Not By Works
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N
Well, when duty calls...
Y'all be careful out here, and have fun.
Y'all be careful out here, and have fun.
but i had read the bible more than once
came here with the belief if i have even one sin in my life i am not saved
if there was only others pushing works when i came here
and no debate
i would have agreed posted maybe once and never returned....
God uses this place to help people
im proof of that
and ive seen at least two others
God bless you lynx
but i dont see why you have any issue accepting that this place helps some...
E
Sanctification means to be set apart. Or seperate.
There is positional sanctification. Where we are set apart from the world., and brought into Gods family (this is justification)
there is conditional sanctification, where God works on our lives. So we start to live out our positional sanctification. This takes time, it takes growth, God uses many ways to accomplish this. And it be a process which will go on until we die. Because our conditional sanctification will not meet our positional until we are glorified (recieve our ressurected bodies free from sin)
Our conditional can also vary from day to day. I can have good days and bad days. I can have good seasons and bad seasons also. I can be mature, and because of something in my life. Fall to a prodigal status. And then be brought back to God and again be mature..
There is positional sanctification. Where we are set apart from the world., and brought into Gods family (this is justification)
there is conditional sanctification, where God works on our lives. So we start to live out our positional sanctification. This takes time, it takes growth, God uses many ways to accomplish this. And it be a process which will go on until we die. Because our conditional sanctification will not meet our positional until we are glorified (recieve our ressurected bodies free from sin)
Our conditional can also vary from day to day. I can have good days and bad days. I can have good seasons and bad seasons also. I can be mature, and because of something in my life. Fall to a prodigal status. And then be brought back to God and again be mature..
Either we believe the gospel and we are saved or else we don't believe the gospel and we are not saved. It's not about we must accomplish a certain check list of works of obedience to prove our faith, yet James said we show our faith by our works. James 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
One way that believers show/demonstrate their faith in Christ is in their defense of the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). Those who teach salvation by works show/demonstrate their lack of faith in Christ.
One way that believers show/demonstrate their faith in Christ is in their defense of the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). Those who teach salvation by works show/demonstrate their lack of faith in Christ.
E
Where do you come up with this stuff John??
it is not Jesus faith, It is JESUS WORK I have faith in.
The OT had faith God would take their sin away, they just did not know how.
The gospel has always been by faith through the means of Grace.
the only difference is we KNOW Gods provision, they did not.
it is not Jesus faith, It is JESUS WORK I have faith in.
The OT had faith God would take their sin away, they just did not know how.
The gospel has always been by faith through the means of Grace.
the only difference is we KNOW Gods provision, they did not.
Ad hominem means attack the man as opposed to the issue. It is one of many fallacious attacks. Here is a site listing most of them.
A List Of Fallacious Arguments
A List Of Fallacious Arguments
Yes, the Gospel is replete with the fact it is all of Christ. All of salvation is from God, every aspect so all the glory is due to him; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.
Yet, there is still the call to self-examination as well (2 Corinthians 13:5) and warnings to not be deceived. Whether or not one is truly converted is the concern and basis for these warnings. That said, we better be inspecting our own fruit, this Paul calls us to; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19ff, Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 6:1-8, and of the epistle's of John, Peter's epistles, warnings from Christ and other Scriptures from Paul.
We shouldn't mitigate sin in the professing believers life when it is a lifestyle and relegate it to "If they don't stop God will kill them." That's a terrible presumption to make and no person needs assured of conversion in such a state, they should speak to a pastor and take a close look at the transforming power of the Gospel unto all who are converted; 2 Corinthians 3:17ff. It could be that the person is not truly converted.
We are all fully aware of the arguments concerning the practice and or lifestyle of sin and typically it is stated something like this; "If you sin everyday then you're practicing sin too, so let's dismiss the warnings!" This excuse is used to curtail the solemn warnings and doesn't take into account the seriousness of the warnings, it is instead entirely dismissive.
Washing our feet daily due to falling short is not a lifestyle or practice of sin, and daily repentance, asking forgiveness to me is evidence of conversion; 1 John 1:8-10. Practice of sin is to set up shop to sin (1 John) it is the lifestyle of the person, and the topic needs needs further understanding and examination. 1 John 5:13 is written only to those who pass the tests of conversion throughout the epistle yet many are ruched to that verse, out of context, to assure them of salvation. It is not a proof text for believe-ism though that is how it is often misused. Telling a person they are guaranteed heaven at the moment they make a profession of faith is unfortunate, we do not know if that person is truly converted at all. Telling them "No matter what!" sends a signal to the unconverted and they will go on in sin and finally are found to be dogs or swine, not sheep; 2 Peter 2:22.
We should be aware that discipline from God is also evidence of conversion, and, that receiving no discipline shows the persons to be bastards, not sons. We should look at this as evidence as well, that is the sense of the warning and encouragement, unconverted or converted respectively.
There are plenty of professing believers who are not transformed, live and practice sin who are assured they are going to heaven when they die because at VBS or some other event they made a public profession of faith and it ended there.
Now, if a persons life is being transformed, there is now a love for God, for his Word, a repentant attitude toward sin, love of the brothers, transforming growth, obedience to Christ, cleansing from the guilt of sin, understanding and revelation of who Christ is &c then give all the glory to God for his salvation working in you!
Yet, there is still the call to self-examination as well (2 Corinthians 13:5) and warnings to not be deceived. Whether or not one is truly converted is the concern and basis for these warnings. That said, we better be inspecting our own fruit, this Paul calls us to; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19ff, Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 6:1-8, and of the epistle's of John, Peter's epistles, warnings from Christ and other Scriptures from Paul.
We shouldn't mitigate sin in the professing believers life when it is a lifestyle and relegate it to "If they don't stop God will kill them." That's a terrible presumption to make and no person needs assured of conversion in such a state, they should speak to a pastor and take a close look at the transforming power of the Gospel unto all who are converted; 2 Corinthians 3:17ff. It could be that the person is not truly converted.
We are all fully aware of the arguments concerning the practice and or lifestyle of sin and typically it is stated something like this; "If you sin everyday then you're practicing sin too, so let's dismiss the warnings!" This excuse is used to curtail the solemn warnings and doesn't take into account the seriousness of the warnings, it is instead entirely dismissive.
Washing our feet daily due to falling short is not a lifestyle or practice of sin, and daily repentance, asking forgiveness to me is evidence of conversion; 1 John 1:8-10. Practice of sin is to set up shop to sin (1 John) it is the lifestyle of the person, and the topic needs needs further understanding and examination. 1 John 5:13 is written only to those who pass the tests of conversion throughout the epistle yet many are ruched to that verse, out of context, to assure them of salvation. It is not a proof text for believe-ism though that is how it is often misused. Telling a person they are guaranteed heaven at the moment they make a profession of faith is unfortunate, we do not know if that person is truly converted at all. Telling them "No matter what!" sends a signal to the unconverted and they will go on in sin and finally are found to be dogs or swine, not sheep; 2 Peter 2:22.
We should be aware that discipline from God is also evidence of conversion, and, that receiving no discipline shows the persons to be bastards, not sons. We should look at this as evidence as well, that is the sense of the warning and encouragement, unconverted or converted respectively.
There are plenty of professing believers who are not transformed, live and practice sin who are assured they are going to heaven when they die because at VBS or some other event they made a public profession of faith and it ended there.
Now, if a persons life is being transformed, there is now a love for God, for his Word, a repentant attitude toward sin, love of the brothers, transforming growth, obedience to Christ, cleansing from the guilt of sin, understanding and revelation of who Christ is &c then give all the glory to God for his salvation working in you!
Good post, yes it is helpful!
Unfortunately lynx cannot see that what he does time to time is offer a drive-by shaming of others in finger pointing fashion.
He deems others as sinful who do what he also does himself. I suppose it makes us all feel better when we do this and don't take into account we just did it ourselves as well.
Unfortunately lynx cannot see that what he does time to time is offer a drive-by shaming of others in finger pointing fashion.
He deems others as sinful who do what he also does himself. I suppose it makes us all feel better when we do this and don't take into account we just did it ourselves as well.
Justification is instant. No works can earn it and that is why works has nothing to do with salvation. But sanctification does result in works, not our works but Christs works within. We can't do it without Christ but we need to allow Christ to do His will in us. Paul said he dies daily.
Can i have faith in Jesus be justified and not continue to have the sanctifing influence in me.
I know we all fail but if we are born again it will show in our works.
If i truly believed that Jesus was coming tomorrow my works would show it.
Can i have faith in Jesus be justified and not continue to have the sanctifing influence in me.
I know we all fail but if we are born again it will show in our works.
If i truly believed that Jesus was coming tomorrow my works would show it.
To "trust" something but not act upon it is a abstract thought, without reward or purpose. It is not until we act on that trust do we see the benefit of that trust. Example: A student may trust his parents check will cover his tuition bill, but unless he does the work of depositing the check he will not reap the benefit of that trust.
Believing that the gospel is simply believing the gospel is wrong. We must knock on that door and not just trust that the door will open. Knocking on the door is a work/effort but not one of merit. This is the error in your thinking. Jesus trusted the Father in all He did but to fulfill His ministry He had to be water baptized. There was no merit in submitting to be baptized by John but the act was necessary. Fight this if you wish but you are fighting the obvious.
Believing that the gospel is simply believing the gospel is wrong. We must knock on that door and not just trust that the door will open. Knocking on the door is a work/effort but not one of merit. This is the error in your thinking. Jesus trusted the Father in all He did but to fulfill His ministry He had to be water baptized. There was no merit in submitting to be baptized by John but the act was necessary. Fight this if you wish but you are fighting the obvious.
On the contrary, "faith alone" does not save, because faith alone does not exist, it is a dead faith, and you cannot be saved without having a true faith in God. Read the book of James . . .
Salvation is only by the grace of God working in a person's heart to produce a true deep faith in the death, and resurrection of His Son Jesus Christ.
Christ's faith was not even available to those OT saints.
Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Those OT saints had individual faith, but not Christ's faith. Their individual faith had to be demonstrated through their obedience. See Hebrews 11. But now that the faith of Christ has come, we are justified immediately upon believing the gospel.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
The believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith?
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Those OT saints had individual faith, but not Christ's faith. Their individual faith had to be demonstrated through their obedience. See Hebrews 11. But now that the faith of Christ has come, we are justified immediately upon believing the gospel.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
The believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith?
Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Yes, the Gospel is replete with the fact it is all of Christ. All of salvation is from God, every aspect so all the glory is due to him; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.
Yet, there is still the call to self-examination as well (2 Corinthians 13:5) and warnings to not be deceived. Whether or not one is truly converted is the concern and basis for these warnings. That said, we better be inspecting our own fruit, this Paul calls us to; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19ff, Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 6:1-8, and of the epistle's of John, Peter's epistles, warnings from Christ and other Scriptures from Paul.
We shouldn't mitigate sin in the professing believers life when it is a lifestyle and relegate it to "If they don't stop God will kill them." That's a terrible presumption to make and no person needs assured of conversion in such a state, they should speak to a pastor and take a close look at the transforming power of the Gospel unto all who are converted; 2 Corinthians 3:17ff. It could be that the person is not truly converted.
We are all fully aware of the arguments concerning the practice and or lifestyle of sin and typically it is stated something like this; "If you sin everyday then you're practicing sin too, so let's dismiss the warnings!" This excuse is used to curtail the solemn warnings and doesn't take into account the seriousness of the warnings, it is instead entirely dismissive.
Washing our feet daily due to falling short is not a lifestyle or practice of sin, and daily repentance, asking forgiveness to me is evidence of conversion; 1 John 1:8-10. Practice of sin is to set up shop to sin (1 John) it is the lifestyle of the person, and the topic needs needs further understanding and examination. 1 John 5:13 is written only to those who pass the tests of conversion throughout the epistle yet many are ruched to that verse, out of context, to assure them of salvation. It is not a proof text for believe-ism though that is how it is often misused. Telling a person they are guaranteed heaven at the moment they make a profession of faith is unfortunate, we do not know if that person is truly converted at all. Telling them "No matter what!" sends a signal to the unconverted and they will go on in sin and finally are found to be dogs or swine, not sheep; 2 Peter 2:22.
We should be aware that discipline from God is also evidence of conversion, and, that receiving no discipline shows the persons to be bastards, not sons. We should look at this as evidence as well, that is the sense of the warning and encouragement, unconverted or converted respectively.
There are plenty of professing believers who are not transformed, live and practice sin who are assured they are going to heaven when they die because at VBS or some other event they made a public profession of faith and it ended there.
Now, if a persons life is being transformed, there is now a love for God, for his Word, a repentant attitude toward sin, love of the brothers, transforming growth, obedience to Christ, cleansing from the guilt of sin, understanding and revelation of who Christ is &c then give all the glory to God for his salvation working in you!
Yet, there is still the call to self-examination as well (2 Corinthians 13:5) and warnings to not be deceived. Whether or not one is truly converted is the concern and basis for these warnings. That said, we better be inspecting our own fruit, this Paul calls us to; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19ff, Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 6:1-8, and of the epistle's of John, Peter's epistles, warnings from Christ and other Scriptures from Paul.
We shouldn't mitigate sin in the professing believers life when it is a lifestyle and relegate it to "If they don't stop God will kill them." That's a terrible presumption to make and no person needs assured of conversion in such a state, they should speak to a pastor and take a close look at the transforming power of the Gospel unto all who are converted; 2 Corinthians 3:17ff. It could be that the person is not truly converted.
We are all fully aware of the arguments concerning the practice and or lifestyle of sin and typically it is stated something like this; "If you sin everyday then you're practicing sin too, so let's dismiss the warnings!" This excuse is used to curtail the solemn warnings and doesn't take into account the seriousness of the warnings, it is instead entirely dismissive.
Washing our feet daily due to falling short is not a lifestyle or practice of sin, and daily repentance, asking forgiveness to me is evidence of conversion; 1 John 1:8-10. Practice of sin is to set up shop to sin (1 John) it is the lifestyle of the person, and the topic needs needs further understanding and examination. 1 John 5:13 is written only to those who pass the tests of conversion throughout the epistle yet many are ruched to that verse, out of context, to assure them of salvation. It is not a proof text for believe-ism though that is how it is often misused. Telling a person they are guaranteed heaven at the moment they make a profession of faith is unfortunate, we do not know if that person is truly converted at all. Telling them "No matter what!" sends a signal to the unconverted and they will go on in sin and finally are found to be dogs or swine, not sheep; 2 Peter 2:22.
We should be aware that discipline from God is also evidence of conversion, and, that receiving no discipline shows the persons to be bastards, not sons. We should look at this as evidence as well, that is the sense of the warning and encouragement, unconverted or converted respectively.
There are plenty of professing believers who are not transformed, live and practice sin who are assured they are going to heaven when they die because at VBS or some other event they made a public profession of faith and it ended there.
Now, if a persons life is being transformed, there is now a love for God, for his Word, a repentant attitude toward sin, love of the brothers, transforming growth, obedience to Christ, cleansing from the guilt of sin, understanding and revelation of who Christ is &c then give all the glory to God for his salvation working in you!
I actually DO believe some self examination is appropriate, but there is a danger even in that to be tripped up by our adversary. Example:
Good list at any given time:
Faithfulness - check
Goodness - check
Kindness - check
Love - check
Self control - hmm. have to get back to you on that one
Peace - Check, er most of the time
Joy - Not always feeling it
Longsuffering - well, I still post here! check!
Gentleness - check, mostly
Now the bad list:
Oooh, I've had a few outbursts of wrath, dissensions, contentions, and maybe a couple of others on that list. Now you can say yeah but your'e not living in them or making a practice of them, and that may be true, and we should be taking stock of ourselves to see if we're moving further away from them. But the danger, especially for the baby Christian, is listening to the enemy say, "you call yourself HIS, look at all the things you do, AND DON'T DO, that PROVES you are NOT HIS!"
This is how he attempts to STEAL our fruit, our joy, our peace, etc... It also makes us extremely ineffective in bringing others to Christ. THAT is our enemies goal. To demoralize you so you will be so sin focused that you will not share the Gospel to the lost.
This is why walking in the Spirit is focusing on Christ, His love for us, what He has done for us and to us, His Word, THEN the Fruits of the Holy Spirit will manifest themselves.
Now all of this is NOT to say we shouldn't follow the Biblically appropriate steps to bring a brother out of obvious sin. We see a brother getting drunk regularly, fooling with porn, always getting angry or causing dissension, etc.. we should follow the Bible's prescription in restoring him to proper fellowship. If he he is a brother and responds well, great! If he is a brother and doesn't then we are deliver him over for the destruction of his flesh, which I take to mean have nothing left to do with him until the Lord finishes disciplining him, possibly using the enemy to that.
1 Corinthians 13. We should start, and finish our day with that chapter.