Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

1Joh 2v4 - He that says 'I know him and keeps not his Commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
Are you going to argue with scripture as you do with me ?

I hope the Holy Spirit you claim to have in you will lead you into obedience to the one who is author of salvation Heb5v9. God bless you Dan, God wants us all to be ONE with Him.

Are you perfect? Because if you sin, you have failed to keep his commandments, thus you must also be a liar.

Or actually, you are using that verse out of context to support your own legalistic belief system.

I would suggest you take jesus advice, and make sure you have no sin before you go casting stones and mailmandan and others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Please show me book, chapter and verse in the Bible that the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday. History shows us Constantine made a law and changed the day in AD 321 and the Roman Papacy confirmed this change at the council of Laodicea and affirmed the decision in AD 364.

This is not about returning to the law its about being a student of church history that you seem to ignore. Now show us all anywhere in the Bible the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday.

Just because history disagrees with your tradition and rules, does not mean history is wrong.

the sabbath days is a day of rest, Not a day to go to church. When you go to church, you are working, and causing other people to work (the people who are putting together the church service)

The nt churhc met on the first day of the week, they also took up an offering on that day. So churhc on Sunday has precedence. And people who do it or not replacing the sabbath, the only people who claim this are sabbath fanatics who do not understand what the true sabbath really is.

 

[Magenta]

But here you are demanding people do it on Sunday. That is the whole hypocrisy that phart just exposed.

I saw no such demand in Dan's post. The hypocrisy is yours, in one post claiming:

God cares less about the day and about spirit and truth and heart condition.

And in the next saying something completely contrary to that position.

Now get spitting mad and let your heads explode, and come after all of us, but you are being led to worship on a day, changed by people you really disagree with and not found anywhere in the Bible or the New Covenant. That does not change the truth, it just challenges your version of your truth, your traditions and your pride.

I wonder your head does not explode with all your contradictions.

 

[joefizz]

Please show me book, chapter and verse in the Bible that the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday. History shows us Constantine made a law and changed the day in AD 321 and the Roman Papacy confirmed this change at the council of Laodicea and affirmed the decision in AD 364.

This is not about returning to the law its about being a student of church history that you seem to ignore. Now show us all anywhere in the Bible the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday.

Just because history disagrees with your tradition and rules, does not mean history is wrong.

very well how about I go over their heads straight to Jesus for he said"The sabbath was made for man not man made for the sabbath",for the pharisees criticized Jesus and his disciples for acts that seemed wrong to them on the sabbath,such as Jesus healing people on the sabbath or his disciples taking some corn from a field,The sabbath has been and always will be a rest day not just a commandment by God,for how can one forget that God made the sabbath "Originally" for man to rest from work,for he saw that man would work themselves to death if left to their own works without a "reason" to rest,so he made the sabbath,but he also said to keep it holy by "not working" and appreciate what one had worked for as well as God giving such rest to man,true it is not quite wrong to observe the sabbath and try to keep from sinfulness,but come on "Hell" for not keeping the sabbath day holy?
who came up with that rubbish I do wonder,for Jesus was sent because none could keep the law of past nor fulfill it but he himself,since when is Hell such an easy thing to become one's fate,seeing as that Jesus obtained the keys of hell as well,and also notice something,Jesus didn't condemn nor kill any person for not keeping the sabbath day holy,so how does it make one condemned to hell when even Jesus did not condemn people because of it?
seeing as that it is written.....Luke Chp.17 verses26-30"And as it was in the days of Noe,so shall it be also in the days of the son of man.
They did eat,they drank,they married wives,they were given in marriage,until the day that Noe entered into the ark,and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot;they did eat they drank,they bought,they sold,they planted,they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven,and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be when the son of man is revealed."
my point in these scriptures is that Jesus was pretty much telling that is no surprise that man was going to continue to be sinful and die in their sins due to God's condemnation,but notice that though he was God in the flesh not once did he condemn or kill any person over the sabbath day,God did in times past for even something as simple as picking up sticks,but Jesus did not,Why,because he was bringing us blessings instead of condemnation,mercy instead of death,a promise fulfilled instead of a promise not kept,and tell me who there after that Jesus was crucified,resurrected and ascended,were condemned ttoby death by God for not keeping the sabbath day if it was still such a death worthy or hell worthy sin?
because I certainly haven't read of this individual if it's true?
,I have read enough to know that none died for not keeping the sabbath after Jesus ascended into heaven,so just where is any cause to amplify not keeping the sabbath holy as hell worthy or death worthy when the bible says different,only one sin is unforgiveable,blaspheming the holy spirit,and only 7 aside from this are abominable to God,and none are of not keeping the sabbath day holy.

 

[He_reigns]

let me help you with your history lessons- the whole world was never under the Old Covenant or the Torah. only Israel.
what do you think the word proselyte was used to describe gentiles who converted to Judaism ? why would they have to convert to something they were already a part of?

Agree with you. My point is that the Sabbath was not changed to Sunday anywhere in the Bible or part of the New Covenant.

Sorry if I was not clear.

 

[dcontroversal]

doesnt hebrews say that sacrifices never took away sin? im in a spot now i cant check this out from the old testament, does it say those sacrifices remit their sins? can someone check it out for me. thanks uce.

The sacrifices never took away sin, but temprorarily covered and pointed to Christ and the complete remission of sins found in him....they were pictorial of Jesus and the complete scope of what would be found and covered under his blood.

 

[He_reigns]

the sabbath days is a day of rest, Not a day to go to church. When you go to church, you are working, and causing other people to work (the people who are putting together the church service)

The nt churhc met on the first day of the week, they also took up an offering on that day. So churhc on Sunday has precedence. And people who do it or not replacing the sabbath, the only people who claim this are sabbath fanatics who do not understand what the true sabbath really is.

Who changed the day of going to church from Saturday to Sunday? Where in the Bible is going to church on Sunday located at?Which book, chapter and verse in he Bible does it say the went to church on the first day of the week?

You are not quoting Bible, you are quoting tradition set by Constantine and the RCC, google it>

This does not mean I do not go to church on Sunday or I am a sabbath keeper for Saturday, but it does mean you are blind or ignorant or both of how the tradition of going to church on Sunday actually happened.

It is not found anywhere in the Bible that they went to church on the first day of the week. If it does, then show me black, white or red and I will state I am wrong.

 

[He_reigns]

How about this one?

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils

Did he have church with Mary that morning and with the others?

 

[dcontroversal]

by round 5? Was it a fight?

Maybe you should realize that it is indeed a war between light and darkness, true and false, right and wrong, good and evil....God and the arch enemy of God and men!!!

Stand prepared for battle
Armored up
Sword of the spirit
Contend for the faith

I suppose you think this is all nothing more than Saturday morning cartoons with a bowl of sugar frosted chocolate bombs and full cream milk?

5 ROUNDS OF DISCUSSION cake taker!

 

[dcontroversal]

The Source of LOVE is GOD HIMSELF:

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out
in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


1 John 4:8 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Sure....one of three listed in 1st Corinthians 13....never said the source was not God!

 

[He_reigns]

very well how about I go over their heads straight to Jesus for he said"The sabbath was made for man not man made for the sabbath",for the pharisees criticized Jesus and his disciples for acts that seemed wrong to them on the sabbath,such as Jesus healing people on the sabbath or his disciples taking some corn from a field,The sabbath has been and always will be a rest day not just a commandment by God,for how can one forget that God made the sabbath "Originally" for man to rest from work,for he saw that man would work themselves to death if left to their own works without a "reason" to rest,so he made the sabbath,but he also said to keep it holy by "not working" and appreciate what one had worked for as well as God giving such rest to man,true it is not quite wrong to observe the sabbath and try to keep from sinfulness,but come on "Hell" for not keeping the sabbath day holy?
who came up with that rubbish I do wonder,for Jesus was sent because none could keep the law of past nor fulfill it but he himself,since when is Hell such an easy thing to become one's fate,seeing as that Jesus obtained the keys of hell as well,and also notice something,Jesus didn't condemn nor kill any person for not keeping the sabbath day holy,so how does it make one condemned to hell when even Jesus did not condemn people because of it?
seeing as that it is written.....Luke Chp.17 verses26-30"And as it was in the days of Noe,so shall it be also in the days of the son of man.
They did eat,they drank,they married wives,they were given in marriage,until the day that Noe entered into the ark,and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot;they did eat they drank,they bought,they sold,they planted,they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven,and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be when the son of man is revealed."
my point in these scriptures is that Jesus was pretty much telling that is no surprise that man was going to continue to be sinful and die in their sins due to God's condemnation,but notice that though he was God in the flesh not once did he condemn or kill any person over the sabbath day,God did in times past for even something as simple as picking up sticks,but Jesus did not,Why,because he was bringing us blessings instead of condemnation,mercy instead of death,a promise fulfilled instead of a promise not kept,and tell me who there after that Jesus was crucified,resurrected and ascended,were condemned ttoby death by God for not keeping the sabbath day if it was still such a death worthy or hell worthy sin?
because I certainly haven't read of this individual if it's true?
,I have read enough to know that none died for not keeping the sabbath after Jesus ascended into heaven,so just where is any cause to amplify not keeping the sabbath holy as hell worthy or death worthy when the bible says different,only one sin is unforgiveable,blaspheming the holy spirit,and only 7 aside from this are abominable to God,and none are of not keeping the sabbath day holy.

nothing here discounts or disproves what I have asked. Now tell me Joe, who changed the day to go to church from Saturday to Sunday? where is it at in the Bible? Google Constantine and his Sunday keeping law of March 7, AD 321. The google the council of Laodicea of AD 364.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are the man that teaches in church with a 9 on his hip.. preferring to use a name derived closer to the Messiah's Hebrew name is hardly a fear..

So what...you like others PROBABLY think it makes you more spiritual in your working for false religion.....And almost everyone I know packs heat....so your first point carries as much weight as my boots after I come out of the cattle pen.......same smell as well!

 

[dcontroversal]

Please show me book, chapter and verse in the Bible that the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday. History shows us Constantine made a law and changed the day in AD 321 and the Roman Papacy confirmed this change at the council of Laodicea and affirmed the decision in AD 364.

This is not about returning to the law its about being a student of church history that you seem to ignore. Now show us all anywhere in the Bible the Apostles changed the date from Saturday to Sunday.

Just because history disagrees with your tradition and rules, does not mean history is wrong.

Constantine.....hahhahha nothing but jokes.....

Acts 20:7, 1st Corinthians 16:1-2

 

[dcontroversal]

Of course I respectfully disagree with this statement. For one, there is not one piece of evidence in the entire Bible that suggests satan ever tried to deceive someone into "obeying God". It tricks people into disobeying while believing they are serving Him. And it uses God's Words to do this as illustrated by the story of Eve.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These believed in Jesus, declared His name in everything they did. The called JESUS, JESUS. But they were rejected because of their works just the same.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Here is Jesus showing us another "Work" that is necessary for Salvation. Something we must do in order to be saved. This is Jesus speaking here, not me or some religious franchise owner.

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Here is Jesus once again declaring works that are necessary for Salvation. His Word's, not mine.

Matt. 1038 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.:

Here is another "work" that is necessary for Salvation.

Once again, it is not me who opposes your statement, it is the Jesus of the Bible.

There used to be a Levitical Priesthood which was a separate law given to one tribe of Israel that was to used for the justification and remission of sins. This Levitical Priesthood (LP) had ceremonial, sacrificial "Deeds and Works" that were performed by the Levite Priests for the justification of sins. This LP was "ADDED" until the Seed should come. But the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of Jesus' time didn't believe. They rejected Jesus as their Messiah and continued to perform the "Law of Moses" as it pertained to the remission of sins.

Paul is explaining to the Gentiles in Rom. 3 about these LP "works or Deeds of the Law" for remission and justification of sins.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The LP is no longer here since we are in the new covenant. Jesus is our High Priest. Now we are justified by Grace through Faith, not by the LP Ceremonial, sacrificial "Works or deeds of the Law" for justification and remission of sins.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Why is this important?

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Our works show who our faith is in. Are we faithful to a tradition soaked church that teaches for doctrines the commandments of men? Or are we faithful to God by submitting ourselves to His Righteousness and not our own.

There is one way for us to know for sure if we have been deceived or not.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Did Jesus honor His Father with obedience, law keeping, Sabbath keeping? Yes He did, there can be no denying that.

Did Jesus forgive sins by "Works or Deeds" of the Levitical Priesthood? No He did not. He forgave those whose works showed their faith.

Matt. 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (Her works of faith)
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

I hope you might consider these words, though I know what it means to Mainstream Doctrine.

Great thread, thanks for posting

Disagree all you want....I never implied your first line of thought...so anything after that is moot and built on something I never said nor implied....try again
..

and their problem was not their works, but rather their foundation..they never trusted Christ to begin with having placed their trust into their own working for cafe blend dogma....and were NEVER SAVED to begin with......! Faith plus works = false dogma no power double cursed and all who espouse are deceived and foolish

 

[phil36]

Who changed the day of going to church from Saturday to Sunday? Where in the Bible is going to church on Sunday located at?Which book, chapter and verse in he Bible does it say the went to church on the first day of the week?

You are not quoting Bible, you are quoting tradition set by Constantine and the RCC, google it>

This does not mean I do not go to church on Sunday or I am a sabbath keeper for Saturday, but it does mean you are blind or ignorant or both of how the tradition of going to church on Sunday actually happened.

It is not found anywhere in the Bible that they went to church on the first day of the week. If it does, then show me black, white or red and I will state I am wrong.

A simple question needs to be asked first.. Are we beholden to the traditional Jewish Sabbath of fri sunset to Sat sunset, since it was a theocracy? Does God Himself dictate it be on a Saturday?

Once you answer the above you will see the church had good reason for the Lord's day to be a day of rest.

It's not rocket science.

 

[dcontroversal]

A simple question needs to be asked first.. Are we beholden to the traditional Jewish Sabbath of fri sunset to Sat sunset, since it was a theocracy? Does God Himself dictate it be on a Saturday?

It's not rocket science.

Amen....the churches met daily in Acts....we are not bound to a DAY OF REST which is not a DAY OF WORSHIP....simple equation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who changed the day of going to church from Saturday to Sunday? Where in the Bible is going to church on Sunday located at?Which book, chapter and verse in he Bible does it say the went to church on the first day of the week?

You are not quoting Bible, you are quoting tradition set by Constantine and the RCC, google it>

This does not mean I do not go to church on Sunday or I am a sabbath keeper for Saturday, but it does mean you are blind or ignorant or both of how the tradition of going to church on Sunday actually happened.

It is not found anywhere in the Bible that they went to church on the first day of the week. If it does, then show me black, white or red and I will state I am wrong.

Where in the bib le does going to churhc on Saturday located? Actually they met daily. And then on the first day of the week, they also met, and collected the offerings.

Either ways, Ity never says they went to church on Saturday, About the closest you will get is paul went to the Jewish meeting place on Saturday, But only because that was when the met, and he could go teach, because he was a Pharisee, which gave him access.

 

[Magenta]

Constantine.....hahhahha nothing but jokes.....

Acts 20:7, 1st Corinthians 16:1-2

1 CORINTHIANS 16:1-2
Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

ACTS 20:7
On the first day of the week, we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

Romans 14:5-6
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

COLOSSIANS 2:16-17
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

GALATIANS 4:8-10
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

 

[Amberlight]

Where in the bib le does going to churhc on Saturday located? Actually they met daily. And then on the first day of the week, they also met, and collected the offerings.

Either ways, Ity never says they went to church on Saturday, About the closest you will get is paul went to the Jewish meeting place on Saturday, But only because that was when the met, and he could go teach, because he was a Pharisee, which gave him access.

Even stranger is that you can go to church ANY day.
Now lets hope this won't blow some minds but actually you can have church at home with a friend(s) or anywhere any time.

 

[dcontroversal]

nothing here discounts or disproves what I have asked. Now tell me Joe, who changed the day to go to church from Saturday to Sunday? where is it at in the Bible? Google Constantine and his Sunday keeping law of March 7, AD 321. The google the council of Laodicea of AD 364.

The churches in Acts met daily....any day and any place is a good day and place to worship God...where 2 or 3 are gathered in my Name...he said...and there is evidence thst they met the 1st day of the week....at least 2 to 3 scriptural references in Acts and Corinthians.....