Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
What Jesus accomplished on the cross and His resurrection was allow us to have our sins (transgress of the law) penalties removed from us IF WE ACCEPT HIS SACRIFICE!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Jesus contradicted the law as those to whom it was given understood it. As far as some of them were concerned, He broke the law and deserved to be stoned to death. If you are saying that we need to keep the 613 mitzvot, you are sorely mistaken, and your theology terribly confused.
Talk about confused theology. You ignore the words of Jesus. Has the heavens and earth disappeared? Has the rapture happened??

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.


The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Magenta you keep ignoring these words of Jesus. Explain why these verses are being misinterpreted!!! I keep posting them and you keep ignoring them!!! Explain why!!!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,364
29,614
113
Magenta you keep ignoring these words of Jesus. Explain why these verses are being misinterpreted!!! I keep posting them and you keep ignoring them!!! Explain why!!!
Are you back to stuffing words in Jesus' mouth that He never said? Are you going to continue to falsely accuse me? How many times need I remind you that my concern was your pretense of quoting Jesus when you do not faithfully represent what He said? Your lack of honesty does not lend itself to discussion. Nor are we under the law (613 mitzvot) given to Israelites. If you think we are, your theology is not Christian. Out of one side of your mouth you claim we are cleansed, while out of the other you seek to condemn. You are one mixed up puppy.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Just what I said: as they understood it.
Got it! I clearly misunderstood you, sorry about that! I would say praie Yah for it is nice to agree with a brother or sister in truth, may Yah bless you sister!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,364
29,614
113
Got it! I clearly misunderstood you, sorry about that! I would say praise Yah for it is nice to agree with a brother or sister in truth, may Yah bless you sister!
Thank you :) May God continue to richly bless you and yours!

[SUB][/SUB]
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
Jesus has set His rules, we, hub and myself, choose to obey them...

to each his own...

we've both been in 'jail' for transgressing at least some of His Ten Commandments,..
wasn't fun, for either of us, but we praise our Saviour for His chastisement which we
bore in His Love for us...
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Are you back to stuffing words in Jesus' mouth that He never said? Are you going to continue to falsely accuse me? How many times need I remind you that my concern was your pretense of quoting Jesus when you do not faithfully represent what He said? Your lack of honesty does not lend itself to discussion. Nor are we under the law (613 mitzvot) given to Israelites. If you think we are, your theology is not Christian. Out of one side of your mouth you claim we are cleansed, while out of the other you seek to condemn. You are one mixed up puppy.
He never said??? What dream world are you inhabiting?? Here the words of Jesus again. Tell me how the law is not in effect today!!! Have heaven and earth disappeared?? Has the rapture happened?? If not according to Jesus the law is in effect since nothing in it has disappeared!!! Start explaining how this quote of Jesus is wrong!!!

Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV


The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
Last edited:

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Theology is supposed to be conformed to the Bible. Not the Bible to theology. Whatever Jesus said is of utmost importance since He is God. Therefore conform your theology to what Jesus said.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
​The law is all of the 613 mitzvot. Live with what Jesus said!!! Quit taking those verses out of the Bible!!!
 
Z
Isn't this the crux of the thread? As some understand the law to be?

If they back then thought Jesus broke the law.. then some today could be forgoing obeying in the same manner
Just what I said: as they understood it.
 
Z
Some will say " it doesn't take all that".. if you've confessed Christ, you aren't working for yourself but unto Him...

In Hebrews they had rejected Jesus and tried to completely save themselves by the law.. that is impossible..
​The law is all of the 613 mitzvot. Live with what Jesus said!!! Quit taking those verses out of the Bible!!!
 
Z
Nothing wrong with choosing to do all you can.

Idk why people hate that so much
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Isn't this the crux of the thread? As some understand the law to be?

If they back then thought Jesus broke the law.. then some today could be forgoing obeying in the same manner
Simple theological facts from the Bible.

1. The law is in force according to Jesus.
2. Sin is transgression of the law. (Without the law there is no sin. Paul said the law told him what was sin.)
3. Jesus paid the penalty for our transgressions of the law.

What need of Jesus crucifixion if the law is not in force. No law then no sin.

What is so hard to understand about these facts Magenta?
 
Nov 12, 2017
203
4
0
Simple theological facts from the Bible.

1. The law is in force according to Jesus.
2. Sin is transgression of the law. (Without the law there is no sin. Paul said the law told him what was sin.)
3. Jesus paid the penalty for our transgressions of the law.

What need of Jesus crucifixion if the law is not in force. No law then no sin.

What is so hard to understand about these facts Magenta?
Jesus Christ paid for all sin. Sin is not the issue.

This is why religion is THE most dangerous thing in this world.

Sin is finished, but not evil. Christ did not pay for evil. This is why we see unbelievers judged according to their WORKS/DEEDS/ERGON and not sins.

unbelievers are judged according to how well they think they did and their 'good' works,which is evil, and are cast into the LoF according to their DEEDS.(not sins)

IOW. They plead their case with their own righteousness and 'good' deeds because they never did trust in Christ alone and His work alone for their salvation.

And NONE will satisfy Gods Justice apart from the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,364
29,614
113
Simple theological facts from the Bible.
1. The law is in force according to Jesus.
I never said it wasn't.

2. Sin is transgression of the law.
I never said it wasn't.

(Without the law there is no sin. Paul said the law told him what was sin.)
Scripture says death reigned from Adam to Moses.

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression.” Romans 5:14.

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to Whom the promise was made.”
Galatians 3:19

The law was added due to transgression, which is sin. You even said so yourself!

3. Jesus paid the penalty for our transgressions of the law.
And you need to say this because...??? You are deluded if you think this has been disputed by me.

What need of Jesus crucifixion if the law is not in force. No law then no sin.
Gosh. See above. The law was added due to transgression. Transgression is sin.

What is so hard to understand about these facts Magenta?
The law was added due to transgression. Transgression is sin.
Therefore, sin existed before the law was given.

What is so hard to understand about this fact, Endoscopy?

Now, back to the point of you refusing to admit that you put words in Jesus' mouth... which is what you kicking up this fuss is all about. Instead of simply admitting you were wrong, you serve up red herrings and dance around trying to distract from that fact. I would rather watch Walter Huston do the jig :)

[video=youtube;3w4B7QxL_n4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w4B7QxL_n4[/video]
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I stand on what Jesus said. Especially verses 17 and 18. Why do so many ignore these verses??

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.


The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
We are born again. Holy Spirit given to us within and gifts given for living a pleasing life before Father by faith. He loves it when we believe what He says. So what written law is necessary when we can converse with Him daily?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."


Then because I do sin does that mean I should then reject every Command of YHWH?

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

or should I:

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love יהוה your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”


1 Yahanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."


Mat 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."


John 15:10, "“If you guard My commands, you shall stay in My love, even as I have guarded My Father’s commands and stay in His love.”


John 14:15, "“If you love Me, you shall guard My commands.”


John 14:21, “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

John 14:23, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him."

It seems to me you place guilt and grace as opponets of obedience to YHWH;s Law. He does not do this. WHy is it that verses about obedience to His law are posted and you reply "you dont keep it!" It is funny to me, there is noting wrong iwth obedience, adn I have never claimed to be without sin yet I do claim to seek obedience to His Law. This is not a bad thing as some would portray it.
Do you keep the law or not...have you kept the law or not...a simple yes or no will suffice....?????
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Again the lawyers and Pharisees fail to understand numerous things...

a. No one keeps the law
b. No one is justified by keeping the law (see a)
c. If you break one of the least you are guilty of the whole (see a)
d. The law is weak through the flesh (see a)
e. The law does not save (see a)
f. The law condemns (see a)
g. The law points to grace, truth and CHRIST (SEE A)
h. The law has been NAILED to the cross (see a)
i. If you live by law keeping you must keep all laws 24/7/365 your whole life or your guilty (see a)
j. NO ONE KEEPS THE LAW AS it shuts every mouth (see a)
k. LAW or GRACE one or the other (see a)
l. Blending law and grace is like oil and water (see a and Galatians chapter 1 and 3)