defiled by sinful behaviour, but if one repents you are made clean again.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

So confession of our sins in Christ, purifies us from all unrighteousness.

It appears you do not believe we stand clean through repentance and confession.

Ofcourse it is up to you what you believe, but scripture is clear.

The reason for the temple and sacrifices was to show though this is a learning experience
through many ups and downs God provides a way of resolution and restitution if one takes it
with a good heart.

The heresy is to say this is all a farce, so give up. It is the way of the world and lawlessness,
but it needs to be said, because it is the obvious position to take, especially if in ones heart
there are mountains that feel impossible to move or resolve.

Make no mistake, there are many mountains in all our lives, but we can and do change, given
the right ingredients, the Holy Spirit, love and the gospel being the best.

Now many before us have walked this road to resolution and meeting Christ, so can we.
no, it is not " perspective " it is reality. no one is sinless, according to the Biblical definition of sin.

let me explain it like this- you are supposed to be at a certain place at 10:am. you do not arrive until 10: 15. well, you are late. you missed the mark, you fell short of a standard, you knew what to do, but failed to do so.

it could be 100% not your fault. that does not matter. you missed it. no feelings and emotions needed. in theory, if being late was s sin, then no matter the reason, you sinned by being late.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Philippians 2

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. 17Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all. 18For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me.


Did I just read this right? Work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling...

Obey in my absence as you have in my presence...

Hold forth the word of life...

For it is GOD which works in you...

Is PeterJens an heretic?

Or is he not sharing similar things as written above?
Peter is saying paul is telling us to work to earn our salvation.

Paul is telling us to work out the result of our salvation.

The context is sharing Christ to others, and being a light to the world. If we do things which discredit our character, we put our light out, Because the world can use our actions against us. Paul is saying act in such a way where no one can bring a charge against you, i.e., Work out (the greek word is used in mining operations, where you work out, or mine the minerals in the ground, so they can be used.)

I.e., Paul is saying """"""""work out YOUR salvation" (it is in your posession), Not work to earn your salvation (it is not yours yet) which is what Peter is claiming it says,

so the answer to your question would be YES.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
no, it is not " perspective " it is reality. no one is sinless, according to the Biblical definition of sin.

let me explain it like this- you are supposed to be at a certain place at 10:am. you do not arrive until 10: 15. well, you are late. you missed the mark, you fell short of a standard, you knew what to do, but failed to do so.

it could be 100% not your fault. that does not matter. you missed it. no feelings and emotions needed. in theory, if being late was s sin, then no matter the reason, you sinned by being late.

What they do not understand is by using your example. We can not be on time, Thats why we need christ, because we can not be their on time no matter how hard we try, we still miss the mark.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,919
9,667
113
I did a good work today. Brewed a cup of coffee.. :)

Too bad it won't save me or get me into heaven. ;) :(

LOL
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Peter is saying paul is telling us to work to earn our salvation.

Paul is telling us to work out the result of our salvation.

The context is sharing Christ to others, and being a light to the world. If we do things which discredit our character, we put our light out, Because the world can use our actions against us. Paul is saying act in such a way where no one can bring a charge against you, i.e., Work out (the greek word is used in mining operations, where you work out, or mine the minerals in the ground, so they can be used.)

I.e., Paul is saying """"""""work out YOUR salvation" (it is in your posession), Not work to earn your salvation (it is not yours yet) which is what Peter is claiming it says,

so the answer to your question would be YES.

For a moment I thought you spoke of Peter the Apostle.

So we are to do good as in shine the light given or it will go out? So they are to work out their own Salvation by doing good? What are they to continue to obey?

If your light goes out you still have Salvation but can not shine the Light on others without being good? Is that what you mean correct me if I'm wrong.
 
P

PHart

Guest
I did a good work today. Brewed a cup of coffee.. :)

Too bad it won't save me or get me into heaven. ;) :(

LOL
No, but if you did it because your sins are forgiven in Christ then it will be the evidence of that forgiveness at the resurrection.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,919
9,667
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Dude... :rolleyes:

I did it because I wanted a cup of coffee.. lol

EG, Dcon, somebody, fill phart in on my humor. :eek:


No, but if you did it because your sins are forgiven in Christ then it will be the evidence of that forgiveness at the resurrection.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Peter is saying paul is telling us to work to earn our salvation.

Paul is telling us to work out the result of our salvation.

The context is sharing Christ to others, and being a light to the world. If we do things which discredit our character, we put our light out, Because the world can use our actions against us. Paul is saying act in such a way where no one can bring a charge against you, i.e., Work out (the greek word is used in mining operations, where you work out, or mine the minerals in the ground, so they can be used.)

I.e., Paul is saying """"""""work out YOUR salvation" (it is in your posession), Not work to earn your salvation (it is not yours yet) which is what Peter is claiming it says,

so the answer to your question would be YES.
Here we have a problem. I am not saying you earn your salvation. That is your interpretation
of my position.

A racing car driver races cars.
A carpenter creates things out of wood.
A christian follows Christ.

If you do not do what you are, you are not what you claim to be.

This is an easy concept to accept, yet in the area of faith, it is claimed you can
be a believer and not follow Christ.

I do not understand why people say this, except they find it impossible to follow Christ
but still have faith, so their compromise is believe and fail to follow is ok.

It cannot be otherwise, or else why are they so determined to argue otherwise.
If sin is so difficult to not do, why does Paul and everyone talk about rebuking believers
who are caught in sin, if not the implication this is meant to be rare and not expected.

How else do you explain this language?

Jesus did not set us free from sin, so that we might get entangled in it again.

If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 2:20

Who are these people who are causing so many problems

They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”
2 Peter 2:19

The heresy is subtle, using the weakness of sinners in discipleship to claim the walk
of self denial is futile and works salvation, is certainly appealing to those who want
a quick exit, and to give up resolving all issues in Christ.

But again, the theme is long term believers who have had bad experiences in the faith,
and come to this resolution. I fully understand why, I just do not agree this is spiritual
reality. But the Lord provides all resolution, and calls His people to honour everyone
and listen to Him.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What they do not understand is by using your example. We can not be on time, Thats why we need christ, because we can not be their on time no matter how hard we try, we still miss the mark.
We need Christ, not to be on time, but because love is the core essence of Life and God
is love. Without loving people throughout all our experiences nothing makes sense or gets
the right focus.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
The power of GOD is given when we believe.. it is to have Faith and Trust in Heavenly Father through Christ.

If you read the Old Testament you will see that David does not defeat Goliath.. it is GOD through David because of His Faith.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,919
9,667
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Uhhhh, David KILLED Goliath. Sounds like defeat to me.. lol


The power of GOD is given when we believe.. it is to have Faith and Trust in Heavenly Father through Christ.

If you read the Old Testament you will see that David does not defeat Goliath.. it is GOD through David because of His Faith.
 
Mar 11, 2016
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Singapore
abigail.pro
Good morning, my neighbors! AMEN to this below.

To those who are doing their very best to hold onto the Christ with all their might. Are you finding it harder with each passing day to hold onto Him? Is your grip loosening?

Do you feel alone and that no one is there to help you work your way to the glory land?


Well cheer up my friends. There is hope for you yet!

There is a man named Jesus, and He will take your load and carry it for you, and will be within and with you.

Everything He did, He did it for His sheep, and He did it to the fullest. These sheep will never have a need of anything, as He is their provider. He loved them to the end. Plus, He knows His sheep by name, and they follow His voice. When they hear His voice, they run to Him.

So take courage and be strong my friends! We have One who fights our battles for us. Get behind the shield that is Him.

And come and rest with us, as we rest in Him.
If we take a trip to the other forums, especially teens and family, we'll find there's so many more bound by the chains of merit-based righteousness.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Sovereign, you are full of so much anger.

Your argument is, stay a sinner and trust Christ when you meet Him will sort it out.

This is the way of the world. You are ok, nothing to do here, just get your sticky
label, trusting in Christ, and it is all safe.

Without the heart transformation demonstrated in ones life, all is lost.
You can only get away with your gospel in a fairly moral society.

People can con themselves there is nothing really to sort out.

What is staggering is the anger, the vehemence, the aggression.
None of these things are from the Spirit of God.

It demonstrates the heresy hidden within all the religious words and how threatened
it is really feeling.
No anger at all. Just sadness. Sadness because you trust in yourself to remain saved. I trust in the risen Christ to keep me saved.

#HUGEdifference