Due to the quirks of the site I edited this offline and am pasting it to the board. Selecting texts and going back and forth from the browser to get something to paste often times exits me from the open post I was trying to make. Never had this many problems on other forums.
Originally Posted by Endoscopy
Simple theological facts from the Bible.
1. The law is in force according to Jesus.
I never said it wasn't.
2. Sin is transgression of the law.
I never said it wasn't.
(Without the law there is no sin. Paul said the law told him what was sin.)
Romans 7
The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
Magenta
“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression.” Romans 5:14.
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to Whom the promise was made.” Galatians 3:19
The law was added due to transgression, which is sin. You even said so yourself!!
Endoscopy
Backwards and I didn't say that. Go read what I said again. A law always existed. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of the one tree. That was their law. They broke it. Cain and Abel made sacrifices for their sins so there was a law they understood. The Mosaic Law was written by Moses but didn't start with him. He just recorded it. It is not recorded when those laws started. Coming down from Adam to Moses sacrifices were made so there was a known law for those people.
The LAW is the 10 Commandments and all of the 613 mitzvot recorded in the Torah.
Live with what Jesus said!!! Quit taking those verses out of the Bible!!! See below for what Jesus said. Matthew 5:17 to 20.
3. Jesus paid the penalty for our transgressions of the law.
Magenta
And you need to say this because...??? You are deluded if you think this has been disputed by me.
Endoscopy
What need of Jesus crucifixion if the law is not in force. No law then no sin.
Magenta
Gosh. See above. The law was added due to transgression. Transgression is sin.
>>> error 1 Endoscopy
Transgression of what??
Sin is the transgression of the law. Without the law there is no transgression therefore no sin. Therefore the law had to be there first. Paul said that the law told him what was sin. Romans 7:7 to 13 see above.
Endoscopy
What is so hard to understand about these facts Magenta?
Magenta
The law was added due to transgression. Transgression is sin.
Therefore, sin existed before the law was given.
>>> error 2 Endoscopy
Again transgression of what???
What is so hard to understand about this fact, Endoscopy?
Read above at >>> error 1 Endoscopy
Now, back to the point of you refusing to admit that you put words in Jesus' mouth... which is what you kicking up this fuss is all about. Instead of simply admitting you were wrong, you serve up red herrings and dance around trying to distract from that fact. I would rather watch Walter Huston do the jig
Endoscopy
Here are the words I put in Jesus mouth. Keep in mind that the 10 Commandments and the 613 mitzvot are the law recorded in the Torah. You claim that you agree with this.
Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
What words are you saying I put in the mouth of Jesus incorrectly? Sometimes I had more verses ahead of this quote. You confuse me on this point!!!