Not By Works

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#41
How much work does one need to have before they can be saved? None!

How much work does one need to keep salvation? Wrong question - works is not what keeps you saved!

so how much work does one need to have before he is saved, or to keep salvation?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#42
You guys talk as if works are totally obsolete and irrelevant.. there not
as far as BEING saved, They are, No amount of work could ever save us from ONE sin, let alones the millions we are guilty off.

As far as producing fruit, Your right,

but something tells me your not talking about that.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#43
Teaching grace only, misleads.. that's all I'm combating
No this is wrong,

Teaching WORKS misleads. Because it states one can make it to heaven on his own merit, and works and grace are not something you can mix.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#45
Actually the true teaching of the grace of God is the only thing that teaches us how to deny ungodliness in this present world. Titus 2:11-12

We are to be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim. 2:1

It is grace that gives us the inheritance that is ours in Christ and is able to build us up.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.


The only way we are saved is by the grace of God.

Acts 15:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

We are to fix our hope completely on the grace that is brought to us at the revelation of Christ.


1 Peter 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 
Mar 14, 2011
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#46
That is misleading, Post 35 is not where you said it.

Post 19..

Originally Posted by HisHolly

You throw out grace like its the subject.. you can count and hope if you want... Faith and walking with Christ produces .. if you have nothing you're doing nothing but reading.. hearer only
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#48

we have had this discussion before. Unless she somehow changed her thinking.. Yes, I am prety sure..(she alwyas gets on me in this subject)

But then again, I could be wrong,, no one is perfect.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,108
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#49
No this is wrong,

Teaching WORKS misleads. Because it states one can make it to heaven on his own merit, and works and grace are not something you can mix.
Ah, here we go -- now it becomes clear! (To me at least :)

Paul taught both grace and he also taught works. (not works as a means to salvation!)

Ephesians 1-3 give a solid explanation of God's grace. Ephesians 4-6 give a solid explanation of works. When rightly understood and rightly taught they do not contradict.

But I don't agree that "teaching works misleads"! Paul taught works!

I do agree that teaching works in a wrong way misleads.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#50

Yes you can throw out works. Unless you think God can not know our faith, God does not need proof, We may, But God does not.
This is an interesting point.

In life I have convinced myself I take a particular view on something.
What I have discovered until I actually do something which corresponds to that view, it
is just a view.

So Abraham believed God about his heirs, but this was only proved true when he offered
Issac to be sacrificed.

So saying God does not need proof I think is wrong. Nothing is true until proved.
So many times people appear good friends, but only in hard times do you know who was
really a friend and who was not.

Who loves there brother or sister? Someone who wishes someone well or someone who
actually helps them?

So we can never separate works and salvation, they are the different sides of the same
coin.

The difference here between the groups is should be do good works no matter what,
on analyse why we do them? I hold we should do them whatever.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#51
Teaching grace only leads to the assumption that folks can do whatever... I've seen it.. #35, you must have a visual if you want to know where you actually stand... Have you heard the true gospel... I never said works save.. I quoted AB believed first.. your something that's telling you, is in your head and it's self-righteousness, pride, to proud to be wrong.. in that you don't take time to understand so you keep your argument going
No this is wrong,

Teaching WORKS misleads. Because it states one can make it to heaven on his own merit, and works and grace are not something you can mix.
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,979
1,325
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#52
Ah, here we go -- now it becomes clear! (To me at least :)

Paul taught both grace and he also taught works. (not works as a means to salvation!)

Ephesians 1-3 give a solid explanation of God's grace. Ephesians 4-6 give a solid explanation of works. When rightly understood and rightly taught they do not contradict.

But I don't agree that "teaching works misleads"! Paul taught works!

I do agree that teaching works in a wrong way misleads.

We are talking about salvation. NOT WHAT ONE DOES AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.

try to keep it in context. ok?

Teaching works as it relates to salvation is miselading, and will lead peopel away from Christ.

it is of works, not grace, otherwise grace is no longer grace, those are pauls words.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,108
134
63
#53

we have had this discussion before. Unless she somehow changed her thinking.. Yes, I am prety sure..(she alwyas gets on me in this subject)

But then again, I could be wrong,, no one is perfect.
Ah! EG - I like you and your attitude!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#54
Teaching grace only leads to the assumption that folks can do whatever...
Nope. If one thinks they can live however they want, they have not repented.

I've seen it.. #35, you must have a visual if you want to know where you actually stand...
So we must rely on our work, not Gods promise. THAT Is dangerous. How can one ever have HOPE if they are relying on self?

Have you heard the true gospel... I never said works save.. I quoted AB believed first.. your something that's telling you, is in your head and it's self-righteousness, pride, to proud to be wrong.. in that you don't take time to understand so you keep your argument going
Yes I have heard the true gospel.

Saved by FAITH NOT WORKS..lest anyone should boast.

Not by works of righteousness WHICH I DID, but By Gods mercy.


Have you heard the true gospel?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
12,706
527
113
#55
Works will never be anyone's salvation. We are saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Once we are on the Way, if we are without righteous works, we do not have living faith, for faith without
works is dead.

Our zeal by the Holy Spirit after havinng received Him within will not allow any who have
received the gift of faith to be still.

When we experience the joy of the infilling of the Holy Spirit pthere are definite indications. Righteous works given us by God, Himself, obedience as best possible, and constant learning in study of the Word in prayer and meditation.

How will any receive reward in the Kingsom without any works to show for that gift of faith. Faith is likeened unto gold int eh Word. I believe our faith is gold to our Father......we must increase its interest, right?


It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#56
Did I comment to you first? I'd have to look back.. if so, I didn't realize you feel as though I target you

we have had this discussion before. Unless she somehow changed her thinking.. Yes, I am prety sure..(she alwyas gets on me in this subject)

But then again, I could be wrong,, no one is perfect.
 
Mar 14, 2011
52,979
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#57
Teaching grace only leads to the assumption that folks can do whatever... I've seen it.. #35, you must have a visual if you want to know where you actually stand... Have you heard the true gospel... I never said works save.. I quoted AB believed first.. your something that's telling you, is in your head and it's self-righteousness, pride, to proud to be wrong.. in that you don't take time to understand so you keep your argument going
ps. Teaching grace PLUS works teaches and leads to phariseeism, religion and legalism. (I know, I grew up in this false hope)


A child of God walks by faith, not site, He produces works because he is a new creature, not to keep salvation. He needs to be taught to trust in God, not to go out and do works.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#58
Actually the true teaching of the grace of God is the only thing that teaches us how to deny ungodliness in this present world. Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
Titus 2:11-14

We are to live self-controlled, upright, godly lives, Amen.
Jesus redeems us from all wickedness and purifies us, Amen.

So why is there such disagreement about living righteously.

The subtext is you cannot live a godly life or be purified, all is
actually defiled and those who claim they can are hypocrites.

So scripture is defied and we are attacked. What a deceptive approach.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#59
I speak generally.. I wasn't asking you if you have... It how I talk
Nope. If one thinks they can live however they want, they have not repented.



So we must rely on our work, not Gods promise. THAT Is dangerous. How can one ever have HOPE if they are relying on self?



Yes I have heard the true gospel.

Saved by FAITH NOT WORKS..lest anyone should boast.

Not by works of righteousness WHICH I DID, but By Gods mercy.


Have you heard the true gospel?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#60
Did I comment to you first? I'd have to look back.. if so, I didn't realize you feel as though I target you

Every time I teach salvation is by faith alone, not works, You seem to come after me.. How else should I feel? and what else would this make me think? Other than you treach we are saved by works..


Not to mention, you always seem to be defending the ones who PURELY teach that in CC.. (they are not teaching just a child of God should show works, they are teaching their salvation depends on it)

if you are not, then please forgive me, I have been wrong, and accused you falsely.